2023-24 Regular Season

[toooskies]

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Haven't seen how much money is actually involved in the buyout terms, but there's potential to have the money to fill one or both roster spots.

[jbk1234]

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Haven't seen how much money is actually involved in the buyout terms, but there's potential to have the money to fill one or both roster spots.

I suspect that this won't get it done. We'll be lucky if it covers the cost of converting CPJ's contract and remaining under the line. This the third consecutive client of Schwartz who we've had to buy out due to that player being dissatisfied with his role and/or unwilling to play.

[JujitsuFlip]

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Haven't seen how much money is actually involved in the buyout terms, but there's potential to have the money to fill one or both roster spots.

I suspect that this won't get it done. We'll be lucky if it covers the cost of converting CPJ's contract and remaining under the line. This the third consecutive client of Schwartz who we've had to buy out due to that player being dissatisfied with his role and/or unwilling to play.

Wow, good point.

Drummond, Love, and Rubio.

Edit: i was thinking about it Zizic signed overseas during the pandemic before the bubble was even over too.

[JujitsuFlip]

The timing is probably because 10 day contracts can start being signed tomorrow and Tristan and Merrill become fully guaranteed next week.

[JujitsuFlip]

With Rubio bought out, I assume that opens up space for CPJ to be converted to a full-time roster spot

I'd wait on that, he still has 18 games left on his two-way eligibility, no rush to get him off that cheap deal.

Cavs are now at 13 players and won't have to get to 14 players until 2 weeks from now, at that juncture I'd just sign someone to a 10 day contract. Then if they just let the 10 day guy expire that will get the Cavs through the trade deadline before they have to go back to 14 players.

At that point Mobley and Garland should be back and if CPJ dresses for every game his eligibility will run out a little bit before the All-Star break but after the trade deadline.

Cavs gonna have to be very strategic if they wanna avoid the tax this season, assuming Rubio gave back almost no money like Drummond and Love before him.

[JonFromVA]

With Rubio bought out, I assume that opens up space for CPJ to be converted to a full-time roster spot

I'd wait on that, he still has 18 games left on his two-way eligibility, no rush to get him off that cheap deal.

Cavs are now at 13 players and won't have to get to 14 players until 2 weeks from now, at that juncture I'd just sign someone to a 10 day contract. Then if they just let the 10 day guy expire that will get the Cavs through the trade deadline before they have to go back to 14 players.

At that point Mobley and Garland should be back and if CPJ dresses for every game his eligibility will run out a little bit before the All-Star break but after the trade deadline.

Cavs gonna have to be very strategic if they wanna avoid the tax this season, assuming Rubio gave back almost no money like Drummond and Love before him.

We may be able to stretch whatever we owe Ricky, but if we become a tax paying team - I expect we'd end up having to pay tax on that money.

[JujitsuFlip]

With Rubio bought out, I assume that opens up space for CPJ to be converted to a full-time roster spot

I'd wait on that, he still has 18 games left on his two-way eligibility, no rush to get him off that cheap deal.

Cavs are now at 13 players and won't have to get to 14 players until 2 weeks from now, at that juncture I'd just sign someone to a 10 day contract. Then if they just let the 10 day guy expire that will get the Cavs through the trade deadline before they have to go back to 14 players.

At that point Mobley and Garland should be back and if CPJ dresses for every game his eligibility will run out a little bit before the All-Star break but after the trade deadline.

Cavs gonna have to be very strategic if they wanna avoid the tax this season, assuming Rubio gave back almost no money like Drummond and Love before him.

We may be able to stretch whatever we owe Ricky, but if we become a tax paying team - I expect we'd end up having to pay tax on that money.

Deadline to stretch Rubio was back in August.

Whatever he didn't give back is on our books for this season. We'll see what they decided with next season's money.

Drummond gave back $794,536 and turned around and signed with the Lakers for that same amount (a $554,988 cap hit).

Love gave back $1.5 million and turned around and signed with the Heat for $3,114,138.

So without knowing what Rubio will sign for in Spain, it's hard to estimate what he gave back. He only had $3,597,859 left on his deal this season, it would be awesome if he gave all of that back but looking at Schwartz greed through the years, he probably gave little to none of it back.

[toooskies]

I'd wait on that, he still has 18 games left on his two-way eligibility, no rush to get him off that cheap deal.

Cavs are now at 13 players and won't have to get to 14 players until 2 weeks from now, at that juncture I'd just sign someone to a 10 day contract. Then if they just let the 10 day guy expire that will get the Cavs through the trade deadline before they have to go back to 14 players.

