Official Trade Thread Part XLV

[9 and 20]

Kuzma to Detroit. Solid mentor, wouldn't block anyone, locked up for a few years, grew up in Michigan. What would they need to send back? Probably not Ivey but draft picks would be good.

[Frichuela]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=GWeuz7j_sc5cBYZzdD92Tw

Trade proposal from an Orlando fan…got quite a bit of traction on Twitter

From my perspective, Orlando would have to add another 1st rounder such as the Milwaukee 2025 1st.

[nate33]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=GWeuz7j_sc5cBYZzdD92Tw

Trade proposal from an Orlando fan…got quite a bit of traction on Twitter

From my perspective, Orlando would have to add another 1st rounder such as the Milwaukee 2025 1st.

Yeah, they just casually slipped Kispert in there as if he was a throw in.

I think Tyus for Fultz plus incentive is a good starting point for a trade. I'd prefer the incentive be the Orlando 2024 pick, but maybe I'd be talked into the incentive being the 2025 Denver pick they are owed. If they want to include a Kispert for Okeke swap they'd need to include both picks and remove the lotto protection from the 2024 ORL pick. So it would be:

Washington trades:
Tyus
Kispert

Orlando trades:
Fultz
Okeke
ORL 2024 1st (top 4 protection)
DEN 2025 1st

[nate33]

Kuzma to Detroit. Solid mentor, wouldn't block anyone, locked up for a few years, grew up in Michigan. What would they need to send back? Probably not Ivey but draft picks would be good.

I can't imagine Detroit sending draft picks back in any trade. With their incompetence, that's a very high risk.

Ivey would probably be the guy they send out. Or maybe they send out Isaiah Stewart, though I don't think that's enough. I like Stewart, but I'm not sure he is more than a 7th man on a good team.

I think Detroit ought to consider trading Cade for Markkanen. If they did that and then followed up by drafting Topic this summer, their lineup would make a ton more sense going forward:

PG Topic/Sasser
SG Ivey
SF Ausar
PF Markkanen/Stewart
C Duren/Bagley

Then spend a little money in free agency on wing shooters like Isaiah Joe.

[Endless Loop]

How is it that Detroit is SO bad, what with
#5 pick in 2022 (Ivey)
#12 pick in 2022 (Duren)
#1 in 2021 (Cunningham)
#5 in 2023 (Thompson)

All coached by the 2021-22 NBA coach of the year

It's not that they are bad, they are historically bad. They team just tied for the WORST EVER single season losing streak.

[nate33]

How is it that Detroit is SO bad, what with
#5 pick in 2022 (Ivey)
#12 pick in 2022 (Duren)
#1 in 2021 (Cunningham)
#5 in 2023 (Thompson)

All coached by the 2021-22 NBA coach of the year

It's not that they are bad, they are historically bad. They team just tied for the WORST EVER single season losing streak.

What's interesting is that, if you look into their history, it's hard to pinpoint anything they did egregiously wrong.

Yeah, they failed to draft Haliburton in 2020 like everyone else (drafting Killian Hayes at #7 instead) but lots of teams made that same mistake. Hayes was a bad pick, but that's right where the draft got pretty tough. The next 3 guys selected were Toppin, Avdija and Jalen Smith. The only real good players among the next 10 guys selected were Haliburton and Vassell.

In 2021, they took the consensus #1 pick in Cunningham. You can't hammer them for that.

In 2022, they took Ivey, who was mocked to go right around there anyhow. They could have taken Mathurin, Sharpe or Daniels, but it wasn't obvious. All those guys were high upside gambles with serious downside potential as well. And the moves they made later in the lottery to land Duren with the #12 pick were actually very commendable.

And their pick in 2023, Ausar Thompson, might be one of the better picks in the draft. The problem is that he is a horrible fit on a team lacking in shooting.

The only obvious mistake they have made was in not trading Bogdanovic last Trade Deadline when there was a lot of interest.

[NatP4]

It’s far more than that. They picked guys like Doumbouya, Kennard, Ellenson, and Stanley Johnson.

Terrible drafting for a decade.

Cunningham and Ivey were two of the most overrated prospects of all time. Suggs and Murray alongside Ausar Thompson, would be a solid starting point for a rebuild.

[WallToWall]

I do think Gafford fetches a 1st rnd pick. Serviceable Bigs, on good contracts, who also provide an above average defensive presence, and shoot 70%, are hard to come by.

Name the team that would give up a FRP for him.

1. The Suns could remove the swap condition for their 2026 pick. They are obviously going all in wiht Beal, and Durant, etc.
2. The Nets
3. The Hornets, They have Williams.
4. Dallas has an old Powell, and Holmes. Lively.
5. Knicks have Robinson...and plenty of 2024 rnd 1 picks. Chump change for them.
6. Griz have old Adams, Biyombo. You never know what they're thinking.
7. Clippers dont have any picks but they are in win now mode. So maybe trade for other player(s) who can get a 1st rnd pick.

