2023-24 Regular Season

[JonFromVA]

You can't both say per-minute numbers are trash and then say that the only reason they're doing more is their minutes went up. Using per-minute or per-possession stats is how you adjust for changing minutes.

I 100% can say the worthless stat per-36 is a useless estimation while saying that the guys per game #s increased due to having more opportunities afforded to them, because of injury... It's not some large stretch lol

I think the point you're trying to make is with one of Allen or Mobley out so much and Kevin off the team that there are going to be more rebounds spread around to other players.

toooskies response to this is that we're out-rebounding our opponents more often this season, but that can be more a reflection of our opponents.

And as I pointed out, our TRB% has gone down slightly from last year.

I do feel like there is more of an emphasis on everyone rebounding this year, and keeping our rebound numbers up even with Allen and Mobley missing minutes and Love gone is significant UNLESS it's happening because Garland and Mitchell are missing minutes.

It's a complex problem, but hate to say it, I think you'd find it easier to hop on board this theory if you were able to watch the games.

Besides, there are plenty more reasons for you to hate on JBB.

[JujitsuFlip]

You can't both say per-minute numbers are trash and then say that the only reason they're doing more is their minutes went up. Using per-minute or per-possession stats is how you adjust for changing minutes.

I 100% can say the worthless stat per-36 is a useless estimation while saying that the guys per game #s increased due to having more opportunities afforded to them, because of injury... It's not some large stretch lol

I think the point you're trying to make is with one of Allen or Mobley out so much and Kevin off the team that there are going to be more rebounds spread around to other players.

toooskies response to this is that we're out-rebounding our opponents more often this season, but that can be more a reflection of our opponents.

And as I pointed out, our TRB% has gone down slightly from last year.

I do feel like there is more of an emphasis on everyone rebounding this year, and keeping our rebound numbers up even with Allen and Mobley missing minutes and Love gone is significant UNLESS it's happening because Garland and Mitchell are missing minutes.

It's a complex problem, but hate to say it, I think you'd find it easier to hop on board this theory if you were able to watch the games.

Besides, there are plenty more reasons for you to hate on JBB.

Not just Love gone and one of the twin towers out but literally just the sheer volume of injuries.

It's no coincidence that the guys who have been the most healthy on the team are accumulating the stats. It's an easy correlation to make.

And hey, i would gladly watch the Cavs, i watch the NBA almost every night on league pass anyways, that's something Silver needs to fix.

[toooskies]

You can't both say per-minute numbers are trash and then say that the only reason they're doing more is their minutes went up. Using per-minute or per-possession stats is how you adjust for changing minutes.

I 100% can say the worthless stat per-36 is a useless estimation while saying that the guys per game #s increased due to having more opportunities afforded to them, because of injury... It's not some large stretch lol

So what do you mean by "estimation" and why do you consider that to be trash? Because to me it's amazingly useful when comparing year-to-year.

[ijspeelman]

You can't both say per-minute numbers are trash and then say that the only reason they're doing more is their minutes went up. Using per-minute or per-possession stats is how you adjust for changing minutes.

I 100% can say the worthless stat per-36 is a useless estimation while saying that the guys per game #s increased due to having more opportunities afforded to them, because of injury... It's not some large stretch lol

I think the point you're trying to make is with one of Allen or Mobley out so much and Kevin off the team that there are going to be more rebounds spread around to other players.

toooskies response to this is that we're out-rebounding our opponents more often this season, but that can be more a reflection of our opponents.

And as I pointed out, our TRB% has gone down slightly from last year.

I do feel like there is more of an emphasis on everyone rebounding this year, and keeping our rebound numbers up even with Allen and Mobley missing minutes and Love gone is significant UNLESS it's happening because Garland and Mitchell are missing minutes.

It's a complex problem, but hate to say it, I think you'd find it easier to hop on board this theory if you were able to watch the games.

Besides, there are plenty more reasons for you to hate on JBB.

Its worth noting that the league average TRB% is down 0.8% so relative to the league we are up 0.4%...

[JujitsuFlip]

You can't both say per-minute numbers are trash and then say that the only reason they're doing more is their minutes went up. Using per-minute or per-possession stats is how you adjust for changing minutes.

I 100% can say the worthless stat per-36 is a useless estimation while saying that the guys per game #s increased due to having more opportunities afforded to them, because of injury... It's not some large stretch lol

So what do you mean by "estimation" and why do you consider that to be trash? Because to me it's amazingly useful when comparing year-to-year.

Bc all per-36 does is extrapolate the players stats by w.e multiple it requires their MPG to reach 36.

