Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas

[Prez]

The last couple LOB pods have had quite the somber tone as well. Not gonna speak for anyone, but Frank seemed like he was trying his absolute best not to have the words "the defense is a lost cause and it's a coaching issue" slip out of his mouth. Justin Garcia did an entire pod breaking down the defensive problems and how literally nothing is showing signs of improvement.

Really kind of stunning to think about it. This team is 25-10, yet the amount of pessimism we're seeing from some of the more criticism-averse local media outlets is incredibly telling. Griffin is just so visibly not qualified in every aspect here. The only thing you can hope for at this point is a front-office and/or players intervention to tell him flat out "change the way we're defending because this **** clearly isn't working and never will"...

Yeah it's definitely shifting. Still don't think we're fully there though, still think the schedule being soft is kinda hurting us in that regard and giving more ammunition to the "R-E-L-A-X we're 25-10" crowd. We've played like two tier 1 contenders this entire season, pre Harden trade Philly on opening night which I'm not even sure how much weight I put on that game tbh. The other being the loss to Boston. And there's been a bunch of bad performances that we ended up winning purely on the back of Giannis and/or Dame being amazing and/or outlier shooting.

- The recent Cavs win where we scraped by despite them missing Garland/Mobley and shooting 0/22 on wide open 3s
- The 3 point win over the 2 win Wizards
- This last win against the 5-28 Spurs where we needed 44/15/7 from Giannis to win by 4
- Being competitive with (until they pulled away at the end) and giving up 122 to the Nets G-Leaguers, when they were down Claxton, Cam Johnson, Dinwiddie, DFS, and only played Mikal/Cam Thomas 12 minutes each
- The nail biter against Portland where we had to come back from down 26 lol
- The 2 pt win against Detroit early in their losing streak
- The 4pt win against Brooklyn where they started Ben Simmons at C and we gave up 45 to Cam Thomas lol

The position we're in now is dangerous because our record is pretty enough for a lot of people to pretend like everything's fine, all until they get dismantled by a contender in a playoff series. Thankfully like you said there are media members starting to call it out more. And with the schedule ramping up here soon, hopefully that forces changes.

[tydett]

Bud wasn't the answer anymore, but I don't think Griff can handle this either. It's just too big of a job for a first time head coach.

I will say, I'm not sure this is a first time head coach problem so much as it is a Griffin problem. He is almost wholly incompetent at the organizational aspect of coaching, and he will probably never get another shot at the head seat after this season.

Realize what he's trying to do with our team that has two very good defenders and then imagine him even on a young team with players who are even more prone to mistakes than our guys. Nobody is taking a chance on that unless they want a tank commander, and even then you want one who can hopefully instill a few good habits into their players.

[Siefer]

I don't think folks are ignoring the W/L record.

I think the W/L is properly reflecting that our top end talent is absolutely fantastic, and we've played a relatively easy schedule. But watching the games, and digging into the numbers show a really disorganized team that is confused on defense, is out of position on the glass, and can't get back in transition. Even on offense, having 3 top 20 offense guys who naturally stress defenses in complimentary ways is covering for the fact that they're often not really running much, and not actively working with each other.

I'm on the record as thinking we can win a chip in spite of the coaching - that's me being really high on our talent! I think we have the best top 3 in basketball. I also think we're actively making things harder for ourselves in multiple ways, and unnecessarily shrinking our margin for error. Our front line is so good, and our offense so dynamic, that we should be the ones leaving teams with little margin for error.

[Prez]

Bud wasn't the answer anymore, but I don't think Griff can handle this either. It's just too big of a job for a first time head coach.

I will say, I'm not sure this is a first time head coach problem so much as it is a Griffin problem. He is almost wholly incompetent at the organizational aspect of coaching, and he will probably never get another shot at the head seat after this season.

Realize what he's trying to do with our team that has two very good defenders and then imagine him even on a young team with players who are even more prone to mistakes than our guys. Nobody is taking a chance on that unless they want a tank commander, and even then you want one who can hopefully instill a few good habits into their players.

