Revisiting the Derrick White to Boston trade

[WaltFrazier]

In 2019 there were four strong teams in the East. Raptors Bucks Sixers Celtics. The Raps have fallen the farthest since then by far. The other 3 have remained contenders every year since, with minor ups and downs, by making decisive moves. Stars like Jrue, Kyrie, Harden, have moved among them, Lillard added, Horford played for Boston Philly Boston, Brogdon, Porzingas, several others.

Yes we had the disadvantage of Kawhi walking, but those three teams have left us in the dust and remained contenders these 5 years by making moves while we have stagnated and done little except draft Scottie.

The Heat have been better managed than any of these teams. They took the guy the 76ers didn't want and the guy the Raptors and 76ers didn't want to pay, and build a better team. This is without any high picks at all and consistently mortgaging their own draft capital.

Yeah, yet another team whose front office runs circles around ours

[ATLTimekeeper]

There’s been a lot of revisionist history about the Derrick White trade. Simply put Boston got him for Josh Richardson who still had another year left on his deal, Romeo Langford who really hadn’t shown anything, a first in the 20’s and a pick swap (which don’t convey 60% of the time).

I’m comparison if you look at the two trades we did with San Antonio in totality we traded Khem Birch, Goran Dragic on an expiring contract, a first round pick in the 20’s, what will most likely be a lottery pick, 2 second round picks for Jakob Poeltl, Thad Young, Drew Ebanks and Christian Koloko. 2 guys who don’t play, one we cut and one we can’t play in the 4th.

I’m sorry but the idea that the Celtics overpaid for one of the best defensive guards in the league while we absolutely didn’t get worked twice by the Spurs doesn’t pass the sniff test.

The pick swap is like #1 protected, so while it may not convey it could be the #2 overall pick. That's a lot of value for a guy that's a 5th starter on any team.

One of the guys we don't play has some sort of lung condition, which is why they don't play him. Talk about revisionist history.

[Los_29]

In 2019 there were four strong teams in the East. Raptors Bucks Sixers Celtics. The Raps have fallen the farthest since then by far. The other 3 have remained contenders every year since, with minor ups and downs, by making decisive moves. Stars like Jrue, Kyrie, Harden, have moved among them, Lillard added, Horford played for Boston Philly Boston, Brogdon, Porzingas, several others.

Yes we had the disadvantage of Kawhi walking, but those three teams have left us in the dust and remained contenders these 5 years by making moves while we have stagnated and done little except draft Scottie.

The Heat have been better managed than any of these teams. They took the guy the 76ers didn't want and the guy the Raptors and 76ers didn't want to pay, and build a better team. This is without any high picks at all and consistently mortgaging their own draft capital.

Yeah, yet another team whose front office runs circles around ours

From about 2015-2019 they didn’t though. The Heat were a treadmill team that fumbled some important picks (one of whom is on our Raptors 905 team). They also failed to develop much talent during that span.

Let’s hope this FO can right the ship. It starts with having draft picks so they can get back to what made them so good. That’s why that Poeltl trade stings. Kind of a lost season with no pick coming up.

[Wise80]

Yeah.. they gave up a recent lottery pick (Langford), a good rotation player (Richardson), a late 2022 first, and a 2028 first that could really end up anywhere as who knows what Boston looks like 5 seasons from now.

But hey - we better be outraged we did not make this trade.

Imagine if we traded Dick, Trent, a late 2024 first (that obv. we dont have) and a 2030 1st for a guy like Tyus Jones or someone putting up decent #'s on a bad team (like SAS was) It is tough to find a good compareable, but Derrick White was not some "cant miss" player who was available.

Seems like maybe being in the Finals, then conference final, and now the best team in the NBA in White's three seasons, may have been worth the cost.

It's almost like you should make a trade when it makes sense, not 3 years later in a bout of desperation.

The stretching of what we'd have to give up so that we can defend management is crazy.

Langford did nothing for 3 years. He is not equivalent to Dick. Maybe in 3 years and Dick has proven to be a 10th man, then sure. Trent at that time was worth more than Richardson. The first was a first and I'm pretty sure they didn't give up anther pick, it was a pick swap.

