Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread

[God Squad]

I find Grange to be clickbait at this point, he's wrong more than he's right, and writes/tweets a lot of hot takes to get picked up & referenced by US media just to get his name out there.

He's been doing the "sources close to those who know how Masai thinks" thing for a few years now, which has resulted in a more critical slant against the FO with some wild realgm-esque takes.

Oddshark came out 4 days ago with Dallas in the lead, followed by Memphis, followed by Atlanta/Indiana at +500, followed by Sacramento at +700 and the Warriors at like +1400. Here's what that tells me: the Raptors would like Atlanta/Indiana and Sacramento to include their best prospects and they haven't yet. Dallas and Memphis have the best proposals on the table. The Warriors aren't in the ballpark.

Masai will play this up until the Raptors rack up another losing streak and then do a call for a final offer. I'm gonna predict Memphis for role players and picks.

I'm curious, how would oddsmakers know more than reporters?

Walt.. Hii..

[RapsFanInOhio]

I’d rather let Siakam walk away for nothing and have about 35m in cap space than take Harrison Barnes back unless Keegan is included.

IQ’s cap hold will be pretty low.

That’s kind of the deadline TBD piece, right? If we were close to terms on an extension that would have likely been done by now. So if we keep him, there’s a very real risk he walks for nothing.

So are you confident you can re-sign him if it gets to that point? I don’t think him walking is really an option here, even if it is a possible outcome. If you don’t want to bring him back or if you only want to bring him back at a number that will be exceeded in the open market (likely what is going on) then you have to deal him or he’s walking. If you have to deal him, you’re holding out for the best possible deal but that may be Barnes-Huerter-Mitchell-1st. I would rather have that - and maybe move Schroeder for something - than have Siakam walk for nothing.

We should have learned this from the lack of a Fred deal last summer.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I find Grange to be clickbait at this point, he's wrong more than he's right, and writes/tweets a lot of hot takes to get picked up & referenced by US media just to get his name out there.

He's been doing the "sources close to those who know how Masai thinks" thing for a few years now, which has resulted in a more critical slant against the FO with some wild realgm-esque takes.

Oddshark came out 4 days ago with Dallas in the lead, followed by Memphis, followed by Atlanta/Indiana at +500, followed by Sacramento at +700 and the Warriors at like +1400. Here's what that tells me: the Raptors would like Atlanta/Indiana and Sacramento to include their best prospects and they haven't yet. Dallas and Memphis have the best proposals on the table. The Warriors aren't in the ballpark.

Masai will play this up until the Raptors rack up another losing streak and then do a call for a final offer. I'm gonna predict Memphis for role players and picks.

I'm curious, how would oddsmakers know more than reporters?

They would hear the same things.

[TorontoBarneys]

Davion is currently shooting 36 FG / 24 3PT.

Lets not go back to this.

Yeah for a top 10 pick, he's just flat out awful. I can't even entertain the idea that he's even an asset.

[Zeno]

I’d rather let Siakam walk away for nothing and have about 35m in cap space than take Harrison Barnes back unless Keegan is included.

IQ’s cap hold will be pretty low.

That’s kind of the deadline TBD piece, right? If we were close to terms on an extension that would have likely been done by now. So if we keep him, there’s a very real risk he walks for nothing.

So are you confident you can re-sign him if it gets to that point? I don’t think him walking is really an option here, even if it is a possible outcome. If you don’t want to bring him back or if you only want to bring him back at a number that will be exceeded in the open market (likely what is going on) then you have to deal him or he’s walking. If you have to deal him, you’re holding out for the best possible deal but that may be Barnes-Huerter-Mitchell-1st. I would rather have that - and maybe move Schroeder for something - than have Siakam walk for nothing.

We should have learned this from the lack of a Fred deal last summer.

taking salary you don't want is typically compensated by receiving picks in exchange. So this trade is essentially nothing but selling capspace for a 1st is we don't really want the players and their contracts. in other words, that offer is basically equal to him walking for nothing. The only thing you win is the pr game doing that trade. Same as if we took Kennard and a 1st for Fred.