At that point Mobley and Garland should be back and if CPJ dresses for every game his eligibility will run out a little bit before the All-Star break but after the trade deadline.

Cavs gonna have to be very strategic if they wanna avoid the tax this season, assuming Rubio gave back almost no money like Drummond and Love before him.

We may be able to stretch whatever we owe Ricky, but if we become a tax paying team - I expect we'd end up having to pay tax on that money.

Deadline to stretch Rubio was back in August.

Whatever he didn't give back is on our books for this season. We'll see what they decided with next season's money.

Drummond gave back $794,536 and turned around and signed with the Lakers for that same amount (a $554,988 cap hit).

Love gave back $1.5 million and turned around and signed with the Heat for $3,114,138.

So without knowing what Rubio will sign for in Spain, it's hard to estimate what he gave back. He only had $3,597,859 left on his deal this season, it would be awesome if he gave all of that back but looking at Schwartz greed through the years, he probably gave little to none of it back.

To fill the roster with CPJ on a rookie minimum and another player on a veteran minimum contract from the start of the season, we'd need $3m in cap space. I think those both would be prorated for the rest of the season on our cap sheet, but may be the full number for CPJ, not sure. So right now we're probably at less than $2m in cap space needed to fill the roster with CPJ + vet min, and that number will drop as the season progresses.

So my guess is that Ricky gave back at least $2.5m of his $7m in guarantees to enable the Cavs to fill the roster at some point in buyout market season.

[JonFromVA]

We may be able to stretch whatever we owe Ricky, but if we become a tax paying team - I expect we'd end up having to pay tax on that money.

Deadline to stretch Rubio was back in August.

Whatever he didn't give back is on our books for this season. We'll see what they decided with next season's money.

Drummond gave back $794,536 and turned around and signed with the Lakers for that same amount (a $554,988 cap hit).

Love gave back $1.5 million and turned around and signed with the Heat for $3,114,138.

So without knowing what Rubio will sign for in Spain, it's hard to estimate what he gave back. He only had $3,597,859 left on his deal this season, it would be awesome if he gave all of that back but looking at Schwartz greed through the years, he probably gave little to none of it back.

To fill the roster with CPJ on a rookie minimum and another player on a veteran minimum contract from the start of the season, we'd need $3m in cap space. I think those both would be prorated for the rest of the season on our cap sheet, but may be the full number for CPJ, not sure. So right now we're probably at less than $2m in cap space needed to fill the roster with CPJ + vet min, and that number will drop as the season progresses.

So my guess is that Ricky gave back at least $2.5m of his $7m in guarantees to enable the Cavs to fill the roster at some point in buyout market season.

We might want to be able to offer CPJ more than just a minimum deal to get him locked up at a cost controlled number for as long as possible.

fwiw, Ty Jerome's name wasn't on the injury list .vs. the Wizards and he was officially listed as "did not dress".

[JujitsuFlip]

We may be able to stretch whatever we owe Ricky, but if we become a tax paying team - I expect we'd end up having to pay tax on that money.

Deadline to stretch Rubio was back in August.

Whatever he didn't give back is on our books for this season. We'll see what they decided with next season's money.

Drummond gave back $794,536 and turned around and signed with the Lakers for that same amount (a $554,988 cap hit).

Love gave back $1.5 million and turned around and signed with the Heat for $3,114,138.

So without knowing what Rubio will sign for in Spain, it's hard to estimate what he gave back. He only had $3,597,859 left on his deal this season, it would be awesome if he gave all of that back but looking at Schwartz greed through the years, he probably gave little to none of it back.

To fill the roster with CPJ on a rookie minimum and another player on a veteran minimum contract from the start of the season, we'd need $3m in cap space. I think those both would be prorated for the rest of the season on our cap sheet, but may be the full number for CPJ, not sure. So right now we're probably at less than $2m in cap space needed to fill the roster with CPJ + vet min, and that number will drop as the season progresses.

So my guess is that Ricky gave back at least $2.5m of his $7m in guarantees to enable the Cavs to fill the roster at some point in buyout market season.

I hope you're right and that would make sense.

Cavs already had $752,000 below the tax so Rubio really didn't have to give us too much back to fill spots 14 and 15.

[JujitsuFlip]

Deadline to stretch Rubio was back in August.

Whatever he didn't give back is on our books for this season. We'll see what they decided with next season's money.