Yeah, there have been plenty of first time NBA head coaches that are outright elite immediately or were at least promising and definitely ready to coach at this level but the roster just wasn't good enough.

Kerr, Nurse, Udoka, Stevens, Will Hardy, Mike Brown, Mark Daigneault, Finch, Thibs when he first joined the Bulls etc.

Like if you gave us last year's Will Hardy (in his very first HC season), we're looking miles better right now. Griffin is just horrendous.

[Prez]

Brook and whatever for Kuminga and filler. I have put 5 seconds of thought into this trade proposal so take that into consideration when poking holes in it lol.

Read on Twitter

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[Ron Swanson]

Brook and whatever for Kuminga and filler. I have put 5 seconds of thought into this trade proposal so take that into consideration when poking holes in it lol.

Read on Twitter

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The fact that I'm actually entertaining Brook + stuff for Wiggins and Kuminga is kinda depressing, but maybe it's actually better for both teams at this point? Maybe throw a GP2 for Pat swap in there while we're at it.

[EasyE31]

I still don't think there is a coach that can make this defense much above adequate with this personal, but if guys liks SAS are killing Griff than there is probably something behind the scenes that is a problem that he has heard about.

Idk I’d think the combo of Giannis and Brook alone under a coach who knows what he’s doing could get us to at least a less pathetic defense.

Yes we still need perimeter defenders but we should be able to guard the paint.

Definitely agree that behind the scenes stuff is probably happening either way and being discussed off the record.

I agree the defense isnt great but everyone saying this sort of stuff is just not living in reality.

The truth is that if you exclude the first 5 games of the year (when they weren't playing drop) the Bucks have the 15th ranked defense by Defensive Rating. Thats a 30 game sample with a league average defense. Griffin has obviously done more than "get us to at least a less pathetic defense".

I'm not saying its good enough - they clearly need to make some adjustments and add at the deadline. But lets at least acknowledge that this isn't a bottom ten defense thats completely hopeless.

[German Athens]

Brook and whatever for Kuminga and filler. I have put 5 seconds of thought into this trade proposal so take that into consideration when poking holes in it lol.

Read on Twitter

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The fact that I'm actually entertaining Brook + stuff for Wiggins and Kuminga is kinda depressing, but maybe it's actually better for both teams at this point? Maybe throw a GP2 for Pat swap in there while we're at it.

Shocked to see you with a Wiggins trade proposal, even if you may see Kuminga as the bigger target. I’d do that trade, but I’d be very sad to see Brook go.

[drdrG]

Brook and whatever for Kuminga and filler. I have put 5 seconds of thought into this trade proposal so take that into consideration when poking holes in it lol.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

The fact that I'm actually entertaining Brook + stuff for Wiggins and Kuminga is kinda depressing, but maybe it's actually better for both teams at this point? Maybe throw a GP2 for Pat swap in there while we're at it.

Brook would be a great fit on a smart Warriors team. Brook + Marjon + 2nd for Wiggins, Kuminga would get us a lot closer to a Griffin system. It would necessitate a follow-up move for a serviceable big.

[KidA24]

I still don't think there is a coach that can make this defense much above adequate with this personal, but if guys liks SAS are killing Griff than there is probably something behind the scenes that is a problem that he has heard about.

Idk I’d think the combo of Giannis and Brook alone under a coach who knows what he’s doing could get us to at least a less pathetic defense.

Yes we still need perimeter defenders but we should be able to guard the paint.

Definitely agree that behind the scenes stuff is probably happening either way and being discussed off the record.

I agree the defense isnt great but everyone saying this sort of stuff is just not living in reality.

The truth is that if you exclude the first 5 games of the year (when they weren't playing drop) the Bucks have the 15th ranked defense by Defensive Rating. Thats a 30 game sample with a league average defense. Griffin has obviously done more than "get us to at least a less pathetic defense".