Okoro for example is playing 25.9 MPG so to get 36 the math is... 25.9 × 1.39

Therefore all Okoro's per 36 stat line is, is whatever that per game stat is multiplied by 1.39. Here, I'll do a couple to prove the math.

Okoro 8.8 PPG times 1.39 = 12.2
Okoro 3.3 RPG * 1.39 = 4.6
Okoro 2.2 APG x 1.39 = 3.0

You get the point. So, for me, i don't give a flying spaghetti monster what Okoro could hypothetically do in 36 MPG, it's useless. It by far has to be the worst stat out there.

[ijspeelman]

I 100% can say the worthless stat per-36 is a useless estimation while saying that the guys per game #s increased due to having more opportunities afforded to them, because of injury... It's not some large stretch lol

So what do you mean by "estimation" and why do you consider that to be trash? Because to me it's amazingly useful when comparing year-to-year.

Bc all per-36 does is extrapolate the players stats by w.e multiple it requires their MPG to reach 36.

Okoro for example is playing 25.9 MPG so to get 36 the math is... 25.9 × 1.39

Therefore all Okoro's per 36 stat line is, is whatever that per game stat is multiplied by 1.39. Here, I'll do a couple to prove the math.

Okoro 8.8 PPG times 1.39 = 12.2
Okoro 3.3 RPG * 1.39 = 4.6
Okoro 2.2 APG x 1.39 = 3.0

You get the point. So, for me, i don't give a flying spaghetti monster what Okoro could hypothetically do in 36 MPG, it's useless. It by far has to be the worst stat out there.

The nice thing about per 36 and especially per 100 or per 75 stats is that they show rate-based what is happening on the floor

For example, Collin Sexton right now is averaging only 4.5 FTA per game whereas Tyrese Maxey is averaging 5.6. One could extrapolate from this stat that Maxey is better at drawing fouls

However, on a possession-by-possession basis Collin Sexton averages .092 FTA per possession or 9.2/100 pos whereas Maxey averages .073 FTA per possession or 7.3/100 pos.

Maxey is more impactful with his FTAs due to his volume, but Sexton is better at drawing shooting fouls

So if a players TRB% or TRB/100 is going up, on a possession-by-possession basis they are better at rebounding than before

I think /100 stats are some of the of the most useful stats you can look at to see how a player plays. Biggest issue is increasing or decreasing minutes can affect their rate production as a player may be more tired, not get the same looks, be forced to do different roles, etc

[toooskies]

I 100% can say the worthless stat per-36 is a useless estimation while saying that the guys per game #s increased due to having more opportunities afforded to them, because of injury... It's not some large stretch lol

So what do you mean by "estimation" and why do you consider that to be trash? Because to me it's amazingly useful when comparing year-to-year.

Bc all per-36 does is extrapolate the players stats by w.e multiple it requires their MPG to reach 36.

Okoro for example is playing 25.9 MPG so to get 36 the math is... 25.9 × 1.39

Therefore all Okoro's per 36 stat line is, is whatever that per game stat is multiplied by 1.39. Here, I'll do a couple to prove the math.

Okoro 8.8 PPG times 1.39 = 12.2
Okoro 3.3 RPG * 1.39 = 4.6
Okoro 2.2 APG x 1.39 = 3.0

You get the point. So, for me, i don't give a flying spaghetti monster what Okoro could hypothetically do in 36 MPG, it's useless. It by far has to be the worst stat out there.

It is very useful to, say, figure out if Allen was getting fewer rebounds because he was getting fewer minutes or if he was getting fewer rebounds because he's playing worse.

[JonFromVA]

A lot of fans dismiss pure stats because some fans treat them as if they are predictive, but there's no such thing. A pure stat represents what has happened and at best suggests what might happen.

[JujitsuFlip]

So what do you mean by "estimation" and why do you consider that to be trash? Because to me it's amazingly useful when comparing year-to-year.

Bc all per-36 does is extrapolate the players stats by w.e multiple it requires their MPG to reach 36.

Okoro for example is playing 25.9 MPG so to get 36 the math is... 25.9 × 1.39

Therefore all Okoro's per 36 stat line is, is whatever that per game stat is multiplied by 1.39. Here, I'll do a couple to prove the math.

Okoro 8.8 PPG times 1.39 = 12.2
Okoro 3.3 RPG * 1.39 = 4.6
Okoro 2.2 APG x 1.39 = 3.0

You get the point. So, for me, i don't give a flying spaghetti monster what Okoro could hypothetically do in 36 MPG, it's useless. It by far has to be the worst stat out there.

It is very useful to, say, figure out if Allen was getting fewer rebounds because he was getting fewer minutes or if he was getting fewer rebounds because he's playing worse.

Per-36 doesn't do that.

