Fake Trade Thread #5

[Liver_Pooty]

The Rozier bashing on here is **** absurd. Never seen anything like it.

Wrong hill to die on, broski

Lol I'm done talking about it, but I just think it's wild to me. I've said enough about him. People talking about him like he's a poor mans Ricky Davis or something

[JustBuzzin]

The Rozier bashing on here is **** absurd. Never seen anything like it.

Wrong hill to die on, broski

Lol I'm done talking about it, but I just think it's wild to me. I've said enough about him. People talking about him like he's a poor mans Ricky Davis or something

Nobody is saying that. I am speaking for me I just don't view him as our 2nd best player on the team. He's a good scorer but he doesn't really do anything positive besides scoring. His apg look good on the stat sheet until you actually see him passing in the game. He will miss wide open guys just to get his shot. If he played more of a team game then I would absolutely give him the 2nd best player title.

My issue with Rozier is he takes a lot of shots. I just want to see us play more team ball. When you continuously pass up wide open shots for your teammates it makes you look selfish.

[yosemiteben]

The answer is...no. I can't agree on that. You just saw it last night, we hung with Denver without Terry.

You referring to the game where we ended Q3 down 23?

Where is the scoring coming from? Do you think someone one this roster is capable of generating offense but just isn't because of Terry? Who exactly?

Why would we move Terry to open up time for NSJ, who has a best case scenario that's probably close to...what Terry is now?

I'm very confused as to why we suck and people point to our current best player and are like "it's his fault, let's trade him and we'll get better.". What if we actually got a competent PG so Terry doesn't have to be both facilitator and primary scorer at the same time?

He's not our best player.

You can argue Miller is our current best player if we talking about the healthy players.

I love wait I've seen from Miller and am bullish on his future, but he would fail miserably if he was asked to do what Terry is asked to do right now. There's no comparison.

[JDR720]

Can we at least agree that if we move Terry for expirings / non-primary scorers that we are going to get worse, not better? Terry is not stealing productivity from anyone else on this roster that is ready to contribute. We are losing anyway, yes, but Terry actually has NBA ready skills that few others on the roster actually have.

With Melo out, there is no one on this roster that can come close to carrying the scoring load like Terry has. Shipping him out is a tank move, not a move to improve our performance in the short term.

I mean I honestly don't think Terry or Not-Terry moves the needle very much one direction or the other.

Are we "worse"? Eh probably.

Is the W/L affected? Maybe but probably not by more than a game or so?

I guess I'm left wondering what the point is of moving guys with useful skillsets. We could realistically lose Miles this summer and I think everyone wants to move Gordo. We are already at a talent deficit, moving our most talented guys does not seem to be to be a productive step forward towards becoming competitive unless we're just going full tank.

But he's not one of those guys. Our core is Melo, Mark, Miller and whoever we draft this year. Terry is, at best, 4th in the pecking order of our best/most important players. 5th if we keep Miles. There are, I think, around 50 players averaging 20ppg this year. Players like Terry aren't that hard to find. We may have another in Nick Jr eventually. Or this draft that is guard heavy at the top.

Terry has more shots per game than Giannis and Steph this year, we aren't winning like that. This is sort of like Oubre from last year. Yes, he'll put up stats, but those stats don't correlate to wins.

That's sort of the point I keep going back to. Nothing against Terry, he's just the odd man out. If he would at least be a passable defender, he'd be fine. But if he needs to score 20+ ppg to be a slight positive (which is still debatable if he is or not), trading him for better fits would make us a better team, even if they don't put up stats like Terry does.

We need to overhaul half the roster, at least. Pretty much all the 2nd rounders besides the ones we picked this year. Frank, Gordon, maybe even PJ if we can trade him since he keeps being so inconsistent. We also need to decide if we're keeping Miles or not.

[yosemiteben]

I mean I honestly don't think Terry or Not-Terry moves the needle very much one direction or the other.

Are we "worse"? Eh probably.

