NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued)

[hardenASG13]

There isnt a tough match up for Embiid, did you guys miss what he did vs the best defensive team in basketball. The Celtics relatively do ok vs him but lately he is a nightmare. Possession to Possession he puts a lot of presure on the defense.

Exactly. He and other MVP candidates are matchup proof, hence why they are MVP candidates. The mental gymnastics guys here are doing to devalue (saying hes ducking "tough matchups") a guy averaging 35/11/6 are pathetic and sad. There's no tough matchup for him, he isnt avoiding anything, thats just absurd thinking.I'm sure he was scared to go up against Sengun and Goga Bitadze recently lol.

[losmi]

There isnt a tough match up for Embiid, did you guys miss what he did vs the best defensive team in basketball. The Celtics relatively do ok vs him but lately he is a nightmare. Possession to Possession he puts a lot of presure on the defense.

Exactly. He and other MVP candidates are matchup proof, hence why they are MVP candidates. The mental gymnastics guys here are doing to devalue (saying hes ducking "tough matchups") a guy averaging 35/11/6 are pathetic and sad. There's no tough matchup for him, he isnt avoiding anything, thats just absurd thinking.I'm sure he was scared to go up against Sengun and Goga Bitadze recently lol.

He is averaging those numbers because he is ducking tough matchups so they are not included in the average. To say why he would duck anyone when he averages those numbers is a logical fallacy.

Mental gymnastics is needed just to justify why he ducked Jokic last year, in the midst of his awful MVP campaign, the same day when his PR launched simultaneous media attacks. That must have been the most embarrassing moment in the history of this award.

[iggymcfrack]

Real good chance Embiid doesn’t play enough games, which I think would be a dumb reason for someone not to get MVP. I get the rationale but the voters should factor that and decide on their own he didn’t play enough rather than not being able to vote for him.

I don't care what the reason is, I don't see how a player can miss 7 out his team's 10 biggest road games and still be the most valuable player. Even moreso when his 2 closest competitors have very arguable numbers on a per minute basis and play >95% of their team's games. Requirements or not, Embiid is not one of the 2 most valuable players in the league this year.

I don't he's averaging 35/11/6. He's pretty valuable

So? Shai’s averaging 31/6/6/3 with 1.5 less turnovers per game and he actually shows up every game to lead his team to big wins. Also the Thunder have a better point differential with Shai on the floor than the Sixers do with Embiid even though Embiid’s played 9 road games, 9 above average defenses, and 10 playoff teams in his 25 games.

[iggymcfrack]

I don't see how this isn't Embiid.

35/12/6/1/2 with a TS of 65.1%, a PER of 34.9 and a BPM of 12.6

We might be looking at the best regular seasons of all time.

Let’s try cumulative stats:
SGA: 6.7 WS, 3.4 VORP, 8.3 EPM EW
Embiid: 5.6 WS, 3.2 VORP, 7.3 EPM EW

Sixers have played more games than the Thunder too. How about team performance?

SGA: +13.9 NetRtg, +17.1 on/off
Embiid: +12.9 NetRtg, +7.3 on/off

And again, the Thunder have played a much tougher schedule with SGA than the Sixers have with Embiid. The only reason SGA isn’t the MVP frontrunner right now is lack of name value from semi-casuals.

[hardenASG13]

There isnt a tough match up for Embiid, did you guys miss what he did vs the best defensive team in basketball. The Celtics relatively do ok vs him but lately he is a nightmare. Possession to Possession he puts a lot of presure on the defense.

Exactly. He and other MVP candidates are matchup proof, hence why they are MVP candidates. The mental gymnastics guys here are doing to devalue (saying hes ducking "tough matchups") a guy averaging 35/11/6 are pathetic and sad. There's no tough matchup for him, he isnt avoiding anything, thats just absurd thinking.I'm sure he was scared to go up against Sengun and Goga Bitadze recently lol.

He is averaging those numbers because he is ducking tough matchups so they are not included in the average. To say why he would duck anyone when he averages those numbers is a logical fallacy.

