2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas

[KnixinSix]

"only 20 minutes" is almost half the game where offense would be handicapped and you wouldn't be able to make a superstar offer until the summer of 2026.

Handicapped is an awfully strong word considering Brunson's ability to play off ball and the fact that Murray is a 20 point scorer who is a whole lot more efficient than RJ Barrett at a 45-46% FG and 38% from 3.

You make it seem like this guy is Elfrid Peyton lol.

Yesterday was a glimpse into what improved with the addition of OG and what we still need after losing IQ/RJ.

Murray is a bonafide scorer who is not elite but he isn't a super inefficient volume chucker either. He would be a bigtime improvement over RJboth offensively and defensively and while not as pure a shooter as IQ , he is a more dynamic scorer than IQ is.

Murray’s addition to Atlanta made them worse as he didn’t pair well with Tre… why would it be any different with the Knicks? Please elaborate… I’m honestly curious about how it could work better here.

Tre's game while a better pure scorer/shooter is not as dynamic as Brunson. Brunson played with the ball dominant Luka and thrived as he has a very good off-ball game too.

Murray and Brunson would play 'only' about 20 minutes together and Brunson could play some off ball at that time also saving some wear on his body. Murray would be the best PG on our team after Brunson and be that length guy that Thibs loves at the PG position (like Elfrid Peyton was but with a better offensive game).

Murray is a legit 38% 3 pt shooter this year and a 46% FG is not an inefficent number (like RJs ridiculously low 42 ish %). He also has ability to be a strong defender and is still young.

He comes at a 23M ish price tag vs LaVine at 45 and is less injry prone. That contract allows us to make another bigger move cap wise especially if Randle were to be included.

His contract is also flippable and less likely to be an albatross like the more injury prone LaVine's at 45-50M AAV

[cgf]

"only 20 minutes" is almost half the game where offense would be handicapped and you wouldn't be able to make a superstar offer until the summer of 2026.

Handicapped is an awfully strong word considering Brunson's ability to play off ball and the fact that Murray is a 20 point scorer who is a whole lot more efficient than RJ Barrett at a 45-46% FG and 38% from 3.

You make it seem like this guy is Elfrid Peyton lol.

Yesterday was a glimpse into what improved with the addition of OG and what we still need after losing IQ/RJ.

Murray is a bonafide scorer who is not elite but he isn't a super inefficient volume chucker either. He would be a bigtime improvement over RJboth offensively and defensively and while not as pure a shooter as IQ , he is a more dynamic scorer than IQ is.

Murray’s addition to Atlanta made them worse as he didn’t pair well with Tre… why would it be any different with the Knicks? Please elaborate… I’m honestly curious about how it could work better here.

This is my issue. Taking the ball out of Randle or Brunson's hands to give it to Murray would make our offense worse, and asking Murray to space instead of OG / Grimes / DDV would make our offense worse. Murray would be an upgrade over McBride with the 2nd unit, but those are the only minutes that he could actually improve our offense for.

And given how lazy he's become defensively, there's just no way in hell giving up even a single unprotected future pick for DJM would make any sense.

I guess if we strike out on better options like Lavine, White, Brogdon, Hield, Clarkson, Sexton, Tyus Jones, etc. and we can get DJM for our 1st this year and one or two of our protected FRPs, Murray would be better than playing Fournier...but at the rumored prices that trade just screams catastrophe.

[cgf]

Handicapped is an awfully strong word considering Brunson's ability to play off ball and the fact that Murray is a 20 point scorer who is a whole lot more efficient than RJ Barrett at a 45-46% FG and 38% from 3.

You make it seem like this guy is Elfrid Peyton lol.

Yesterday was a glimpse into what improved with the addition of OG and what we still need after losing IQ/RJ.

Murray is a bonafide scorer who is not elite but he isn't a super inefficient volume chucker either. He would be a bigtime improvement over RJboth offensively and defensively and while not as pure a shooter as IQ , he is a more dynamic scorer than IQ is.