I'm not saying its good enough - they clearly need to make some adjustments and add at the deadline. But lets at least acknowledge that this isn't a bottom ten defense thats completely hopeless.

Those 30 games they have played:

Brooklyn twice (without multiple starters), Detroit Twice, Portland, Chicago three times and Washington twice.

That's 1/3 of their games against the bottom 6 in the league in their ability to score.

It would be difficult to not have an average defense over that stretch.

[Prez]

Idk I’d think the combo of Giannis and Brook alone under a coach who knows what he’s doing could get us to at least a less pathetic defense.

Yes we still need perimeter defenders but we should be able to guard the paint.

Definitely agree that behind the scenes stuff is probably happening either way and being discussed off the record.

I agree the defense isnt great but everyone saying this sort of stuff is just not living in reality.

The truth is that if you exclude the first 5 games of the year (when they weren't playing drop) the Bucks have the 15th ranked defense by Defensive Rating. Thats a 30 game sample with a league average defense. Griffin has obviously done more than "get us to at least a less pathetic defense".

I'm not saying its good enough - they clearly need to make some adjustments and add at the deadline. But lets at least acknowledge that this isn't a bottom ten defense thats completely hopeless.

Those 30 games they have played:

Brooklyn twice (without multiple starters), Detroit Twice, Portland, Chicago three times and Washington twice.

That's 1/3 of their games against the bottom 6 in the league in their ability to score.

It would be difficult to not have an average defense over that stretch.

Also we've been extremely lucky in terms of opponent 3PT shooting over that stretch as well, literally the lowest opponent 3PT% by a decent margin on wide open 3s. And 5th lowest on open 3s.

If we keep playing the caliber of defense we're playing without changes, when the schedule actually starts to get difficult and opponent 3PT shooting numbers on open and wide open 3s start regressing closer to the mean, it'll be ugly.

[Frank Nova]

Brook and whatever for Kuminga and filler. I have put 5 seconds of thought into this trade proposal so take that into consideration when poking holes in it lol.

Read on Twitter

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Let’s throw in Bobby and Pat, add in a 3rd team and get real crazy.

[EasyE31]

Brook and whatever for Kuminga and filler. I have put 5 seconds of thought into this trade proposal so take that into consideration when poking holes in it lol.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Might also be a chance to go after Wiggins who has looked better recently if the Warriors decide they want to commit to Kuminga.

[EasyE31]

Those 30 games they have played:

Brooklyn twice (without multiple starters), Detroit Twice, Portland, Chicago three times and Washington twice.

That's 1/3 of their games against the bottom 6 in the league in their ability to score.

It would be difficult to not have an average defense over that stretch.[/quote]


They've also played:

Pacers (x5), Celtics, Mavericks, Knicks (x3)

That's 1/3 of their games against the top 10 in the league in offensive rating.

[SirChurros]

Brook and whatever for Kuminga and filler. I have put 5 seconds of thought into this trade proposal so take that into consideration when poking holes in it lol.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

The fact that I'm actually entertaining Brook + stuff for Wiggins and Kuminga is kinda depressing, but maybe it's actually better for both teams at this point? Maybe throw a GP2 for Pat swap in there while we're at it.

Brook would be a great fit on a smart Warriors team. Brook + Marjon + 2nd for Wiggins, Kuminga would get us a lot closer to a Griffin system. It would necessitate a follow-up move for a serviceable big.

[DingleJerry]

Side note, how is it comfortable for Robin to sit on the floor like he does for 2 hours? I would think that is very bad on the back. Why not roll out a cot for him to lay on. Also, he sits so close to the floor it shouldn't be allowed, he's had to move to avoid players. He should be told to move back 3 feet or go lay down in the locker room and take a nap

[EasyE31]

I agree the defense isnt great but everyone saying this sort of stuff is just not living in reality.

The truth is that if you exclude the first 5 games of the year (when they weren't playing drop) the Bucks have the 15th ranked defense by Defensive Rating. Thats a 30 game sample with a league average defense. Griffin has obviously done more than "get us to at least a less pathetic defense".

