GOAT 1v1 player (PG Edition)

[EasternHeretic]

In their prime, who do you have as your greatest Point Guard in 1 on 1, in a game of Twenty-one.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Probably should have a height restriction

I better not see a single Curry vote lmao

[70sFan]

Where is Magic? Oscar? These two would kill most of these guys one on one based on their size alone.

[The Explorer]

I would vote Oscar, but among the poll choices, I'm taking AI with Payton coming in 2nd place.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Who the hell voted Curry lol

[70sFan]

Who the hell voted Curry lol

Is Iverson a better choice (also has one vote)?

[JLei]

What's the rule set.

1s and 2s? straight 1s?

Shot clock? 5 or 10 seconds?
NBA style? Max 3 dribbles? Or as many as you want?
Losers Ball?

These matter a lot.

If it's backyard style where you have as much time as you want, Luka beats everyone if you are counting him. He's way too big.

NBA style? Kyrie.

[Owly]

As ever depends on the type of one-on-one a person assumes to be normal/plays etc.

"Outs" (possession after basket)
reffing leniency (physicality, handles)
ratio of "3" and "2" point value.
Other general "rules" (clock? anything equivalent to 5 seconds "Mark Jackson" rule so you can't just back down from the perimeter, "clearing" the ball required, consequence of shooting fouls [inc 3pt shooting fouls], I'm kind of assuming court dimensions, single basket/hoop, ball checked around 3pt line but there's not 1 official, global, "1v1" set of rules)
how is initial possession started (becomes more important if winner outs) - shot for?
assumed state of court, hoops

How these are assumed/interpreted give different advantages to shooters, power players and athletic slashers.


Fwiw, Wikipedia, at least in places, assumes "21" is not a 1 on 1 game ... "Because only one player is on offense at any given time against several defenders, quickness and shooting skills are essential to successful play."

[MyUniBroDavis]

As ever depends on the type of one-on-one a person assumes to be normal/plays etc.

"Outs" (possession after basket)
reffing leniency (physicality, handles)
ratio of "3" and "2" point value.
Other general "rules" (clock? anything equivalent to 5 seconds "Mark Jackson" rule so you can't just back down from the perimeter, "clearing" the ball required, consequence of shooting fouls [inc 3pt shooting fouls], I'm kind of assuming court dimensions, single basket/hoop, ball checked around 3pt line but there's not 1 official, global, "1v1" set of rules)
how is initial possession started (becomes more important if winner outs) - shot for?
assumed state of court, hoops

How these are assumed/interpreted give different advantages to shooters, power players and athletic slashers.


Fwiw, Wikipedia, at least in places, assumes "21" is not a 1 on 1 game ... "Because only one player is on offense at any given time against several defenders, quickness and shooting skills are essential to successful play."

He definately meant to 21


21 isn’t one on one usually it’s 3-5 people it gets ridiculous if there are too many though so usually 3

[MyUniBroDavis]

Who the hell voted Curry lol

Is Iverson a better choice (also has one vote)?

I see why someone would vote iverson but he’s just way too small if ur including bigger guards, Curry has 2 votes now anyways when he doesn’t beat half the people on this list

Iverson vs Curry is a loss for defense lmao

[oaktownwarriors87]

Who the hell voted Curry lol

James Harden is probably the only other player that has been consistently at the top of the league in ISO efficiency. Obviously Curry is at lower volume.

I also wouldn't consider guys like Luka, LeBron or even Haliburton a PG when it comes to 1v1. It needs to be players of a similar size.

Minimum of 51 games (20 for this year) and 1.3+ ISO possessions per game:

2023-24 #11 in ISO efficiency (#1 for PG's)
2022-23 #11 in ISO efficiency (#3 for PG's)
2021-22 #1 in ISO efficiency (#1 for PG's)
2020-21 #3 in ISO efficiency (#1 for PG's)
2019-20 injured
2018-19 #3 in ISO efficiency (#1 for PG's)
2017-18 #8 in ISO efficiency (#3 for PG's)
2016-17 #4 in ISO efficiency (#4 for PG's)
2015-16 #4 in ISO efficiency (#2 for PG's)
Prior gears not available

I'm not saying to vote for him, but the guy that has lead the NBA in scoring multiple times, is the GOAT shooter, has crazy handles, and has lead all PG's in ISO efficiency in four of his last eight seasons. Obviously he belongs in the discussions.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Who the hell voted Curry lol

James Harden is probably the only other player that has been consistently at the top of the league in ISO efficiency. Obviously Curry is at lower volume.

I also wouldn't consider guys like Luka or LeBron a PG when it comes to 1v1. It needs to be players of a similar size.

Minimum of 51 games (20 for this year) and 1.3+ ISO possessions per game:

2023-24# #11 in ISO efficiency (#1 for PG's)
2022-23 #11 in ISO efficiency (#3 for PG's)
2021-22 #1 in ISO efficiency (#1 for PG's)
2020-21 #3 in ISO efficiency (#1 for PG's)
2019-20 injured
2018-19 #3 in ISO efficiency (#1 for PG's)
2017-18 #8 in ISO efficiency (#3 for PG's)
2016-17 #4 in ISO efficiency (#4 for PG's)
2015-16 #4 in ISO efficiency (#2 for PG's)
Prior gears not available

Iso is pretty different from 1 on 1 though lol, help defense isnt a thing, people aren’t calling fouls nearly as much.

