Celts Hang On, Un-Rap Another Win! Victory Cigar vs TOR 12/29

[steefP2]

Tatum can’t win on this board sometimes; if you want him to put up stats like luka, sga, embiid etc he’d need to freeze out jrue, white, brown and kp to a degree and just run the show all the time which I’m sure no one actually wants. To me it’s good he’s willing to take a step back so the others can do their thing.

No one is disputing his shot selection could be better but I feel like we start with that and then the conversation devolves into a bunch of nonsense

[steefP2]

Last point; remember how, with the exception of last season, Tatum usually starts slow and then goes off post All Star break. Maybe he’s just so good now this is what “slow” look like.


I’m not predicting this but it’s possible we’re gonna get a 2-3 month stretch of 30/10/5 Tatum. We’ve seen it before.

[Fierce1]

Tatum can’t win on this board sometimes; if you want him to put up stats like luka, sga, embiid etc he’d need to freeze out jrue, white, brown and kp to a degree and just run the show all the time which I’m sure no one actually wants. To me it’s good he’s willing to take a step back so the others can do their thing.

No one is disputing his shot selection could be better but I feel like we start with that and then the conversation devolves into a bunch of nonsense

So true.

[ConstableGeneva]

Take it easy with the pullup threes, have a more diverse EOQ playcalling, and Tatum & I are square. The non-basketball, mostly subjective narratives are radio talk show garbage.

[Mr_Mojo_Risin]

Can someone please vote Luke (and not White) and break the deadlock? He deserves a CP…

[ConstableGeneva]

VC/CP:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[Mr_Mojo_Risin]

Also shoutout to Joe, if he was a crap coach we would not see us winning with all different lineups and JB and White would not be showing the improvements they have been.

[Mr_Mojo_Risin]

VC/CP:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Don’t you dare start the next thread and give CP to team. Luke must get this…

[Fierce1]

Also shoutout to Joe, if he was a crap coach we would not see us winning with all different lineups and JB and White would not be showing the improvements they have been.

No JB, Cs win.

No JT, Cs win.

No KP, Cs win.

The coach must be doing something right.

Are the Celtic fans ready for Coach of the Year Joe?

[ConstableGeneva]

VC/CP:

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Don’t you dare start the next thread and give CP to team. Luke must get this…

Parl has the conn back. If it were up to me (and not the board rules), I'd give White 3 VCs for every win.

[Smart2Nesmith43]

Joe Mazzulla: has a line-up of Pritchard/White/Mykhailiuk/Hauser/Kornet running a layup line on a NBA defense.
Celtics fans: Mazzulla only wins because his team has more talent.

Hmmmm

[Smart2Nesmith43]

Who worries you guys the most? Nuggets or Bucks I imagine. The Timberwolves maybe. The Heat as well. the Celtics will never have the best player on the court when it come to the the Nuggets, Bucks, 76ers, Thunder, Mavericks etc, but they have ine hell of a roster to make up for that.

Until Shai does something in the playoffs you can’t consider him better than Tatum yet & until Embiid’s production doesn’t fall off a cliff come playoff time I think most people would take Tatum over him.

Well according to the MVP votes it was pretty unanimous everyone took them above Tatum. I guess we're only 25% through the year but there you have it. Not just most people but all of them, Tatum didn't crack the top 5. SGA and Embiid did.

Kinda hard to argue at the current moment, SGA is dropping 31 ppg on 54% shooting with 3 steals a game lol. Tossing in 6 rpg and 6 aspg.

And Joel has taken his game to the next level so far this year to have an even more impressive or just as impressive season as SGA. They both seem to be on another level atm.

The 2017 Golden State Warriors with KD and Curry went 67-15 with the #1 offense and #2 defense before posting the best postseason record in history (16-1). That year, Steph Curry finished 6th in MVP voting behind IT (and KD was 9th behind John Wall). They didn't have a single first all NBA team selection. Playing with a bunch of talented teammates depresses indivual numbers and makes it much harder to feature in those type of award races. It doesn't mean that the players on those teams are worse than the stars on other rosters.