Drummond gave back $794,536 and turned around and signed with the Lakers for that same amount (a $554,988 cap hit).

Love gave back $1.5 million and turned around and signed with the Heat for $3,114,138.

So without knowing what Rubio will sign for in Spain, it's hard to estimate what he gave back. He only had $3,597,859 left on his deal this season, it would be awesome if he gave all of that back but looking at Schwartz greed through the years, he probably gave little to none of it back.

To fill the roster with CPJ on a rookie minimum and another player on a veteran minimum contract from the start of the season, we'd need $3m in cap space. I think those both would be prorated for the rest of the season on our cap sheet, but may be the full number for CPJ, not sure. So right now we're probably at less than $2m in cap space needed to fill the roster with CPJ + vet min, and that number will drop as the season progresses.

So my guess is that Ricky gave back at least $2.5m of his $7m in guarantees to enable the Cavs to fill the roster at some point in buyout market season.

We might want to be able to offer CPJ more than just a minimum deal to get him locked up at a cost controlled number for as long as possible.

fwiw, Ty Jerome's name wasn't on the injury list .vs. the Wizards and he was officially listed as "did not dress".

Seems a formality, as he's still out. At this point he can be thrown in any trade, even though his contract is tiny.

With the emergence of CPJ he's not needed. He did carve us up last season but he's just Windler 2.0 now.

[toooskies]

Fun fact: more than half the Cavs' rotation (Mitchell, Mobley, Strus, Wade, Niang, Okoro) are averaging personal career highs in rebounding. The Cavs are 12th in DRB% this year, even better than last year despite Love's departure. (The Cavs were a bad defensive rebounding team after Love was benched.)

Good on JBB for addressing our rebounding issues from last year with coaching, development, and/or motivation.

[JujitsuFlip]

Fun fact: more than half the Cavs' rotation (Mitchell, Mobley, Strus, Wade, Niang, Okoro) are averaging personal career highs in rebounding. The Cavs are 12th in DRB% this year, even better than last year despite Love's departure. (The Cavs were a bad defensive rebounding team after Love was benched.)

Good on JBB for addressing our rebounding issues from last year with coaching, development, and/or motivation.

Outside of Strus, I'd say that has next to nothing to do with Jb and a direct result of all the injuries.

[ijspeelman]

Fun fact: more than half the Cavs' rotation (Mitchell, Mobley, Strus, Wade, Niang, Okoro) are averaging personal career highs in rebounding. The Cavs are 12th in DRB% this year, even better than last year despite Love's departure. (The Cavs were a bad defensive rebounding team after Love was benched.)

Good on JBB for addressing our rebounding issues from last year with coaching, development, and/or motivation.

Outside of Strus, I'd say that has next to nothing to do with Jb and a direct result of all the injuries.

Without doing the research, I think its fair to say it was a point of contention and was fixed to a degree.

Its not like with our injuries we have larger players to play in place.

[toooskies]

Fun fact: more than half the Cavs' rotation (Mitchell, Mobley, Strus, Wade, Niang, Okoro) are averaging personal career highs in rebounding. The Cavs are 12th in DRB% this year, even better than last year despite Love's departure. (The Cavs were a bad defensive rebounding team after Love was benched.)

Good on JBB for addressing our rebounding issues from last year with coaching, development, and/or motivation.

Outside of Strus, I'd say that has next to nothing to do with Jb and a direct result of all the injuries.

I disagree. It's true on a per-36 basis and not just a result of anyone getting more minutes.

[JujitsuFlip]

Fun fact: more than half the Cavs' rotation (Mitchell, Mobley, Strus, Wade, Niang, Okoro) are averaging personal career highs in rebounding. The Cavs are 12th in DRB% this year, even better than last year despite Love's departure. (The Cavs were a bad defensive rebounding team after Love was benched.)

Good on JBB for addressing our rebounding issues from last year with coaching, development, and/or motivation.

Outside of Strus, I'd say that has next to nothing to do with Jb and a direct result of all the injuries.

I disagree. It's true on a per-36 basis and not just a result of anyone getting more minutes.

Per 36 is trash, it's strictly an estimation, never meets reality.

[JujitsuFlip]

Fun fact: more than half the Cavs' rotation (Mitchell, Mobley, Strus, Wade, Niang, Okoro) are averaging personal career highs in rebounding. The Cavs are 12th in DRB% this year, even better than last year despite Love's departure. (The Cavs were a bad defensive rebounding team after Love was benched.)