Mental gymnastics is needed just to justify why he ducked Jokic last year, in the midst of his awful MVP campaign, the same day when his PR launched simultaneous media attacks. That must have been the most embarrassing moment in the history of this award.

Who do you consider a tough matchup and why do you think it's a tough matchup? Like, who can slow him down? Some of you are way more into last year's MVP race than the players who were involved, coming up with conspiracies etc

[hardenASG13]

I don't care what the reason is, I don't see how a player can miss 7 out his team's 10 biggest road games and still be the most valuable player. Even moreso when his 2 closest competitors have very arguable numbers on a per minute basis and play >95% of their team's games. Requirements or not, Embiid is not one of the 2 most valuable players in the league this year.

I don't he's averaging 35/11/6. He's pretty valuable

So? Shai’s averaging 31/6/6/3 with 1.5 less turnovers per game and he actually shows up every game to lead his team to big wins. Also the Thunder have a better point differential with Shai on the floor than the Sixers do with Embiid even though Embiid’s played 9 road games, 9 above average defenses, and 10 playoff teams in his 25 games.

If you want to argue Shai is having the better season its a legit case. My main reason to jumping into this thread is to point out the ridiculous notion that Embiid is ducking 'tough' opponents. There is nobody tough for him, just as there isn't for Shai, Jokic, Doncic, etc.

[iggymcfrack]

Exactly. He and other MVP candidates are matchup proof, hence why they are MVP candidates. The mental gymnastics guys here are doing to devalue (saying hes ducking "tough matchups") a guy averaging 35/11/6 are pathetic and sad. There's no tough matchup for him, he isnt avoiding anything, thats just absurd thinking.I'm sure he was scared to go up against Sengun and Goga Bitadze recently lol.

He is averaging those numbers because he is ducking tough matchups so they are not included in the average. To say why he would duck anyone when he averages those numbers is a logical fallacy.

Mental gymnastics is needed just to justify why he ducked Jokic last year, in the midst of his awful MVP campaign, the same day when his PR launched simultaneous media attacks. That must have been the most embarrassing moment in the history of this award.

Who do you consider a tough matchup and why do you think it's a tough matchup? Like, who can slow him down? Some of you are way more into last year's MVP race than the players who were involved, coming up with conspiracies etc

Whether he's ducking or not, it's undeniable that Embiid's played a crazy easy schedule.

Games played: 8 above average defenses, 17 below average defenses, 9 road games, 16 home games
Games missed: 7 above average defenses, 0 below average defenses, 7 road games, 0 home games

Edit: Was giving Embiid credit for 9 above average defenses faced just assuming Milwaukee fit the bill and then I remembered that their actually below average in DRtg this year. 18th at 116.0 against a league average of 1115.6.

[iggymcfrack]

I don't he's averaging 35/11/6. He's pretty valuable

So? Shai’s averaging 31/6/6/3 with 1.5 less turnovers per game and he actually shows up every game to lead his team to big wins. Also the Thunder have a better point differential with Shai on the floor than the Sixers do with Embiid even though Embiid’s played 9 road games, 9 above average defenses, and 10 playoff teams in his 25 games.

If you want to argue Shai is having the better season its a legit case. My main reason to jumping into this thread is to point out the ridiculous notion that Embiid is ducking 'tough' opponents. There is nobody tough for him, just as there isn't for Shai, Jokic, Doncic, etc.

You really think the guy whose numbers fall off more in the playoffs than anyone in the history of the NBA has such resilient offense that he's gonna put up the same numbers against Boston, Minnesota, and Orlando that he is against Atlanta, Washington, and Charlotte? Like his whole argument is that he has slightly better numbers than SGA, but he literally has 10 games against bottom 5 defenses. 4 of his 5 best games by game score are against the bottom 3 defenses in the league. Throw out the games against Washington, Charlotte, and Detroit and that 35 PPG average that his fanboys are so proud of dips to 33.3 PPG. He'd be second in scoring behind Luka and only 2 PPG ahead of SGA.