Management has sucked for years now and everything they do they have missed on except for Barnes. It's ok to admit that.

[WaltFrazier]

The Heat have been better managed than any of these teams. They took the guy the 76ers didn't want and the guy the Raptors and 76ers didn't want to pay, and build a better team. This is without any high picks at all and consistently mortgaging their own draft capital.

Yeah, yet another team whose front office runs circles around ours

From about 2015-2019 they didn’t though. The Heat were a treadmill team that fumbled some important picks (one of whom is on our Raptors 905 team). They also failed to develop much talent during that span.

Let’s hope this FO can right the ship. It starts with having draft picks so they can get back to what made them so good. That’s why that Poeltl trade stings. Kind of a lost season with no pick coming up.

Right, the draft can save us.
How much less of a lost season would this be if Gradey was playable, and shooting well? Or better, if we'd drafted Jaquez or Podziemski.

[pingpongrac]

There’s been a lot of revisionist history about the Derrick White trade. Simply put Boston got him for Josh Richardson who still had another year left on his deal, Romeo Langford who really hadn’t shown anything, a first in the 20’s and a pick swap (which don’t convey 60% of the time).

I’m comparison if you look at the two trades we did with San Antonio in totality we traded Khem Birch, Goran Dragic on an expiring contract, a first round pick in the 20’s, what will most likely be a lottery pick, 2 second round picks for Jakob Poeltl, Thad Young, Drew Ebanks and Christian Koloko. 2 guys who don’t play, one we cut and one we can’t play in the 4th.

I’m sorry but the idea that the Celtics overpaid for one of the best defensive guards in the league while we absolutely didn’t get worked twice by the Spurs doesn’t pass the sniff test.

You're being incredibly disingenuous with this post too though.

1. Pick swaps do convey quite frequently. Especially considering that five years is a long time in the NBA and Boston has been spending like crazy the last few seasons. Next year they have 130M+ locked up with 4 players (and potentially ~170M with their starters if Holiday opts into his last year) while Tatum is due for a supermax in the following offseason, which leads me to believe they have some tough decisions to make over the next 18 months. With that in mind – as well as the fact that the Spurs just drafted what looks to be a generational talent in Wemby if he stays healthy – it is very possible that the Spurs are better than the Celtics by the 27/28 season.

2. You are comparing one trade (the White trade) to TWO separate trades we made with the Spurs over a 12-month span. Obviously it is going to look significantly worse when you fudge the numbers like that lol.

3. One of the guys that doesn't play for us has literally been dealing with health issues. Koloko was impactful in his rookie season and he still has potential assuming he does get back on the court.

[Pointgod]

There’s been a lot of revisionist history about the Derrick White trade. Simply put Boston got him for Josh Richardson who still had another year left on his deal, Romeo Langford who really hadn’t shown anything, a first in the 20’s and a pick swap (which don’t convey 60% of the time).

I’m comparison if you look at the two trades we did with San Antonio in totality we traded Khem Birch, Goran Dragic on an expiring contract, a first round pick in the 20’s, what will most likely be a lottery pick, 2 second round picks for Jakob Poeltl, Thad Young, Drew Ebanks and Christian Koloko. 2 guys who don’t play, one we cut and one we can’t play in the 4th.

I’m sorry but the idea that the Celtics overpaid for one of the best defensive guards in the league while we absolutely didn’t get worked twice by the Spurs doesn’t pass the sniff test.

The pick swap is like #1 protected, so while it may not convey it could be the #2 overall pick. That's a lot of value for a guy that's a 5th starter on any team.

One of the guys we don't play has some sort of lung condition, which is why they don't play him. Talk about revisionist history.

Tatum is 25. In 4 years he’ll still be in his prime. Also the Celtics have no incentive to be bad 4 years down the road and the Spurs will most likely either be a bad team or a breaking into the playoffs. We’re talking about at best a swap of picks in the 20’s.