To be clear, this Boston team isn't the 2017 Warriors, but it's still a lot more talented than an OKC team with a rookie as the second leading scorer so it's perfectly normal that its first option isn't putting up the numbers from the number one option of the Thunder.

[Jammer]

Pretty amazing that the Celtics could pull a win out over Toronto without their 1rst, 2nd and 6th Best Players. It took a 1rst Team All-NBA game from Jaylen Brown to do it. But the Celtics got plenty of support from the rest of the Team, especially on the boards.
Luke Kornet played like an All-Star thanks to a lot of great feeds by the Celtic guards. Queta came thru marvelously, and Hauser did a respectable job. Derrick White woke up late in the 4th to bring home the victory on a night he was otherwise not his usual self. Maybe that early goaltend denying him a bucket due to a ref blunder got in his head, but he brought home the victory.

An alternative perspective:

Pts. + Rebounds + (0.5 x Assists) + Steals + (0.5 x Blocks) - Missed FGs - (0.5 x Missed Free Throws) - Turnovers - (0.5 x Fouls)

+29.5 Jaylen Brown 40 minutes 7 Turnovers
+26.5 Luke Kornet 33 minutes

+16 Derrick White 35 minutes
+14 Sam Hauser 34 minutes
+11.5 Neemias Queta 14 minutes
+6.5 Oshae Brisset 15 minutes

+6.5 Payton Pritchard 25 minutes
+6 Jrue Holiday 32 minutes
+4.5 Svi Mykhailiuk 7 minutes
+1 Dalano Banotn 2 minutes

Team Total = 122

Your formula takes into accounts turnovers. Its actually 2x more impactful than assists. So Jaylen having the top value with 7 turnovers is impressive.

Also why did you feel the need to point an individual stat out when presenting a stat that already accounts for it?

7 Turnovers is a bit unusual for any player, and to have a 1rst Team All-NBA Like performance like Jaylen did is worth highlighting. LeBron does it (maybe not 7, but 5 or 6 Turnovers many times in his career) while being outstanding otherwise. Jaylen was lights out from 3, whereas White couldn’t find the basket until late in the game (when he started to draw fouls).

You seem hung up on rebounds being more valuable than assists, and Turnovers being more impactful than assists. Well, they are. Someone still has to make the shot. Passing the ball is essential, but ultimately someone got to put it in the basket. I can remember Golden State winning two titles with players draped all over Klay Thompson when he was burying 3’s. Now, someone passed him the ball on a lot of those makes, but it was 99% Klay’s ability to make a DEEP 3 with a hand in his face or going for the block.

Triple7 commented in the game thread that he thought Hauser was a scrub, but without Hauser’s 9 Rebounds (say he only had 3) the Celtics certainly lose yesterday’s game. They either prevent another shot attempt by the opponent or enable another offensive score.

This is simply a case of where we agree to disagree.

[Celts17Pride]

Tatum can’t win on this board sometimes; if you want him to put up stats like luka, sga, embiid etc he’d need to freeze out jrue, white, brown and kp to a degree and just run the show all the time which I’m sure no one actually wants. To me it’s good he’s willing to take a step back so the others can do their thing.

No one is disputing his shot selection could be better but I feel like we start with that and then the conversation devolves into a bunch of nonsense

Just ignore. I've been ignoring for the most part the Tatum and Brown slander for years. Celtics have two star players that continue to work hard year after year on their flaws. Celtics fans just don't know how lucky they are to have stars like this. They are different players and have different weaknesses but they care and work at it. What more can you ask for?

[tfmiii]

White only 2-10 from 3pt land, but he played well.

JT went 2-11 from 3pt land, scored 30 points, grabbed 10 boards, and a lot of Celtic fans were upset with JT.

I think some of the Celtic fans have set the expectations of JT too high.

Fair statement but I disagree. DWhite's 3s came in the flow via action and he's shooting 42 percent.

Also when you hit your shot matters, DWhite was money in the clutch JT sadly was not so much.

Can't we acknowledge JT has some things to work on? Especially with his usage being our lead ball handler and our primary end of clock/game option?