[Cubbies2120]

There isnt a tough match up for Embiid, did you guys miss what he did vs the best defensive team in basketball. The Celtics relatively do ok vs him but lately he is a nightmare. Possession to Possession he puts a lot of presure on the defense.

Exactly. He and other MVP candidates are matchup proof, hence why they are MVP candidates. The mental gymnastics guys here are doing to devalue (saying hes ducking "tough matchups") a guy averaging 35/11/6 are pathetic and sad. There's no tough matchup for him, he isnt avoiding anything, thats just absurd thinking.I'm sure he was scared to go up against Sengun and Goga Bitadze recently lol.

So are you arguing that Embiid would be putting up the numbers he's putting up if he played the tough competition as well?

Cause I can break this down really easily for you...

Embiid plays OBJECTIVELY WORSE on the road than he does at home. This is fact. This is true for 99.9% of the league. DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS EASILY VERIFIABLE FACT?

He: Scores less, rebounds less, assists less, shoots worse, turns it over more...this is FACT.

Next...

Embiid plays OBJECTIVELY WORSE vs. top 10 teams than he does against bottom 20 teams. This is fact. This is true for 99.9% of the league. DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS EASILY VERIFIABLE FACT?

Now, look at FIVE YEARS of data (~80 games), and look at the....COINCIDENCE that he happens to sit out road games at a 2:1 ratio, and when he misses games against top 10 teams, it tends to be the road games. Even on nights where he's load managing.

Now, when you consider #1 (He plays worse on the road) and #2 (He plays worse vs. top 10 teams), and then #3 (He tends to miss games where #1 or #2 are true at a statistically significant rate)...well, you can see why people are questioning things, no?

For what it's worth, I do believe that the xmas day missed game was due to an actual injury. It's hilarious, though, when he sits out for soreness...like, EVERY player is sore, that's soft as baby chit.

You can point at 1 game sample sizes all you want, Embiid fans love to do that to discredit larger sample sizes

[eyeatoma]

So? Shai’s averaging 31/6/6/3 with 1.5 less turnovers per game and he actually shows up every game to lead his team to big wins. Also the Thunder have a better point differential with Shai on the floor than the Sixers do with Embiid even though Embiid’s played 9 road games, 9 above average defenses, and 10 playoff teams in his 25 games.

If you want to argue Shai is having the better season its a legit case. My main reason to jumping into this thread is to point out the ridiculous notion that Embiid is ducking 'tough' opponents. There is nobody tough for him, just as there isn't for Shai, Jokic, Doncic, etc.

You really think the guy whose numbers fall off more in the playoffs than anyone in the history of the NBA has such resilient offense that he's gonna put up the same numbers against Boston, Minnesota, and Orlando that he is against Atlanta, Washington, and Charlotte? Like his whole argument is that he has slightly better numbers than SGA, but he literally has 10 games against bottom 5 defenses. 4 of his 5 best games by game score are against the bottom 3 defenses in the league. Throw out the games against Washington, Charlotte, and Detroit and that 35 PPG average that his fanboys are so proud of dips to 33.3 PPG. He'd be second in scoring behind Luka and only 2 PPG ahead of SGA.

Why do his numbers fall? Is he ever injured in the playoffs?

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[hardenASG13]

There isnt a tough match up for Embiid, did you guys miss what he did vs the best defensive team in basketball. The Celtics relatively do ok vs him but lately he is a nightmare. Possession to Possession he puts a lot of presure on the defense.

Exactly. He and other MVP candidates are matchup proof, hence why they are MVP candidates. The mental gymnastics guys here are doing to devalue (saying hes ducking "tough matchups") a guy averaging 35/11/6 are pathetic and sad. There's no tough matchup for him, he isnt avoiding anything, thats just absurd thinking.I'm sure he was scared to go up against Sengun and Goga Bitadze recently lol.

So are you arguing that Embiid would be putting up the numbers he's putting up if he played the tough competition as well?

Cause I can break this down really easily for you...