It's a pure estimation without context. Per-36 makes no adjustments for anything happening on the floor... Pace, lineups, opposition, game situation.

All per-36 is, is a math equation. No more, no less.

[JujitsuFlip]

So what do you mean by "estimation" and why do you consider that to be trash? Because to me it's amazingly useful when comparing year-to-year.

Bc all per-36 does is extrapolate the players stats by w.e multiple it requires their MPG to reach 36.

Okoro for example is playing 25.9 MPG so to get 36 the math is... 25.9 × 1.39

Therefore all Okoro's per 36 stat line is, is whatever that per game stat is multiplied by 1.39. Here, I'll do a couple to prove the math.

Okoro 8.8 PPG times 1.39 = 12.2
Okoro 3.3 RPG * 1.39 = 4.6
Okoro 2.2 APG x 1.39 = 3.0

You get the point. So, for me, i don't give a flying spaghetti monster what Okoro could hypothetically do in 36 MPG, it's useless. It by far has to be the worst stat out there.

The nice thing about per 36 and especially per 100 or per 75 stats is that they show rate-based what is happening on the floor

One of these is not like the others.

Per 100 and per 75 are possession stats.

Per 36 is a very imprecise "normalization". The 36 number was pulled outta thin air, there are literally only 9 guys in the entire NBA averaging 36+ MPG, currently.

Furthermore, without accounting for possessions, per-36 loses relevance. 36 minutes in one game can look MUCH different than 36 minutes in another game.

As i said before, a trash stat.

[toooskies]

Bc all per-36 does is extrapolate the players stats by w.e multiple it requires their MPG to reach 36.

Okoro for example is playing 25.9 MPG so to get 36 the math is... 25.9 × 1.39

Therefore all Okoro's per 36 stat line is, is whatever that per game stat is multiplied by 1.39. Here, I'll do a couple to prove the math.

Okoro 8.8 PPG times 1.39 = 12.2
Okoro 3.3 RPG * 1.39 = 4.6
Okoro 2.2 APG x 1.39 = 3.0

You get the point. So, for me, i don't give a flying spaghetti monster what Okoro could hypothetically do in 36 MPG, it's useless. It by far has to be the worst stat out there.

The nice thing about per 36 and especially per 100 or per 75 stats is that they show rate-based what is happening on the floor

One of these is not like the others.

Per 100 and per 75 are possession stats.

Per 36 is a very imprecise "normalization". The 36 number was pulled outta thin air, there are literally only 9 guys in the entire NBA averaging 36+ MPG, currently.

Furthermore, without accounting for possessions, per-36 loses relevance. 36 minutes in one game can look MUCH different than 36 minutes in another game.

As i said before, a trash stat.

Your objection is that they chose a fixed number that isn't reflective of 2024 when they started using it a decade or two back?

It sounds like you object to any kind of statistical analysis. Do you object to averages, too?

[JujitsuFlip]

The nice thing about per 36 and especially per 100 or per 75 stats is that they show rate-based what is happening on the floor

One of these is not like the others.

Per 100 and per 75 are possession stats.

Per 36 is a very imprecise "normalization". The 36 number was pulled outta thin air, there are literally only 9 guys in the entire NBA averaging 36+ MPG, currently.

Furthermore, without accounting for possessions, per-36 loses relevance. 36 minutes in one game can look MUCH different than 36 minutes in another game.

As i said before, a trash stat.

Your objection is that they chose a fixed number that isn't reflective of 2024 when they started using it a decade or two back?

It sounds like you object to any kind of statistical analysis. Do you object to averages, too?

My objection is very clear. It is trash to just bring everyone in the league to 36 minutes, arbitrarily and say "okay now we can compare everyone on an even playing field (court)".

It removes all context, some guys play 10 minutes, 20 minutes, or 36+ minutes. Why on Earth would we just aimlessly multiply guys stats and say hey this is an estimation of what they hypothetically could do if they didn't get fatigued or in foul trouble or have to play against stiffer competition (starters).

Also to the bold, that's untrue, i value some advanced stats, per-36 has not and will not ever be one of them.

[toooskies]

One of these is not like the others.

Per 100 and per 75 are possession stats.

Per 36 is a very imprecise "normalization". The 36 number was pulled outta thin air, there are literally only 9 guys in the entire NBA averaging 36+ MPG, currently.

Furthermore, without accounting for possessions, per-36 loses relevance. 36 minutes in one game can look MUCH different than 36 minutes in another game.

As i said before, a trash stat.

Your objection is that they chose a fixed number that isn't reflective of 2024 when they started using it a decade or two back?

It sounds like you object to any kind of statistical analysis. Do you object to averages, too?