[alpngso]

He's been doing the "sources close to those who know how Masai thinks" thing for a few years now, which has resulted in a more critical slant against the FO with some wild realgm-esque takes.

Oddshark came out 4 days ago with Dallas in the lead, followed by Memphis, followed by Atlanta/Indiana at +500, followed by Sacramento at +700 and the Warriors at like +1400. Here's what that tells me: the Raptors would like Atlanta/Indiana and Sacramento to include their best prospects and they haven't yet. Dallas and Memphis have the best proposals on the table. The Warriors aren't in the ballpark.

Masai will play this up until the Raptors rack up another losing streak and then do a call for a final offer. I'm gonna predict Memphis for role players and picks.

I'm curious, how would oddsmakers know more than reporters?

They would hear the same things.

Like how odds moved to Banchero being no.1 just hours before the draft. Things leak when there is a lot of people involved. Most of the times it doesn’t mean much but who knows

[Syd-TK3]

Its always been Indiana, if Siakam is ever traded I'm confident it will be to Indiana

[RapsFanInOhio]

That’s kind of the deadline TBD piece, right? If we were close to terms on an extension that would have likely been done by now. So if we keep him, there’s a very real risk he walks for nothing.

So are you confident you can re-sign him if it gets to that point? I don’t think him walking is really an option here, even if it is a possible outcome. If you don’t want to bring him back or if you only want to bring him back at a number that will be exceeded in the open market (likely what is going on) then you have to deal him or he’s walking. If you have to deal him, you’re holding out for the best possible deal but that may be Barnes-Huerter-Mitchell-1st. I would rather have that - and maybe move Schroeder for something - than have Siakam walk for nothing.

We should have learned this from the lack of a Fred deal last summer.

To add to this, $35 million in cap space evaporates pretty quickly when you factor in cap holds and restricted free agency. The market looks different on 7/10 than it does on 7/1, and we don’t have the best track record of bringing in high level guys in free agency.

Barnes and Huerter are both reasonable and short term deals who likely have at least some value in the future as both can shoot. I would rather have those assets as opposed to just cap space - we’ve been down that path enough to know that it isn’t reliable and creates depth issues. The failure to move Fred last year or Lowry in years past is, in part, why we’re so short on depth now. But I think they get this, because we’re at least not repeating ourselves with OG and found a solid deal there.

If they want expiring contracts, Hield + something from Indiana will get it done, because Siakam is a different quality player than OG or Fred and maybe even Lowry at that stage in his career. There is a price point for bringing in Siakam now and risking him walking if you’re a team with a large expiring that isn’t coming back next year, like Indiana or Golden State. Hield and Paul aren’t coming back to those teams, so even if Siakam walks, you end up in the same place. What’s the price of that? That’s what we’re working through right now. Is it Mathurin? Kuminga? Walker? We’re rightfully holding out for one of these teams to crack, and one of them will.

[TorontoBarneys]

What are the theoretical best offers Dallas and Memphis can line up without gutting their line-ups? Let's figure that out and move from there.

[KrazyP]

The we must trade Pascal because of his age thing is overrated.

The Wolves recognized they had a special talent in young Anthony Edwards so they went out and got old guys Conley/Gorbert and actually kept Towns who's approaching 30.

The Suns recongized they had a special talent in young Devin Booker but were a middling team until they decided to get mid 30s Paul and then got even more aggressive and got mid 30s Durant.

When the Bucks were building a team for young Giannis, they werent focused on youth, they slowly added vets like Jrue and Lopez to push forward.

Even the Celtics with the Jays were focused on talent around their youth regardless of age.

When Embiid was 23, 24ish, the 76ers got aggressive and traded for a 30 yr old Jimmy Butler...they just werent smart enough to keep/pay him.