Murray’s addition to Atlanta made them worse as he didn’t pair well with Tre… why would it be any different with the Knicks? Please elaborate… I’m honestly curious about how it could work better here.

Tre's game while a better pure scorer/shooter is not as dynamic as Brunson. Brunson played with the ball dominant Luka and thrived as he has a very good off-ball game too.

Murray and Brunson would play 'only' about 20 minutes together and Brunson could play some off ball at that time also saving some wear on his body. Murray would be the best PG on our team after Brunson and be that length guy that Thibs loves at the PG position (like Elfrid Peyton was but with a better offensive game).

Murray is a legit 38% 3 pt shooter this year and a 46% FG is not an inefficent number (like RJs ridiculously low 42 ish %). He also has ability to be a strong defender and is still young.

He comes at a 23M ish price tag vs LaVine at 45 and is less injry prone. That contract allows us to make another bigger move cap wise especially if Randle were to be included.

His contract is also flippable and less likely to be an albatross like the more injury prone LaVine's at 45-50M AAV

You're ignoring that Trae is also twice the playmaker that Brunson is, so Murray's #s will probably go down when he no longer gets as many good looks created for him...given how bad Murray is at creating good looks for himself.

Dejounte Murray TS%:
55.9 54.0 53.3 50.9 52.4 48.5 50.3; career 52.6

RJ Barrett TS%:
53.8 53.1 51.1 53.5 47.9, career 51.9

Before having Trae Young playmaking for him Murray was a worse scorer than RJ Barrett...

I'll repeat that, it took Trae Young...one of the NBA's best passers...for Murray to surpass RJ.

[KnixinSix]

Handicapped is an awfully strong word considering Brunson's ability to play off ball and the fact that Murray is a 20 point scorer who is a whole lot more efficient than RJ Barrett at a 45-46% FG and 38% from 3.

You make it seem like this guy is Elfrid Peyton lol.

Yesterday was a glimpse into what improved with the addition of OG and what we still need after losing IQ/RJ.

Murray is a bonafide scorer who is not elite but he isn't a super inefficient volume chucker either. He would be a bigtime improvement over RJboth offensively and defensively and while not as pure a shooter as IQ , he is a more dynamic scorer than IQ is.

Murray’s addition to Atlanta made them worse as he didn’t pair well with Tre… why would it be any different with the Knicks? Please elaborate… I’m honestly curious about how it could work better here.

This is my issue. Taking the ball out of Randle or Brunson's hands to give it to Murray would make our offense worse, and asking Murray to space instead of OG / Grimes / DDV would make our offense worse. Murray would be an upgrade over McBride with the 2nd unit, but those are the only minutes that he could actually improve our offense for.

And given how lazy he's become defensively, there's just no way in hell giving up even a single unprotected future pick for DJM would make any sense.

I guess if we strike out on better options like Lavine, White, Brogdon, Hield, Clarkson, Sexton, Tyus Jones, etc. and we can get DJM for our 1st this year and one or two of our protected FRPs, Murray would be better than playing Fournier...but at the rumored prices that trade just screams catastrophe.

Murray would likely be taking that RJ role of playing substancial minutes as the primary PG/ball handler with the bench. He is actually pretty ideal for that role. Yesterday we saw how lacking our bench was after losing IQ.

Is he perfect...no....that'd be booker....but at 23M and what'd he'd potentially provide offensively/defensively as a combo guard, it's a pretty solidget for our roster construction.

[KnixinSix]

Murray’s addition to Atlanta made them worse as he didn’t pair well with Tre… why would it be any different with the Knicks? Please elaborate… I’m honestly curious about how it could work better here.

Tre's game while a better pure scorer/shooter is not as dynamic as Brunson. Brunson played with the ball dominant Luka and thrived as he has a very good off-ball game too.