And yes Koloko is unplayable because of his lung issues, you just can’t ignore the reality of the trade. There’s no way the front office could anticipate that but it’s still the reality. Either way trading an expiring contract and a first for a second and a guy that was literally unplayable is just bad asset management.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Tatum is 25. In 4 years he’ll still be in his prime. Also the Celtics have no incentive to be bad 4 years down the road and the Spurs will most likely either be a bad team or a breaking into the playoffs. We’re talking about at best a swap of picks in the 20’s.

They could still be bad, which is the point. It's a long way away. We're not talking about anything at best.

And yes Koloko is unplayable because of his lung issues, you just can’t ignore the reality of the trade. There’s no way the front office could anticipate that but it’s still the reality. Either way trading an expiring contract and a first for a second and a guy that was literally unplayable is just bad asset management.

So now we're talking about the reality? You're trying to argue from many places here.

[WaltFrazier]

Jack just said, what a great trade that was. A "steal".

End of discussion

[sca]

There’s been a lot of revisionist history about the Derrick White trade. Simply put Boston got him for Josh Richardson who still had another year left on his deal, Romeo Langford who really hadn’t shown anything, a first in the 20’s and a pick swap (which don’t convey 60% of the time).

I’m comparison if you look at the two trades we did with San Antonio in totality we traded Khem Birch, Goran Dragic on an expiring contract, a first round pick in the 20’s, what will most likely be a lottery pick, 2 second round picks for Jakob Poeltl, Thad Young, Drew Ebanks and Christian Koloko. 2 guys who don’t play, one we cut and one we can’t play in the 4th.

I’m sorry but the idea that the Celtics overpaid for one of the best defensive guards in the league while we absolutely didn’t get worked twice by the Spurs doesn’t pass the sniff test.

The pick swap is like #1 protected, so while it may not convey it could be the #2 overall pick. That's a lot of value for a guy that's a 5th starter on any team.

One of the guys we don't play has some sort of lung condition, which is why they don't play him. Talk about revisionist history.

5th starter on any team? Are you serious? If we had White he’d easily be our third best player right now. He’d be the second best player on some teams.

[sca]

There’s been a lot of revisionist history about the Derrick White trade. Simply put Boston got him for Josh Richardson who still had another year left on his deal, Romeo Langford who really hadn’t shown anything, a first in the 20’s and a pick swap (which don’t convey 60% of the time).

I’m comparison if you look at the two trades we did with San Antonio in totality we traded Khem Birch, Goran Dragic on an expiring contract, a first round pick in the 20’s, what will most likely be a lottery pick, 2 second round picks for Jakob Poeltl, Thad Young, Drew Ebanks and Christian Koloko. 2 guys who don’t play, one we cut and one we can’t play in the 4th.

I’m sorry but the idea that the Celtics overpaid for one of the best defensive guards in the league while we absolutely didn’t get worked twice by the Spurs doesn’t pass the sniff test.

You're being incredibly disingenuous with this post too though.

1. Pick swaps do convey quite frequently. Especially considering that five years is a long time in the NBA and Boston has been spending like crazy the last few seasons. Next year they have 130M+ locked up with 4 players (and potentially ~170M with their starters if Holiday opts into his last year) while Tatum is due for a supermax in the following offseason, which leads me to believe they have some tough decisions to make over the next 18 months. With that in mind – as well as the fact that the Spurs just drafted what looks to be a generational talent in Wemby if he stays healthy – it is very possible that the Spurs are better than the Celtics by the 27/28 season.

2. You are comparing one trade (the White trade) to TWO separate trades we made with the Spurs over a 12-month span. Obviously it is going to look significantly worse when you fudge the numbers like that lol.

3. One of the guys that doesn't play for us has literally been dealing with health issues. Koloko was impactful in his rookie season and he still has potential assuming he does get back on the court.

1. Pick swaps do not convey very frequently. Even if they do, they mostly have very little value.

Source: https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nba/2022/10/12/23399637/nba-draft-swap-picks

2. I’m sorry but what is even your argument here? It doesn’t matter if we made two, three or ten seperate trades. The point remains that our return of investment is very little compared to the Celtics, with similar capital.

3. The only reason Koloko shined last year was that he was the only center on the damn roster to start the season. He was mediocre through the year. Even if he was healthy, the trade was a huge loss.