If the Raps view Barnes as a special talent which I think they do, they should be looking to add the best fits around him for the next 3-4 yr window regardless of age....especially now that there looks to be some other young players on the roster that also have some upside.

With Siakam, the questions in my mind are:

(1) Fit.
Can Siakam and Barnes co-exist? The jury is still out on that one....the team certainly looks a lot better now then how they looked pre-trade....a lot of the issues before had to do with horrible spacing and an overall dearth of complimentary offensive talent.

(2) Does Siakam want to be here?
Management labeled him as "selfish" in the offseason and didnt extend him....why would he even want to stay? Ujiri/Webster kind of playing with fire giving him the Lowry treatment from a decade ago.....prove it, before we pay you?

(3) Is there a trade out there for the Raps that even makes sense?
Trading for middling prospects from middling teams or future draft picks isnt really going to move the yardstick forward all that much.

(4) Cap situation -
The cap is somewhat of a concern but its rising steadily so its something that can be worked around.

I am not against re-signing Pascal on a good deal for a future trade, but your examples showed how teams invested in Cs or added guys who compliment main guys well and helped teams get to a contender type of status or at least 50+ wins. Siakam isn't that guy for Toronto - no elite defense and not a great off ball threat.

Siakam is a guy you run your offense through. If he could pivot to being a non focal point than fine, but Barnes plays the same position and should be developed as a scorer/playmaker.

Regarding trades, Toronto gave up it's best defender and likely future DPOY candidate for two guys who fit well and balance out the scoring.

A Siakam trade could do the same. People we see as middling might just be young and in a weird situation. Barrett and Quickley being two starters is a very good trade. If Toronto can do that with Siakam, while getting good cost control, it makes sense.

The offense wasnt really running through Siakam during the championship or run it back seasons and he still had a significant impact. Teams looking to trade for Siakam today (Hawks, Pacers, Kings, Warriors) also wont run the offense through him either. Siakam is versatile enough to make an impact in a complimentary fashion if needed.....so to is Barnes. The concern about fit is valid but I still feel this teams struggles had more to do with having the leagues worst guard rotation than the Barnes-Siakam fit.

A trade still could make sense but if teams arent willing to give up guys like Jalen Johnson, Keegan Murray and Jonathan Kuminga then I'd rather just keep Siakam if hes willing to stay.

[Raptors Realtor]

What are the theoretical best offers Dallas and Memphis can line up without gutting their line-ups? Let's figure that out and move from there.

Dallas:
Lively (unlikely available)
Hardy
Green

Memphis:
Z Williams
Tillman
Roddy
Clarke
Kennard

I'm sure both teams would include future picks, but those players outside of maybe Lively are underwhelming.

[Yallbecrazy]

I actually really like Davion Mitchell. He's a ball hawk, and IMO one of the better perimeter defending guards in the game.

He doesn't get a ton of minutes because he's playing behind Fox, I really like his game. I think he can become an elite role player in the NBA. He needs a change of scenery.

I'm also a Huerter fan, he's been off this season, but his body of work suggests that this is a slump rather than the normal. He's also only 25, and would instantly become the best shooter on our team.

Poor man's Pat Beverly, with potential to be Pat Beverly

[ATLTimekeeper]

I'm curious, how would oddsmakers know more than reporters?

They would hear the same things.

Like how odds moved to Banchero being no.1 just hours before the draft. Things leak when there is a lot of people involved. Most of the times it doesn’t mean much but who knows

In the NBA, reporters are more like public relations for whomever gives them something to write about. Vegas is going to try and make money off the information they get.

[RapsFanInOhio]

I’d rather let Siakam walk away for nothing and have about 35m in cap space than take Harrison Barnes back unless Keegan is included.

IQ’s cap hold will be pretty low.

That’s kind of the deadline TBD piece, right? If we were close to terms on an extension that would have likely been done by now. So if we keep him, there’s a very real risk he walks for nothing.