Murray and Brunson would play 'only' about 20 minutes together and Brunson could play some off ball at that time also saving some wear on his body. Murray would be the best PG on our team after Brunson and be that length guy that Thibs loves at the PG position (like Elfrid Peyton was but with a better offensive game).

Murray is a legit 38% 3 pt shooter this year and a 46% FG is not an inefficent number (like RJs ridiculously low 42 ish %). He also has ability to be a strong defender and is still young.

He comes at a 23M ish price tag vs LaVine at 45 and is less injry prone. That contract allows us to make another bigger move cap wise especially if Randle were to be included.

His contract is also flippable and less likely to be an albatross like the more injury prone LaVine's at 45-50M AAV

You're ignoring that Trae is also twice the playmaker that Brunson is, so Murray's #s will probably go down when he no longer gets as many good looks created for him...given how bad Murray is at creating good looks for himself.

Dejounte Murray TS%:
55.9 54.0 53.3 50.9 52.4 48.5 50.3; career 52.6

RJ Barrett TS%:
53.8 53.1 51.1 53.5 47.9, career 51.9

Before having Trae Young playmaking for him Murray was a worse scorer than RJ Barrett...

I'll repeat that, it took Trae Young...one of the NBA's best passers...for Murray to surpass RJ.

Interesting argument. How was Murray's last year in SA without Trae young's alleged elite playmaking making him so much better?

21.1pts a game on 46.2% FG...and strong defense....

[Fury]

I'd take Murray if he came off the bench

[cgf]

Murray’s addition to Atlanta made them worse as he didn’t pair well with Tre… why would it be any different with the Knicks? Please elaborate… I’m honestly curious about how it could work better here.

This is my issue. Taking the ball out of Randle or Brunson's hands to give it to Murray would make our offense worse, and asking Murray to space instead of OG / Grimes / DDV would make our offense worse. Murray would be an upgrade over McBride with the 2nd unit, but those are the only minutes that he could actually improve our offense for.

And given how lazy he's become defensively, there's just no way in hell giving up even a single unprotected future pick for DJM would make any sense.

I guess if we strike out on better options like Lavine, White, Brogdon, Hield, Clarkson, Sexton, Tyus Jones, etc. and we can get DJM for our 1st this year and one or two of our protected FRPs, Murray would be better than playing Fournier...but at the rumored prices that trade just screams catastrophe.

Murray would likely be taking that RJ role of playing substancial minutes as the primary PG/ball handler with the bench. He is actually pretty ideal for that role. Yesterday we saw how lacking our bench was after losing IQ.

Is he perfect...no....that'd be booker....but at 23M and what'd he'd potentially provide offensively/defensively as a combo guard, it's a pretty solidget for our roster construction.

Yeah it's his similarities to RJ that are my concern.

Dejounte Murray TS%:
55.9 54.0 53.3 50.9 52.4 48.5 50.3; career 52.6

RJ Barrett TS%:
53.8 53.1 51.1 53.5 47.9, career 51.9

We saw yesterday how much better our offense looked without RJ clogging things up and you're asking for us to bring back someone who was a worse scorer than RJ before Trae Young started feeding him open looks. The only time Murray has scored better than RJ has been this season...but we've seen RJ get hot for a couple of months before, he does it every year.

[cgf]

Tre's game while a better pure scorer/shooter is not as dynamic as Brunson. Brunson played with the ball dominant Luka and thrived as he has a very good off-ball game too.

Murray and Brunson would play 'only' about 20 minutes together and Brunson could play some off ball at that time also saving some wear on his body. Murray would be the best PG on our team after Brunson and be that length guy that Thibs loves at the PG position (like Elfrid Peyton was but with a better offensive game).

Murray is a legit 38% 3 pt shooter this year and a 46% FG is not an inefficent number (like RJs ridiculously low 42 ish %). He also has ability to be a strong defender and is still young.