Is the W/L affected? Maybe but probably not by more than a game or so?

I guess I'm left wondering what the point is of moving guys with useful skillsets. We could realistically lose Miles this summer and I think everyone wants to move Gordo. We are already at a talent deficit, moving our most talented guys does not seem to be to be a productive step forward towards becoming competitive unless we're just going full tank.

But he's not one of those guys. Our core is Melo, Mark, Miller and whoever we draft this year. Terry is, at best, 4th in the pecking order of our best/most important players. 5th if we keep Miles.

If your definition of "best" means Terry is below someone not currently in the league, that means we're using radically different definitions. I meant best able to contribute in the court right now. Melo is the only one on the roster that is better, but he can't stay healthy.

Nothing against Terry, he's just the odd man out. If he would at least be a passable defender, he'd be fine. But if he needs to score 20+ ppg to be a slight positive (which is still debatable if he is or not), trading him for better fits would make us a better team, even if they don't put up stats like Terry does.

I'm floored that somehow our only scorer that can stay healthy is somehow the odd man out. You talk about overhauling half the roster and then call by far our most productive player the odd man out...that just doesn't make sense to me.

[amcoolio]

because he doesn’t defend and is a negative on the court! again, this is like the Wizards saying Kuzma is the future. Terry is the guard version of Kuzma. Guard version of Greg Monroe. If Terry could get to 2019 Harden level on offense, then yes, his defense doesn’t matter. but right now a player like Immanuel Quickley is just a much better player for us, because he plays team ball and has better defense.

[JustBuzzin]

If Terry was that valuable contenders would be calling like crazy to get a guy having a career year.

[Bassman]

Well the Lakers reportedly have interest (separate post on this now open). Not sure who I’d want from LA that would work best for our future. Agree that dealing Terry now could submarine our pitiful season this year…but it’s already a lost cause, so for the right deal, why not? He does have value in the right role.

[yosemiteben]

If Terry was that valuable contenders would be calling like crazy to get a guy having a career year.

Like LAL or MIA?

[Rich4114]

because he doesn’t defend and is a negative on the court! again, this is like the Wizards saying Kuzma is the future. Terry is the guard version of Kuzma. Guard version of Greg Monroe. If Terry could get to 2019 Harden level on offense, then yes, his defense doesn’t matter. but right now a player like Immanuel Quickley is just a much better player for us, because he plays team ball and has better defense.

I really like the Kuzma analogy. There are many guys in the NBA who are talented scorers and put up attractive looking stats but simply don't contribute to winning. Washington has two of them. They'd be good players in the right environment as a supportive role but as the centerpiece or secondary guy, they tank the team. That's Terry Rozier. Now every once in a while, the scoring is so good that it actually generates a win. Brooklyn game and the Sacto game come to mind.

Either way, no matter what side of the fence you're on. We have seen enough of this group to know they're not winning any playoff series. So do you want to quadruple down on it and struggle until contracts run out or try to win?

[KingCat]

Eh I'd check if the Warriors would be intrigued in a Kuminga for Miles swap

[GoBobs]

Wrong hill to die on, broski

Lol I'm done talking about it, but I just think it's wild to me. I've said enough about him. People talking about him like he's a poor mans Ricky Davis or something

Nobody is saying that. I am speaking for me I just don't view him as our 2nd best player on the team. He's a good scorer but he doesn't really do anything positive besides scoring. His apg look good on the stat sheet until you actually see him passing in the game. He will miss wide open guys just to get his shot. If he played more of a team game then I would absolutely give him the 2nd best player title.

My issue with Rozier is he takes a lot of shots. I just want to see us play more team ball. When you continuously pass up wide open shots for your teammates it makes you look selfish.

Yet the year before Clifford arrived we led the league in assists with Terry playing 33 minutes per game. Year before that we were third in assists with Terry playing 34 minutes per game.