So are you confident you can re-sign him if it gets to that point? I don’t think him walking is really an option here, even if it is a possible outcome. If you don’t want to bring him back or if you only want to bring him back at a number that will be exceeded in the open market (likely what is going on) then you have to deal him or he’s walking. If you have to deal him, you’re holding out for the best possible deal but that may be Barnes-Huerter-Mitchell-1st. I would rather have that - and maybe move Schroeder for something - than have Siakam walk for nothing.

We should have learned this from the lack of a Fred deal last summer.

taking salary you don't want is typically compensated by receiving picks in exchange. So this trade is essentially nothing but selling capspace for a 1st is we don't really want the players and their contracts. in other words, that offer is basically equal to him walking for nothing. The only thing you win is the pr game doing that trade. Same as if we took Kennard and a 1st for Fred.

But that’s the thing - we absolutely should have taken Kennard and a first last year for Fred. They made the mistake of thinking that they could re-sign Fred and move him later, but that didn’t happen. The only thing that “cap space” was used for is Schroeder, who you could have probably gotten anyway as he was signed with the MLE. The major difference is that in this case, you’re moving a better player. So maybe it’s a mid-range deal to match contracts that you’re taking, but you’re also getting something more of value than just a late first.

Those future firsts have actual value, regardless of if they’re protected or late. Same with guys like Kennard, Barnes, Huerter - reasonable contracts, movable, nothing long term that is going to prevent you from making future moves.

The Siakam cap space is only good for about one season - then the Barnes and Quickley extensions kick in and it’s effectively gone.

[Bruin]

At this point I just want an Indiana package or just keep Pascal

None of the potential packages from the other teams move me

[Yallbecrazy]

Kuminga TJD 1st and salary fillers for Siakam GTJ

You realize those salary fillers are $45 million?

[TorontoBarneys]

Best I can see from Memphis is like... Smart/Kennard/Zaire and a 1st, and maybe pick swaps. Maybe you can offload Smart for more expirings and minor draft considerations.

Indiana shouldn't have too much trouble beating that without doing any damage to their current roster.

[Tor_Raps]

Man, just re-sign Siakam. I have a feeling that he might say no because of how he's being treated here and walk away for nothing. This absolutely cannot happen!!

[redraptor77]

Am I the only one who doesn't want Mathurin?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

I think he is a great six man for now. Young can shoot handle super fast. If he matures he seems like the biggest break out potential player.
How come you don’t like him ?

I think he's too one dimensional, like a Trent (tunnel vision, undersized, cannot do much other than scoring), I know their games are very different though in terms of how they get their buckets. I see him as a high floor, low ceiling type of player. I'm not totally opposed to him (because of what else Indy can offer).

\
I can see that at times. He shows a little more than GTJ to me in terms of passing, not great but he goes in streaks where he gets 5, 6 assitst then all of a sudden he will go game with 0's. Not great but not the black hole GTJ seems to be. I really like his speed and how he attacks the defence, I think he is a much better ball handler than GTJ. Thinking of IQ, RJ, Barnes fit seems great and is a bit different then them also.
Out of all the guys that have been guessed upon:
He is head and shoulders above Moody, Kuminga, Mitchell, OO, Bufkin, etc in my opinon
Even much higher than Walker. We really dont even know if Walker, Bufkin are NBA players
NO clue who Dallas is offering but nothin I see excites me other than Lively. Memphis no idea either nothing too exciting that I can see

[WuTang_CMB]

Best I can see from Memphis is like... Smart/Kennard/Zaire and a 1st, and maybe pick swaps. Maybe you can offload Smart for more expirings and minor draft considerations.

Indiana shouldn't have too much trouble beating that without doing any damage to their current roster.

Zaire shows glimpses and has length/age on his side but just hasn't put it together yet. Darko knows him better than anyone.

But I think Memphis would offer something for him