I'm not saying its good enough - they clearly need to make some adjustments and add at the deadline. But lets at least acknowledge that this isn't a bottom ten defense thats completely hopeless.

Those 30 games they have played:

Brooklyn twice (without multiple starters), Detroit Twice, Portland, Chicago three times and Washington twice.

That's 1/3 of their games against the bottom 6 in the league in their ability to score.

It would be difficult to not have an average defense over that stretch.

Also we've been extremely lucky in terms of opponent 3PT shooting over that stretch as well, literally the lowest opponent 3PT% by a decent margin on wide open 3s. And 5th lowest on open 3s.

If we keep playing the caliber of defense we're playing without changes, when the schedule actually starts to get difficult and opponent 3PT shooting numbers on open and wide open 3s start regressing closer to the mean, it'll be ugly.

The 3pt variance thing is so wildly over rated as a metric. The difference between the best 3pt shooting team in the league (OKC at 39.7%) and the worst (MEM at 33.3%) seems huge at 6.4%. But, on average teams are shooting about 35 3s per game and converting on 39.7% vs 33.3% only adds about 5-6 points per game. And thats the spread between the best and worst.

The spread between best and average (Warriors shooting 36.9%) you are only talking about 3 points per game.

The Bucks luck there could shift quite a bit and it wouldn't materially impact scoring defense.

[Ron Swanson]

Those 30 games they have played:

Brooklyn twice (without multiple starters), Detroit Twice, Portland, Chicago three times and Washington twice.

That's 1/3 of their games against the bottom 6 in the league in their ability to score.

It would be difficult to not have an average defense over that stretch.

Also we've been extremely lucky in terms of opponent 3PT shooting over that stretch as well, literally the lowest opponent 3PT% by a decent margin on wide open 3s. And 5th lowest on open 3s.

If we keep playing the caliber of defense we're playing without changes, when the schedule actually starts to get difficult and opponent 3PT shooting numbers on open and wide open 3s start regressing closer to the mean, it'll be ugly.

The 3pt variance thing is so wildly over rated as a metric. The difference between the best 3pt shooting team in the league (OKC at 39.7%) and the worst (MEM at 33.3%) seems huge at 6.4%. But, on average teams are shooting about 35 3s per game and converting on 39.7% vs 33.3% only adds about 5-6 points per game. And thats the spread between the best and worst.

The spread between best and average (Warriors shooting 36.9%) you are only talking about 3 points per game.

The Bucks luck there could shift quite a bit and it wouldn't materially impact scoring defense.

Sure, and you just described why any defense that makes "defending the 3PT line" at the expense of everything else a completely backwards philosophy in the modern NBA.

[DingleJerry]

And another reason that Bud guy wasn't so dumb

[KidA24]

Those 30 games they have played:

Brooklyn twice (without multiple starters), Detroit Twice, Portland, Chicago three times and Washington twice.

That's 1/3 of their games against the bottom 6 in the league in their ability to score.

It would be difficult to not have an average defense over that stretch.

Also we've been extremely lucky in terms of opponent 3PT shooting over that stretch as well, literally the lowest opponent 3PT% by a decent margin on wide open 3s. And 5th lowest on open 3s.

If we keep playing the caliber of defense we're playing without changes, when the schedule actually starts to get difficult and opponent 3PT shooting numbers on open and wide open 3s start regressing closer to the mean, it'll be ugly.

The 3pt variance thing is so wildly over rated as a metric. The difference between the best 3pt shooting team in the league (OKC at 39.7%) and the worst (MEM at 33.3%) seems huge at 6.4%. But, on average teams are shooting about 35 3s per game and converting on 39.7% vs 33.3% only adds about 5-6 points per game. And thats the spread between the best and worst.

The spread between best and average (Warriors shooting 36.9%) you are only talking about 3 points per game.

The Bucks luck there could shift quite a bit and it wouldn't materially impact scoring defense.

And 3 ppg is the difference between being 14th and 25th defensively in the league.