Embiid plays OBJECTIVELY WORSE on the road than he does at home. This is fact. This is true for 99.9% of the league. DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS EASILY VERIFIABLE FACT?

He: Scores less, rebounds less, assists less, shoots worse, turns it over more...this is FACT.

Next...

Embiid plays OBJECTIVELY WORSE vs. top 10 teams than he does against bottom 20 teams. This is fact. This is true for 99.9% of the league. DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS EASILY VERIFIABLE FACT?

Now, look at FIVE YEARS of data (~80 games), and look at the....COINCIDENCE that he happens to sit out road games at a 2:1 ratio, and when he misses games against top 10 teams, it tends to be the road games. Even on nights where he's load managing.

Now, when you consider #1 (He plays worse on the road) and #2 (He plays worse vs. top 10 teams), and then #3 (He tends to miss games where #1 or #2 are true at a statistically significant rate)...well, you can see why people are questioning things, no?

For what it's worth, I do believe that the xmas day missed game was due to an actual injury. It's hilarious, though, when he sits out for soreness...like, EVERY player is sore, that's soft as baby chit.

You can point at 1 game sample sizes all you want, Embiid fans love to do that to discredit larger sample sizes

He's averaging 35/11/6 on the road this year too, and this thread is discussing this seasons MVP, right?

Also, no I don't agree that superstars like embiid play worse on the road. It's literally what makes them superstars. They deliver night after night, regardless of location and opponent. The same can be said of guys like SGA, Jokic, Luka, etc. They play great basically every game. This is nonsense.

[hardenASG13]

If you want to argue Shai is having the better season its a legit case. My main reason to jumping into this thread is to point out the ridiculous notion that Embiid is ducking 'tough' opponents. There is nobody tough for him, just as there isn't for Shai, Jokic, Doncic, etc.

You really think the guy whose numbers fall off more in the playoffs than anyone in the history of the NBA has such resilient offense that he's gonna put up the same numbers against Boston, Minnesota, and Orlando that he is against Atlanta, Washington, and Charlotte? Like his whole argument is that he has slightly better numbers than SGA, but he literally has 10 games against bottom 5 defenses. 4 of his 5 best games by game score are against the bottom 3 defenses in the league. Throw out the games against Washington, Charlotte, and Detroit and that 35 PPG average that his fanboys are so proud of dips to 33.3 PPG. He'd be second in scoring behind Luka and only 2 PPG ahead of SGA.

Why do his numbers fall? Is he ever injured in the playoffs?

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Bingo. That's the reason they drop, because he can't move the same. I'm not an embiid diehard, just an NBA fan, but that's plain to see to anybody thinking neutrally and watching the games. The injuries are the only legit knock, as it's been a problem. It's why he sits meaningless regular season games sometimes.

[eyeatoma]

Embiid 22 points before the end of the 1st half. That midrange game, is there any player who is better at it at this point. KD? That it?

[Hussien Fatal]

Embiid after a Four game absence has 22 points 8 rebounds 6 assists in the first half versus the bulls…MVP

[MrBigShot]

Embiid has played well enough for voters to disregard his playoff woes I think, if the race was neck and neck like last year it would probably be a diff story.

Bummer for SGA who is having an all time great season himself, but he'll get his chance.

[Hussien Fatal]

Embiid is the best player on the planet right now. Anybody debating otherwise is just a hater or they just have zero clue what they are talking about.

He’s the clear front runner for MVP and idc how many games he’s missed so far. Tonight he is most likely going to score 35 plus and he will likely sit out the 4th again because he is absolutely crushing the bulls right now.

[Woodsanity]

I said over a week ago embiid would return to statpad against the bulls and behold.

[bigboi]

Embiid still king, dudes a beast lol.

[eyeatoma]

Embiid with 31 points, 15 rebounds, 10 assists, 2 blocks, 1 steal and 2 threes, in 3 quarters....

EMVPIID!!

[XtremeDunkz]

30 point triple double in 3 quarters for Embiid

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