My objection is very clear. It is trash to just bring everyone in the league to 36 minutes, arbitrarily and say "okay now we can compare everyone on an even playing field (court)".

It removes all context, some guys play 10 minutes, 20 minutes, or 36+ minutes. Why on Earth would we just aimlessly multiply guys stats and say hey this is an estimation of what they hypothetically could do if they didn't get fatigued or in foul trouble or have to play against stiffer competition (starters).

Also to the bold, that's untrue, i value some advanced stats, per-36 has not and will not ever be one of them.

Yes, it's not a comprehensive view of the whole picture but neither is quoting Allen's raw stats without acknowledging that he was on a minutes restriction for nearly the entire time Mobley was healthy.

[JujitsuFlip]

Your objection is that they chose a fixed number that isn't reflective of 2024 when they started using it a decade or two back?

It sounds like you object to any kind of statistical analysis. Do you object to averages, too?

My objection is very clear. It is trash to just bring everyone in the league to 36 minutes, arbitrarily and say "okay now we can compare everyone on an even playing field (court)".

It removes all context, some guys play 10 minutes, 20 minutes, or 36+ minutes. Why on Earth would we just aimlessly multiply guys stats and say hey this is an estimation of what they hypothetically could do if they didn't get fatigued or in foul trouble or have to play against stiffer competition (starters).

Also to the bold, that's untrue, i value some advanced stats, per-36 has not and will not ever be one of them.

Yes, it's not a comprehensive view of the whole picture but neither is quoting Allen's raw stats without acknowledging that he was on a minutes restriction for nearly the entire time Mobley was healthy.

But that is my exact point toooskies. You believe it is far fetched to say Mobley would have more opportunities to grab rebounds with Allen out and/or on a minutes restriction from the medical staff?

[JujitsuFlip]

Read on Twitter

Haven't seen how much money is actually involved in the buyout terms, but there's potential to have the money to fill one or both roster spots.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2024/01/ricky-rubio-gave-up-5-4mm-in-cavs-buyout.html

Wow, he gave back a bunch of money, kudos Rubio!

"The Cavaliers’ team salary this season had been about $752K below the luxury tax line prior to the buyout, but that cushion has increased to approximately $3.2MM, Marks adds".

That's enough to fill 14 and 15 for sure, while staying below the tax line.

[JonFromVA]

Read on Twitter

Haven't seen how much money is actually involved in the buyout terms, but there's potential to have the money to fill one or both roster spots.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2024/01/ricky-rubio-gave-up-5-4mm-in-cavs-buyout.html

Wow, he gave back a bunch of money, kudos Rubio!

"The Cavaliers’ team salary this season had been about $752K below the luxury tax line prior to the buyout, but that cushion has increased to approximately $3.2MM, Marks adds".

That's enough to fill 14 and 15 for sure, while staying below the tax line.

That's great news ... I mean short of Ricky just announcing he was going to retire and give back the money he got this season ... but we knew that wasn't happening.

[JujitsuFlip]

Read on Twitter

Haven't seen how much money is actually involved in the buyout terms, but there's potential to have the money to fill one or both roster spots.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2024/01/ricky-rubio-gave-up-5-4mm-in-cavs-buyout.html

Wow, he gave back a bunch of money, kudos Rubio!

"The Cavaliers’ team salary this season had been about $752K below the luxury tax line prior to the buyout, but that cushion has increased to approximately $3.2MM, Marks adds".

That's enough to fill 14 and 15 for sure, while staying below the tax line.

That's great news ... I mean short of Ricky just announcing he was going to retire and give back the money he got this season ... but we knew that wasn't happening.

We'll see who the Cavs sign to a 10 day on January 18th, maybe Cooper.

From there, Cavs will rock with 13 until the trade deadline.

[JujitsuFlip]

Well, TT and Merrill are officially guaranteed, spots 12 and 13 are locked. Not that there was much question since TT became our back-up 5 and Merrill is our most efficient shooter.

I guess the true test is if they can continue to get consistent minutes once the Cavs get healthy.

[JujitsuFlip]

https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2024/01/when-will-darius-garland-return-to-cavs-lineup.html?outputType=amp

We have a Garland update, today marks 4 weeks he has been out.

I didn't know he had to have his jaw wired shut, which obviously required an all liquid diet.

Sounds like he's aiming to be back by the end of January but a lot of factors will go into that.

[toooskies]

Gotta go into asset protection mode, Toooskies... Not fight for a play-in spot.

Edit: the Cavs could realistically be 22-31 by the time Mobley is ready to suit up again.

Been thinking about this and decided to go find the quote. Hope we don't lose 16 in a row!

(We have a tough stretch coming up, though.)