2023-2024 Regular Season Game 33: Orlando Magic (19-13) at Golden State Warriors (15-17) - 10pm

[ibraheim718]

Mosley won't be the coach passed the 2026 season. Bookmark the page. Or they'll bring him in some help. I don't even recognize any of his staff.

Jesse Mermuys!!! I want this guy canned. Who are these coaches on his staff? One dude was the coach of the German team so I understand why he's there. And fire Lionel Chalmers too.. he was a terrible basketball player.

In all seriousness.. they're back to losing games they can win. Bummer but the slumps and valleys were always going to come.

[VFX]

Guys can have a few bad games lmao…

The larger issue is twofold. It’s shooting and turnovers at point guard. Inconsistency at that position with a rookie starting and playing 10-14mpg isn’t going to cut it. This was talked about all offseason.

Cole and Suggs both having a bad stretch of games just further highlights this. Cole is a backup and Suggs isn’t a point guard.

[ibraheim718]

Tyus and Kispert please and thank you

It's not going to do much. Right now you're looking at Paolo elevating his game even more for the contending to happen and the rest of the guys getting a little better. Paolo is always going to have the ball in his hands at the end of games.

[SOUL]

Mose isn't an offensive genius but he has literally a rookie PG learning the game, Suggs who is improving but not really a PG, and an injured Fultz as his point guards.. oh, and Cole who is an SG in a PG's body.

I think there are interesting and creative ideas that he can do as far as singular plays go, especially in crunch time, but I am against the notion that there is some offensive juggernaut in the waiting and we're just simply choosing to not abuse some spam that is blatantly obvious to the entire coaching staff and the players themselves.

[fateis007]

Guys can have a few bad games lmao…

The larger issue is twofold. It’s shooting and turnovers at point guard. Inconsistency at that position with a rookie starting and playing 10-14mpg isn’t going to cut it. This was talked about all offseason.

Cole and Suggs both having a bad stretch of games just further highlights this.

When your team needs a shot in the arm of slow mo Jo, you know were ****

[RichCollab]

TOs and defensive intensity were the factors we can and need to control. That’s how we are currently constructed.

We need to move on from a couple of our often injured players and add 1 elite shooter to the SL.

[Knightro]

FVV given his size and diminishing defensive ability would hurt what the Magic would do defensively. Offensively they would be better but given that Fred is strictly a 3 point shooter who isn't the strongest finisher/penetrator the money for paying that guy 40 million doesn't make sense to me.

Honestly to me you add him to the team as constructed now there wouldn't be much of a difference.

Now you're willing to dismantle an elite bench and for only solid production. That to me doesn't make any sense trade off wise.

The Rockets are 6th in DRTG with FVV playing over 37 MPG. He’s clearly not hindering them on that end of the floor whatsoever.

What part of the elite bench am I dismantling anyway? It would only be Ingles not here. And frankly, the Magic could have probably signed him with the room exemption if they really wanted to. No one else wanted him at anywhere close to $11M. The Magic only gave him that because they weren’t anywhere close to the tax and wanted another big expiring for the possibility of trades.

And even if FVV meant not Ingles, Joe’s playmaking being gone wouldn’t be nearly as big of an issue with FVV playing 35 MPG as a plus playmaker and also sending one of Black/Suggs to the bench.

The Cole/Suggs pairing was incredibly effective a year ago off the bench without Ingles even being here fwiw.

[richi_v25]

What ever happened to Cole being 6th man of the year, the past 2 weeks i don't think he's even hit his own average of 14pt? We really need both JI's back.

[ibraheim718]

Had the size advantage and didn't even take advantage of it.

I can already hear Coach start off with his coined phrase where he states what went wrong but you have to give credit to *insert team name here*

Tell me why? What's the reasoning behind it? They got away with Klay Thompson and Kuminga on Banchero. Banchero should have been working one side of the floor from the low block. He can play make from there too. They did a couple of times.. it worked.. one bucket and two free throws and then instead Wagner out by the hash mark forced a pass into Banchero who can't catch it.. over and back. But blame the shooting.

It was there all night. I agree with you. If not to score, he will at least draw defenders which will open up cutting lanes and/or open looks for 3 (not our best strength). It's much better than have Franz or Paolo ISO against a set defense that has the paint shrunk.

He can do what they want him to do from there. He had already done it and Kerr still didn't move Klay off of him.

[VFX]

Guys can have a few bad games lmao…

The larger issue is twofold. It’s shooting and turnovers at point guard. Inconsistency at that position with a rookie starting and playing 10-14mpg isn’t going to cut it. This was talked about all offseason.

Cole and Suggs both having a bad stretch of games just further highlights this.

When your team needs a shot in the arm of slow mo Jo, you know were ****

It’s true.

There are countless threads talking about this and why it was important to address instead of gambling on Fultz to hit some mythological level of improvement never before seen in league history.