He comes at a 23M ish price tag vs LaVine at 45 and is less injry prone. That contract allows us to make another bigger move cap wise especially if Randle were to be included.

His contract is also flippable and less likely to be an albatross like the more injury prone LaVine's at 45-50M AAV

You're ignoring that Trae is also twice the playmaker that Brunson is, so Murray's #s will probably go down when he no longer gets as many good looks created for him...given how bad Murray is at creating good looks for himself.

Dejounte Murray TS%:
55.9 54.0 53.3 50.9 52.4 48.5 50.3; career 52.6

RJ Barrett TS%:
53.8 53.1 51.1 53.5 47.9, career 51.9

Before having Trae Young playmaking for him Murray was a worse scorer than RJ Barrett...

I'll repeat that, it took Trae Young...one of the NBA's best passers...for Murray to surpass RJ.

Interesting argument. How was Murray's last year in SA without Trae young's alleged elite playmaking making him so much better?

You mean the season that he scored less efficiently than RJ did last year (53.3 vs 53.8)?

Even with how hot he is this season, he's scoring more than 2% below league average. So even if he really is a 38% 3pt guy from now on and this hasn't just been a fluke, he'd still be a bad scorer.

[cgf]

If you guys want a defensive guard that can't score, how about Okoro? He's not meaningfully worse than RJ Murray offensively and he's actually a tough defender...was one of the only Cavs last spring who refused to back down from our physicality

[spree2kawhi]

Wasn’t a fan of the idea before but I’m thinking now that

Fournier and draft considerations for Brogdon makes a ton of sense.

Brogdon makes 22.5m and has another year on his deal. Becomes the salary filler for continuous soup. He’d fit in as a stabilizing force to the second unit, someone you can trust for those 10 crucial minutes Brunson sits in a playoff game.
The question to me is what is the draft considerations?
We made a deal with Portland last trade deadline and they took our first round pick for Josh Hart. Would we do that again?

Brunson
DDV
OG
Randle
iHart

Brogdon
Grimes
Hart
Achiuwa

Brogdon is a lateral move. I don’t know… I’d trade Fournier for a higher impact player. We’re going to be a second round playoff team either way, so what’s the point?

How about Jerami Grant instead?

The point is to give our core more support this season and to use Fournier's contract before it just expires and comes off the books. We're not going to a cap space team either way, so why let that salary slot go when we could use it instead?

It's not like even if we kept all of our picks we'd have enough roster spots for them. Have to spend them sooner or later

This management can use a 20 million expiring

a) to bolster the status quo
b) to improve the team’s ceiling by going after borderline all star talent.

I’d choose b) and inquire about Jerami Grant instead of Brogdon, who of course would be of great value but not that type of game changer. There are game changers out there on teams who may want to reduce next year’s payroll: Dejounte Murray, Jerami Grant, Keldon Johnson, Vucevic, DeRozan.


If you ask me, Jerami Grant is clearly the best player and fit out there.

[cgf]

Brogdon is a lateral move. I don’t know… I’d trade Fournier for a higher impact player. We’re going to be a second round playoff team either way, so what’s the point?

How about Jerami Grant instead?

The point is to give our core more support this season and to use Fournier's contract before it just expires and comes off the books. We're not going to a cap space team either way, so why let that salary slot go when we could use it instead?

It's not like even if we kept all of our picks we'd have enough roster spots for them. Have to spend them sooner or later

This management can use a 20 million expiring

a) to bolster the status quo
b) to improve the team’s ceiling by going after borderline all star talent.

I’d choose b) and inquire about Jerami Grant instead of Brogdon, who of course would be of great value but not that type of game changer. There are game changers out there on teams who may want to reduce next year’s payroll: Dejounte Murray, Jerami Grant, Keldon Johnson, Vucevic, DeRozan.


If you ask me, Jerami Grant is clearly the best player and fit out there.