You don't think maybe the lack of ball movement has something to do with Clifford playing the guys on our team that have the lowest assist percentage on the team like JT Thor, Nick Richards, Mark Williams, Bryce, Smith Jr and Brandon Miller. Your plan is to replace the guy with the 2nd highest assist percentage on the team with guys that have a worse assist percentage to improve the passing?

[JustBuzzin]

Lol I'm done talking about it, but I just think it's wild to me. I've said enough about him. People talking about him like he's a poor mans Ricky Davis or something

Nobody is saying that. I am speaking for me I just don't view him as our 2nd best player on the team. He's a good scorer but he doesn't really do anything positive besides scoring. His apg look good on the stat sheet until you actually see him passing in the game. He will miss wide open guys just to get his shot. If he played more of a team game then I would absolutely give him the 2nd best player title.

My issue with Rozier is he takes a lot of shots. I just want to see us play more team ball. When you continuously pass up wide open shots for your teammates it makes you look selfish.

Yet the year before Clifford arrived we led the league in assists with Terry playing 33 minutes per game. Year before that we were third in assists with Terry playing 34 minutes per game.

You don't think maybe the lack of ball movement has something to do with Clifford playing the guys on our team that have the lowest assist percentage on the team like JT Thor, Nick Richards, Mark Williams, Bryce, Smith Jr and Brandon Miller. Your plan is to replace the guy with the 2nd highest assist percentage on the team with guys that have a worse assist percentage to improve the passing?

No my plan is to trade Rozier for some value. As great as he is playing it's not helping us win games. We need to start focusing on our future guys. Seeing guys like Chet/Wemby/Scoot being featured is going to help them develop much faster. We have the #2 overall pick maybe we should start putting more team oriented players around Melo/Miller/Mark.

Love Rozier and Hayward but it's time we move on they are not helping this team win games. Let's start playing around our young core. Getting rid of high usage players like Rozier and Hayward will create more opportunities for other guys to step up.

[KingCat]

So apparently the Warriors want a championship level starter wing. A lot figure they will go for Siakam, but if that plan fails, Miles would be a logical plan B for them.

I'm way more intrigued in the benefits of a Miles trade than a Terry one.

[MPM]

Another one of my both sides kinda win/kinda lose trade ideas (a la Gordo for John Collins).

Gordo and Nick for Wiggins and Looney.

Gets Kerr out of the Kuminga/Wiggins kerfuffle by allowing him to commit to new timeline guy while installing an all-arounder, old-timeline guy in Gordo that can provide this-year value of the bench - and gets GSW out of Wiggins contract. Gives us an under-contract wing defender who you hope will revert back to historic 3 pt % form with Looney as a lateral move to make #'s work.

Anyway - getting value for Gordo idears.

(of course, if Kuminga really is done with Kerr - which I seriously doubt - they could make hay this year by packaging him for Siakam)

[fatlever]

i like the miles for kuminga idea

[MPM]

i like the miles for kuminga idea

Yeah, it seems unlikely seeing as Kuminga is under contract for a couple more years and Miles' bird rights go away in trade but if GSW is stupid/smug enough to think they can make it work, I would be the last to try and stop them - would be a steal.

Siakam is a big contract that's also an expiring but they could move Paul and Kuminga to make it work and I believe (might be wrong) they would retain bird rights.

[Diop]

i like the miles for kuminga idea

Yeah, it seems unlikely seeing as Kuminga is under contract for a couple more years and Miles' bird rights go away in trade but if GSW is stupid/smug enough to think they can make it work, I would be the last to try and stop them - would be a steal.

Siakam is a big contract that's also an expiring but they could move Paul and Kuminga to make it work and I believe (might be wrong) they would retain bird rights.

this helps though

Read on Twitter

[JustBuzzin]

I would definitely entertain Miles for Kuminga.

[KingCat]

Regardless, I hope we heavily look into dealing Miles to the desperate teams that lose out in the Siakam sweepstakes (although I know it's unlikely due to some new CBA shenanigans).