[nate33]

I do think Gafford fetches a 1st rnd pick. Serviceable Bigs, on good contracts, who also provide an above average defensive presence, and shoot 70%, are hard to come by.

Name the team that would give up a FRP for him.

1. The Suns could remove the swap condition for their 2026 pick. They are obviously going all in wiht Beal, and Durant, etc.

Not sure what you mean by this. The already owe their 2025 and 2027 pick so they can't eliminate the swap condition on 2026. The Stephen Rule says they can't trade away consecutive future FRP's.

2. The Nets
3. The Hornets, They have Williams.
4. Dallas has an old Powell, and Holmes. Lively.
5. Knicks have Robinson...and plenty of 2024 rnd 1 picks. Chump change for them.
6. Griz have old Adams, Biyombo. You never know what they're thinking.
7. Clippers dont have any picks but they are in win now mode. So maybe trade for other player(s) who can get a 1st rnd pick.

Nobody is giving up a FRP and paying $13M a year to have Gafford come off the bench for 16 minutes a night. If someone trades for Gafford, it will be to start him. And any pick for Gafford would have to be a late pick. Nobody is trading a lotto pick for him.

The Nets have Claxton to start. They're not trading a first for Gafford to play 16 minutes a night.
The Hornets will pick too high to trade that pick for Gafford. And it's unclear if Gafford would start over Williams.
Dallas won't see Gafford as enough of an upgrade over Lively to give up a first.
The Grizzlies have Adams and JJJ, as well as Tillman. A guy like Gafford wouldn't play enough to justify giving up a first.
The Clippers have no picks and Gafford wouldn't play many minutes behind Zubac.

The only team that might consider it is the Knicks. But even that is dicey. With Gafford on the payroll, they'd have a hard time retaining both Hartenstein and Quickley in the offseason. So effectively, they're trading both Hartenstein AND a first for Gafford. The one trade that intrigues me (and I proposed on the Trade Board) is Gafford for Mitchell Robinson. They're the same age and have the same contract. The logic here is that although Gafford isn't as good, at least he is available for all 3 remaining seasons of his contract whereas Robinson is only available for 2 of them.

[tleikheen]

Would a Tim Hardaway Jr 17.8 mil .Dwight Powell 4 mil, Jaden Hardy 1.7 mil, OMax Prosper 2.7 mil for Kyle Kuzma peak the interest of Wizard fans

Hardaway a 6 th man candidate has trade value ,Hardy and Prosper two 21 yr olds with enormous upside and Powell just trade fodder

[nate33]

Would a Tim Hardaway Jr 17.8 mil .Dwight Powell 4 mil, Jaden Hardy 1.7 mil, OMax Prosper 2.7 mil for Kyle Kuzma peak the interest of Wizard fans

Hardaway a 6 th man candidate has trade value ,Hardy and Prosper two 21 yr olds with enormous upside and Powell just trade fodder

Not at all. Hardaway has no trade value. At best, he is neutral value salary filler. So this is just a trade of Kuzma for Hardy and Prosper.

Hardy was a SRP in 2022 and hasn't done anything in this league except miss a ton of shots. His TS% is .467. He has less value than a future SRP. If we want Hardy, I'd just wait until Summer 2025 when he is a free agent. He'll be available.

Prosper is the only thing in this trade representing value - and that's only because he was a 2023 FRP. So far, he has done nothing to show he has value, but you don't write of a draft pick after just 186 minutes of garbage time. But still, I definitely wouldn't trade Kuzma for an unremarkable rookie who has done nothing whatsoever halfway through his first season.

[pcbothwel]

Prosper is the only thing in this trade representing value - and that's only because he was a 2023 FRP. So far, he has done nothing to show he has value, but you don't write of a draft pick after just 186 minutes of garbage time. But still, I definitely wouldn't trade Kuzma for an unremarkable rookie who has done nothing whatsoever halfway through his first season.

To double down nate... Prosper was unremarkable in 3 years of college ball as well. Had moments of being a dominant scorer against North Carolina Central and Long Island University, but otherwise showed terrible IQ metrics (Doesnt pass AT ALL, rebound, team defense, etc.)

[payitforward]

Agree with both of nate & pcbothwei: why would we want any of the 4 players (!) we're supposed to absorb in this trade. & who would we be waiving from the resulting 18-player roster?

[Frichuela]

Looking at the Memphis Grizzlies it seems that Santi Aldama can not crack more than low 20s in MPGs. I wonder if a Kispert for Aldama trade would be a possibility…

Memphis is dead last in the NBA in 3PT % so they may have an interest in Kispert. For the Wiz, Aldama would be the PF of the future who can slide to C in a pinch.

[Frichuela]

Looking at the Memphis Grizzlies it seems that Santi Aldama can not crack more than low 20s in MPGs. I wonder if a Kispert for Aldama trade would be a possibility…

Memphis is dead last in the NBA in 3PT % so they may have an interest in Kispert. For the Wiz, Aldama would be the PF of the future who can slide to C in a pinch.

Obviously this would be combined with a Kuzma trade where we get the best possible draft capital. Indiana and OKC would be ideal trade partners. Both have plenty of draft capital to trade and need a PF.