Of that group, Grant's the only one who I don't think would make us worse...maybe Keldon Johnson as a 6th man...so I guess I agree if we had to pick from that group.

Bit redundant with Randle, Anunoby, Hart, and Grimes already on the team getting minutes at the 3 or 4...and he wouldn't address our lack of non-Brunson/Randle creation or our lack of a back up center. But if we could solve those other needs first without using Fournier's deal, I wouldn't be mad about getting Grant too.

Portland fans seems split on whether Fournier + 24 NYK or DAL FRP + DET FRP would be enough for Grant...I was trying to see what a Grant + DDV to Chicago, and Lavine to NYC deal would look like...a couple said they'd probably do it even after I told them what the protections on that pick were, though one of them said they'd pass once they knew the details.

[HarthorneWingo]

Deuce and a SRP to the Bulls for Drummond is next.

Hard pass. Deuce would be a better rim protector than Drummond.

I should have clarified. I heard this on KnicksFanTV from CP and Alex.

And after iHart’s game yesterday I probably shouldn’t have even posted it.

[cgf]

Handicapped is an awfully strong word considering Brunson's ability to play off ball and the fact that Murray is a 20 point scorer who is a whole lot more efficient than RJ Barrett at a 45-46% FG and 38% from 3.

You make it seem like this guy is Elfrid Peyton lol.

Yesterday was a glimpse into what improved with the addition of OG and what we still need after losing IQ/RJ.

Murray is a bonafide scorer who is not elite but he isn't a super inefficient volume chucker either. He would be a bigtime improvement over RJboth offensively and defensively and while not as pure a shooter as IQ , he is a more dynamic scorer than IQ is.

Murray’s addition to Atlanta made them worse as he didn’t pair well with Tre… why would it be any different with the Knicks? Please elaborate… I’m honestly curious about how it could work better here.

To be fair it isn't really the back court that is the problem in ATL, it is the front court. I think the culture in NY, I can't believe we get to say this now, would help him.

Although, it has to be the right call to turn him around or the salary size and length of his contract makes it a lingering issue.

I dunno. They have some good defenders in the front court, I think it's absolutely Trae & Murray's inability to defend that is at the heart of Atlanta's defensive issues. Their offense is a bit too "my turn, your turn" but it's still more than productive enough for them to win games, but they just can't stop anyone cause teams can pick on that backcourt with ease.

[cgf]

Deuce and a SRP to the Bulls for Drummond is next.

Hard pass. Deuce would be a better rim protector than Drummond.

I should have clarified. I heard this on KnicksFanTV from CP and Alex.

And after iHart’s game yesterday I probably shouldn’t have even posted it.

Fair enough, just as someone who watches too much Bulls basketball, I have no interest in trying to cover up for Drummond

Lavine, Pat Williams, Caruso, Jevon Carter, or Torrey Craig could definitely help a playoff team like us. I think DDR could help a team like Brooklyn or Utah that had some shooters but lacked creators...though his refusal to shoot 3s makes him rough on a team's spacing...and I waffle on whether Vucevic could help a good team...unless maybe a return to Orlando?

But Dre is 100% an empty calories guy who's feet are just too slow to hide defensively on most nights.

[Signature NYK]

Grimes
Fournier
Mavs 1st
Obi TPE

for

Colin Sexton
Kelly O

Jazz seemed to like Grimes last year and currently have no 2024 1sts

We get the IQ replacement/ball handler of the bench spark and add a big who can stretch the floor a bit. Sexton has been lauded as a good defender in the past. He's not as good nor does he have the potential of IQ imo but Thibs would like his mentality on defense.

Brunson/Sexton
Donte/Sexton
OG/Hart
Randle/OG/Precious
Hartenstein/Kelly O


I think this team can make an ECF run if things go right then look to Go big game hunting again next season with the remaining picks and swaps plus Sexton or Randle + Mitch to secure the true Star.