[Jammer]

Also shoutout to Joe, if he was a crap coach we would not see us winning with all different lineups and JB and White would not be showing the improvements they have been.

If anything, it's the presence of a Consultant named Van Gundy and the veteran presence of Holiday and Porzingis.

If you switched Spoelstra and Joe before training camp,

the 25-6 Celtics would be 28-3 and the 19-12 Miami Heat would be 13-18.

No disrespect, just my opinion of Spoelstra vs. Joe in terms of communication ability, Message & IN-GAME MANAGEMENT.

[celticfan42487]

Until Shai does something in the playoffs you can’t consider him better than Tatum yet & until Embiid’s production doesn’t fall off a cliff come playoff time I think most people would take Tatum over him.

Well according to the MVP votes it was pretty unanimous everyone took them above Tatum. I guess we're only 25% through the year but there you have it. Not just most people but all of them, Tatum didn't crack the top 5. SGA and Embiid did.

Kinda hard to argue at the current moment, SGA is dropping 31 ppg on 54% shooting with 3 steals a game lol. Tossing in 6 rpg and 6 aspg.

And Joel has taken his game to the next level so far this year to have an even more impressive or just as impressive season as SGA. They both seem to be on another level atm.

Same point last year Tatum was nr 1 in the mvp straw poll. These mean nothing. Yes Tatum isn’t playing like a top 5 guy so far this season but he doesn’t have to. He’s proven what he needs to prove in terms of regular season stuff. He knows as well as anyone it’s all about the playoffs and winning a title now.


I’ll judge him on that. + there’s been a lot of little positive development within JT’s game that to my mind make him a more complete player this year. Counting stats aren’t everything.

Is that positive development, or is that playing with two more 40% 3 point shooters in a 5 out offense so he is facing single coverage?

[KillahGhostface]

Well according to the MVP votes it was pretty unanimous everyone took them above Tatum. I guess we're only 25% through the year but there you have it. Not just most people but all of them, Tatum didn't crack the top 5. SGA and Embiid did.

Kinda hard to argue at the current moment, SGA is dropping 31 ppg on 54% shooting with 3 steals a game lol. Tossing in 6 rpg and 6 aspg.

And Joel has taken his game to the next level so far this year to have an even more impressive or just as impressive season as SGA. They both seem to be on another level atm.

Same point last year Tatum was nr 1 in the mvp straw poll. These mean nothing. Yes Tatum isn’t playing like a top 5 guy so far this season but he doesn’t have to. He’s proven what he needs to prove in terms of regular season stuff. He knows as well as anyone it’s all about the playoffs and winning a title now.


I’ll judge him on that. + there’s been a lot of little positive development within JT’s game that to my mind make him a more complete player this year. Counting stats aren’t everything.

Is that positive development, or is that playing with two more 40% 3 point shooters in a 5 out offense so he is facing single coverage?

Tatum still gets blitzed on basically every PnR, always gets doubled in the post, and draws two just cutting off ball. I’m sure he sees single coverage a bit more than in the past, but the schemes to slow him down are as aggressive as ever.

Or are we going to pretend that he’s not creating wide open shots for everyone else?

[Half-Full]

Joe Mazzulla: has a line-up of Pritchard/White/Mykhailiuk/Hauser/Kornet running a layup line on a NBA defense.
Celtics fans: Mazzulla only wins because his team has more talent.

Hmmmm

That was a fun line-up. Pleased to see some of our deep bench players getting some run, and doing well. Svi took everyone by surprise on one play, driving to the basket and delivering a very sweet pass to Kornet for a dunk. Kornet had a big game, and that was nice to see.

[return2glory]

Glad to see coach Joe finally getting some love.

I felt he did a really good coach last season for a rookie coach that was thrown in as a coach last season. Then his top assistant bailed on him before the playoffs started. Despite all that, we were very close to going to the Finals.

This season, he has improved. He deserves a lot of credit. Brad deserves a lot of credit too for getting more talent on the team and adding two really good assistants to support coach Joe. I'm happy for Joe.