FVV was one answer that wasn’t really palatable for some people because of the salary. FO needs to put their big boy pants on a find answers.

[JojoSlimbiid]

The big thing I'm worried about is I'm not sure you can wrangle away this sort of ISO heavy style of offense away from two early 20 Year olds that are accumulating stats and praise. At a certain point this just becomes who they are. We're not there yet for sure and things can still change but the more individual success they have playing this way the harder it is going to be to get the more ball movement later on when the roster is ready.

[pepe1991]

Warriors brodcasting team pointed out in 4th quater, with like 7 min to play, that we have no offense to run. Just isolation to Banchero, nobody cuts, nobody moves off ball. People just stand and watch.

[JF5]

Stick FVV in as the starting lead guard means you're able to bring Black or Suggs off the bench.

The only guy you wouldn't have is Ingles and his playmaking wouldn't be all that necessary with FVV here.

FVV given his size and diminishing defensive ability would hurt what the Magic would do defensively. Offensively they would be better but given that Fred is strictly a 3 point shooter who isn't the strongest finisher/penetrator the money for paying that guy 40 million doesn't make sense to me.

Honestly to me you add him to the team as constructed now there wouldn't be much of a difference.

Now you're willing to dismantle an elite bench and for only solid production. That to me doesn't make any sense trade off wise.

Diminshing defense, yet he's playing great defensively and Houston is ranked 6th in the league

Saying adding him wouldnt make much of a difference is just a lie.

He shoots 39% from 3 with 7.6 attempts per game. That would do wonders to our team.

I'm saying with what the Magic do defensively. They have their guards hound the ball from point of attack. Fultz/Suggs/Black all do this while FVV at this stage of his career is more laid back into a team oriented defense.

Him trying to play that sort of defense here would kill him. As I mentioned I believe the tradeoff would be defensively equal to offense. They'd be a better offense. But given how FVV plays it would be slightly better. And again this is adjacent to his contract (which is allstar level money) and him being injury prone. Would the Magic be completely better off potentially gutting their rotation for a solid production? To me that makes no sense at this stage.

[SOUL]

Warriors brodcasting team pointed out in 4th quater, with like 7 min to play, that we have no offense to run. Just isolation to Banchero, nobody cuts, nobody moves off ball. People just stand and watch.

Looked different with Ingles ;(

[fateis007]

At this point id give McClung some burn, someone to bring some life into our guard play. Dude is playing his ass off in the gleague.

[JojoSlimbiid]

What is the purpose of the Fred Van fleet stuff? Is he on this team? I'm so confused. I'm pretty sure he signed with the rockets

[ibraheim718]

Mose isn't an offensive genius but he has literally a rookie PG learning the game, Suggs who is improving but not really a PG, and an injured Fultz as his point guards.. oh, and Cole who is an SG in a PG's body.

I think there are interesting and creative ideas that he can do as far as singular plays go, especially in crunch time, but I am against the notion that there is some offensive juggernaut in the waiting and we're just simply choosing to not abuse some spam that is blatantly obvious to the entire coaching staff and the players themselves.

I'm not saying that.. what I am saying is the team really struggles the last 4 minutes of the game largely in part to Franchero dribbling the ball out high passed the 3 pt line. Like it's a trend.. last half of the 4th the offense struggles.

I always give context.. why not run a high PnR with Anthony as the ball handler and Paolo as the screener to get Paolo a touch at the elbow?

The looks at the end of games are bad too.. they come late in the shot clock. If George Karl or Rick Carlisle coached this team they wouldn't be running this same kind of possessions.

He deliberately scatters his ball handlers to the corners to let Paolo attack off the dribble. It doesn't work.

I think they are content letting Paolo struggle closing games through the early years and hope it pays off later. It'll probably work because he's only 21.

Grant Hill even said tonight it doesn't feel like Orlando has a guy that can close the game out yet.

[Knightro]

The big thing I'm worried about is I'm not sure you can wrangle away this sort of ISO heavy style of offense away from two early 20 Year olds that are accumulating stats and praise. At a certain point this just becomes who they are. We're not there yet for sure and things can still change but the more individual success they have playing this way the harder it is going to be to get the more ball movement later on when the roster is ready.

I think this is absolutely a fair point.

Letting these guys do whatever they want certainly has some player and skill development benefits, but there’s also some clear downsides to it from a maximizing winning perspective when you look at it more broadly.

[Knightro]

What is the purpose of the Fred Van fleet stuff? Is he on this team? I'm so confused. I'm pretty sure he signed with the rockets

He did.

The Magic absolutely could have signed him this summer and chose not to and in retrospect, to me at least, that looks like a significant error.

[SOUL]

Season started looking iffy once we got injured again.

Early on, bench unit was rolling and had experience and cohesion. Now there's debates with Black-Fultz and Goga-WCJ as well as half of our bench always being out.