Wishful thinking maybe but hey

[HarthorneWingo]

Hard pass. Deuce would be a better rim protector than Drummond.

I should have clarified. I heard this on KnicksFanTV from CP and Alex.

And after iHart’s game yesterday I probably shouldn’t have even posted it.

Fair enough, just as someone who watches too much Bulls basketball, I have no interest in trying to cover up for Drummond

Lavine, Pat Williams, Caruso, Jevon Carter, or Torrey Craig could definitely help a playoff team like us. I think DDR could help a team like Brooklyn or Utah that had some shooters but lacked creators...though his refusal to shoot 3s makes him rough on a team's spacing...and I waffle on whether Vucevic could help a good team...unless maybe a return to Orlando?

But Dre is 100% an empty calories guy who's feet are just too slow to hide defensively on most nights.

Didn't the Bulls play Drummond recently and his put up big numbers? Was Vuc out or something?

[HarthorneWingo]

Deuce and a SRP to the Bulls for Drummond is next.

Is Derozan coming with him?

For Deuce and a SRP? I doubt it. Though I wouldn't mind DeRozan if he was willing to come off the bench.

[sol537]

Grimes
Fournier
Mavs 1st
Obi TPE

for

Colin Sexton
Kelly O

Jazz seemed to like Grimes last year and currently have no 2024 1sts

We get the IQ replacement/ball handler of the bench spark and add a big who can stretch the floor a bit. Sexton has been lauded as a good defender in the past. He's not as good nor does he have the potential of IQ imo but Thibs would like his mentality on defense.

Brunson/Sexton
Donte/Sexton
OG/Hart
Randle/OG/Precious
Hartenstein/Kelly O


I think this team can make an ECF run if things go right then look to Go big game hunting again next season with the remaining picks and swaps plus Sexton or Randle + Mitch to secure the true Star.

Wishful thinking maybe but hey

This is… pretty nice. Either that or a play for Brogdon makes sense. Olynyk and Sexton would make our bench devastating. Ainge is probably going to help Boston over us by sending them Olynyk.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Grimes
Fournier
Mavs 1st
Obi TPE

for

Colin Sexton
Kelly O

Jazz seemed to like Grimes last year and currently have no 2024 1sts

We get the IQ replacement/ball handler of the bench spark and add a big who can stretch the floor a bit. Sexton has been lauded as a good defender in the past. He's not as good nor does he have the potential of IQ imo but Thibs would like his mentality on defense.

Brunson/Sexton
Donte/Sexton
OG/Hart
Randle/OG/Precious
Hartenstein/Kelly O


I think this team can make an ECF run if things go right then look to Go big game hunting again next season with the remaining picks and swaps plus Sexton or Randle + Mitch to secure the true Star.

Wishful thinking maybe but hey

This is… pretty nice. Either that or a play for Brogdon makes sense. Olynyk and Sexton would make our bench devastating. Ainge is probably going to help Boston over us by sending them Olynyk.

This is really really nice. Ainge is gonna want more though and yes, he will help Boston over us all day every day and twice on Sunday. That would be a pretty tough team to beat though.

[spree2kawhi]

Grimes
Fournier
Mavs 1st
Obi TPE

for

Colin Sexton
Kelly O

Jazz seemed to like Grimes last year and currently have no 2024 1sts

We get the IQ replacement/ball handler of the bench spark and add a big who can stretch the floor a bit. Sexton has been lauded as a good defender in the past. He's not as good nor does he have the potential of IQ imo but Thibs would like his mentality on defense.

Brunson/Sexton
Donte/Sexton
OG/Hart
Randle/OG/Precious
Hartenstein/Kelly O


I think this team can make an ECF run if things go right then look to Go big game hunting again next season with the remaining picks and swaps plus Sexton or Randle + Mitch to secure the true Star.

Wishful thinking maybe but hey

You don’t trade with the Jazz without going after Markkanen imo