[nate33]

Looking at the Memphis Grizzlies it seems that Santi Aldama can not crack more than low 20s in MPGs. I wonder if a Kispert for Aldama trade would be a possibility…

Memphis is dead last in the NBA in 3PT % so they may have an interest in Kispert. For the Wiz, Aldama would be the PF of the future who can slide to C in a pinch.

That's an interesting idea. I'd probably do it. Both guys are useful role players off the bench, but Aldama seems to have more upside with his 6-11 frame and the fact that he is 2 full years younger than Kispert. They came out of the same draft and have essentially the same rookie contracts so there are no cap ramifications. Memphis might prefer to wait until the offseason to make the move though. Next year, they'll get back both Adams and Clarke.

It would be a shame to lose Kispert, but he seems to have plateaued this season. He's a solid role player, but I just don't see him making another leap and becoming a full-time starter. He just can't hold up defensively.

Aldama has starter potential. European big men tend to develop a bit later into their career, often having a second surge of improvement around age 25-26 (Adama is about to turn 23). Go look at the career arc of guys like Pau Gasol, Markkanen, Sabonis, Gallinari, Marc Gasol, Jokic, Valanciunas, Porzingis, Mo Wagner, Zubac. etc. I'd take that gamble on Aldama.

I'd do the move even if we don't come up with a Kuzma trade at the same time. I'm fine with Kuzma and Aldama splitting the PF minutes, with Aldama sliding over to center for stretches. It would mean less PF minutes for Avdija, which is okay with me because I think he is better at SF. With Kispert gone, there'd be no shortage of minutes available for Coulibaly.

[J-Ves]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=GWeuz7j_sc5cBYZzdD92Tw

Trade proposal from an Orlando fan…got quite a bit of traction on Twitter

From my perspective, Orlando would have to add another 1st rounder such as the Milwaukee 2025 1st.

I’d shop around but if that was the best we could do I’d pull the trigger

[nate33]

I’d shop around but if that was the best we could do I’d pull the trigger

No way. Not when that Orlando pick projects to be merely the 21st pick in the draft.

[pcbothwel]

Looking at the Memphis Grizzlies it seems that Santi Aldama can not crack more than low 20s in MPGs. I wonder if a Kispert for Aldama trade would be a possibility…

Memphis is dead last in the NBA in 3PT % so they may have an interest in Kispert. For the Wiz, Aldama would be the PF of the future who can slide to C in a pinch.

That's an interesting idea. I'd probably do it. Both guys are useful role players off the bench, but Aldama seems to have more upside with his 6-11 frame and the fact that he is 2 full years younger than Kispert. They came out of the same draft and have essentially the same rookie contracts so there are no cap ramifications. Memphis might prefer to wait until the offseason to make the move though. Next year, they'll get back both Adams and Clarke.

It would be a shame to lose Kispert, but he seems to have plateaued this season. He's a solid role player, but I just don't see him making another leap and becoming a full-time starter. He just can't hold up defensively.

Aldama has starter potential. European big men tend to develop a bit later into their career, often having a second surge of improvement around age 25-26 (Adama is about to turn 23). Go look at the career arc of guys like Pau Gasol, Markkanen, Sabonis, Gallinari, Marc Gasol, Jokic, Valanciunas, Porzingis, Mo Wagner, Zubac. etc. I'd take that gamble on Aldama.

I'd do the move even if we don't come up with a Kuzma trade at the same time. I'm fine with Kuzma and Aldama splitting the PF minutes, with Aldama sliding over to center for stretches. It would mean less PF minutes for Avdija, which is okay with me because I think he is better at SF. With Kispert gone, there'd be no shortage of minutes available for Coulibaly.

While I think the value is fair, I would really lean towards more cost-controlled assets. We are 3 years away from our climb back, so getting a guy that is a FA after next year doesnt do much for me. Aldama is very likely to be better than a guy picked in the 22-26 range in the draft, but I would still prefer the pick due to our timeline.

[The Consiglieri]

It’s far more than that. They picked guys like Doumbouya, Kennard, Ellenson, and Stanley Johnson.

Terrible drafting for a decade.

Cunningham and Ivey were two of the most overrated prospects of all time. Suggs and Murray alongside Ausar Thompson, would be a solid starting point for a rebuild.

But literally the entire league was wrong about both of them (if they bust or just underwhelm). It's not like they were taking Muresan in the top 5 or something nuts like that, Ivey and Cunningham were consensus top of lottery guys, Ivey was gonna go higher according to some and Cunningham was 1 or 2 on nearly every scouts board and reported mock based on interviews I saw. The whole league was wrong, this wasn't the Jets or Raiders going full Jets or Raiders off the board, this was the league just missing on an eval (if it plays out that way). I agree with Nate on that breakdown. That was the reality of people's boards at the time. It is weird that they are colossaly bad after so many consensus top guys went right to them. They didn't even have terrible lottery luck, they were pulling top guys for the classes in draft after draft. How on earth they are worse than us is beyond me.