Good on JBB for addressing our rebounding issues from last year with coaching, development, and/or motivation.

Outside of Strus, I'd say that has next to nothing to do with Jb and a direct result of all the injuries.

Without doing the research, I think its fair to say it was a point of contention and was fixed to a degree.

Its not like with our injuries we have larger players to play in place.

Rebounding isn't about being a larger human, it's about opportunity.

Wade and Mitchell are playing their highest MPG of their career as well.

Mobley's rebounding went up at the expense of Allen... Allen averaging 8.3 RPG (would be the lowest mark of his career outside his rookie season), since Mobley went down Allen is averaging 11.4 RPG that would clock in at his career high.

If you want to say Okoro's rebounds went up marginally, I'll concede that but guy is in a contract year, he better be trying harder.

Jb didn't all of a sudden figure out how to become a competent basketball coach lol the reasons are very easy to understand as why some guys numbers slightly went up.

[toooskies]

Outside of Strus, I'd say that has next to nothing to do with Jb and a direct result of all the injuries.

Without doing the research, I think its fair to say it was a point of contention and was fixed to a degree.

Its not like with our injuries we have larger players to play in place.

Rebounding isn't about being a larger human, it's about opportunity.

Wade and Mitchell are playing their highest MPG of their career as well.

Mobley's rebounding went up at the expense of Allen... Allen averaging 8.3 RPG (would be the lowest mark of his career outside his rookie season), since Mobley went down Allen is averaging 11.4 RPG that would clock in at his career high.

If you want to say Okoro's rebounds went up marginally, I'll concede that but guy is in a contract year, he better be trying harder.

Jb didn't all of a sudden figure out how to become a competent basketball coach lol the reasons are very easy to understand as why some guys numbers slightly went up.

You can't both say per-minute numbers are trash and then say that the only reason they're doing more is their minutes went up. Using per-minute or per-possession stats is how you adjust for changing minutes.

Let's look at per-possession if you'd prefer.

Mitchell's career high in TRB% was 7.1% until this year at 8.5%.

Wade's career high in TRB% (in seasons where he played more than 100 minutes) was 9.9%, this year it's 11.8%.

Allen's rebounding went down because he was recovering from injury at the beginning of the year. His 8.3 rebounds were in 28 minutes a game. If he were playing 32, you'd assume he'd get a rebound or two in those 4 extra minutes. (If you do some math, you'd expect about 9.5 rebounds if he played the same number of minutes.) His TRB% is currently nearly identical year-to-year-- 17.8 last year, 17.7 this year.

Mobley, meanwhile didn't take Allen's minutes. He added 1.5 rebounds while playing a career low in minutes. His TRB% jumped from 15.4% to 17.3%.

Strus's highest TRB% was 7.3% before this season (not counting his 6-minute year in Chicago) and this year it's 8.2%.

Okoro's highest TRB% was 6.7% and this year, 7%. His fluctuation in minutes over the years has kind of masked that he did a lot better last year than previously.

Niang's TRB% isn't a career best at 9.0%, although it's as good as he's had since he played 516 minutes in 2018-19.

-------------

Still hate per-possession? Let's look at team-wide for the entire game: This year the Cavs are out-rebounding the other team 44.6-42.6 and last year they were out-rebounded 41.2-41.1, despite us missing one of Mobley or Allen in 18 of our 34 games this year-- whereas last year they missed 17 games combined. (And note that Love was a bigger loss rebounding-wise than TT has been a benefit.)

[JonFromVA]

Fun fact: more than half the Cavs' rotation (Mitchell, Mobley, Strus, Wade, Niang, Okoro) are averaging personal career highs in rebounding. The Cavs are 12th in DRB% this year, even better than last year despite Love's departure. (The Cavs were a bad defensive rebounding team after Love was benched.)

Good on JBB for addressing our rebounding issues from last year with coaching, development, and/or motivation.

Small quibble, because I think we have made progress, but while we are 12th in DRB% this season the team is at 75.9% .vs. 76.3% last season.

Tristan is still a solid rebounder and unlike Kevin's gaudy rebounding numbers it doesn't come at the expense of defense or another player's chances of grabbing a board.

[JujitsuFlip]

You can't both say per-minute numbers are trash and then say that the only reason they're doing more is their minutes went up. Using per-minute or per-possession stats is how you adjust for changing minutes.

I 100% can say the worthless stat per-36 is a useless estimation while saying that the guys per game #s increased due to having more opportunities afforded to them, because of injury... It's not some large stretch lol