More than that, he isos 1-2 times a game, so a third of kyries volume, and for the most on advantageous switches, and most years they’re about the same, effeciency wise

2019 and 2023 are the only years post 2016 there’s a meaningful difference between their iso data taking out 2020 and 2022 when both of them played less than half the season games (obviously taking kyries martyr year wouldn’t make sense either lol) so considering the nature of their isolations and the volume I don’t think Curry is even better statistically

In any case I don’t think anyone seriously thinks Curry would beat Kyrie one on one right lol

[pancakes3]

Luka's unfair, but Gil is a good one. So is BDiddy.

[oaktownwarriors87]

Who the hell voted Curry lol

James Harden is probably the only other player that has been consistently at the top of the league in ISO efficiency. Obviously Curry is at lower volume.

I also wouldn't consider guys like Luka or LeBron a PG when it comes to 1v1. It needs to be players of a similar size.

Minimum of 51 games (20 for this year) and 1.3+ ISO possessions per game:

2023-24# #11 in ISO efficiency (#1 for PG's)
2022-23 #11 in ISO efficiency (#3 for PG's)
2021-22 #1 in ISO efficiency (#1 for PG's)
2020-21 #3 in ISO efficiency (#1 for PG's)
2019-20 injured
2018-19 #3 in ISO efficiency (#1 for PG's)
2017-18 #8 in ISO efficiency (#3 for PG's)
2016-17 #4 in ISO efficiency (#4 for PG's)
2015-16 #4 in ISO efficiency (#2 for PG's)
Prior gears not available

Iso is different from 1 on 1 though lol, help defense is a thing

More than that, he isos 1-2 times a game, so a third of kyries volume, and for the most on advantageous switches, and most years they’re about the same, effeciency wise

2019 and 2023 are the only years post 2016 there’s a meaningful difference between their iso data taking out 2020 and 2022 when both of them played less than half the season games (obviously taking kyries martyr year wouldn’t make sense either lol) so considering the nature of their isolations and the volume I don’t think Curry is even better statistically


In any case I don’t think anyone seriously thinks Curry would beat Kyrie one on one right lol

Irving has better handles, Curry is a better shooter from anywhere on the floor and he can shoot in a wider variety of ways. Curry is also a much better defender and he has better hands.

It would be close, but I have no problem giving it to Curry. Especially since Curry has been getting all the defensive attention his entire career while Irving has always been a solid #2.

Obviously this belongs to Luka unless there is a height restriction.

[MyUniBroDavis]

James Harden is probably the only other player that has been consistently at the top of the league in ISO efficiency. Obviously Curry is at lower volume.

I also wouldn't consider guys like Luka or LeBron a PG when it comes to 1v1. It needs to be players of a similar size.

Minimum of 51 games (20 for this year) and 1.3+ ISO possessions per game:

2023-24# #11 in ISO efficiency (#1 for PG's)
2022-23 #11 in ISO efficiency (#3 for PG's)
2021-22 #1 in ISO efficiency (#1 for PG's)
2020-21 #3 in ISO efficiency (#1 for PG's)
2019-20 injured
2018-19 #3 in ISO efficiency (#1 for PG's)
2017-18 #8 in ISO efficiency (#3 for PG's)
2016-17 #4 in ISO efficiency (#4 for PG's)
2015-16 #4 in ISO efficiency (#2 for PG's)
Prior gears not available

Iso is different from 1 on 1 though lol, help defense is a thing

More than that, he isos 1-2 times a game, so a third of kyries volume, and for the most on advantageous switches, and most years they’re about the same, effeciency wise

2019 and 2023 are the only years post 2016 there’s a meaningful difference between their iso data taking out 2020 and 2022 when both of them played less than half the season games (obviously taking kyries martyr year wouldn’t make sense either lol) so considering the nature of their isolations and the volume I don’t think Curry is even better statistically


In any case I don’t think anyone seriously thinks Curry would beat Kyrie one on one right lol

Irving has better handles, Curry is a better shooter from anywhere on the floor and he can shoot in a wider variety of ways. Curry is also a much better defender and he has better hands.

It would be close, but I have no problem giving it to Curry. Especially since Curry has been getting all the defensive attention his entire career while Irving has always been a solid #2.

I mean they both suck as isolation defenders if you leave them on an island lol. As much as people want to hype up currys defense most of it is from communication and being good in a team setting at times + the warriors being smart at sending help, neither of them can guard if you leave them on an island and don’t help at all even if they’ve had some decent data at times. Being a good nba defender isn’t the same as being a good one on one defender, cam reddish had been a horrible nba defender most years but is a solid one on one defender.

This #1 and #2 stuff does not matter in the context of one on one lol, Michael beasley would cook a majority of #1s in nba history

[jojo4341]

Based on the choices in a game of 21, Luka should take this. He's got size, strength and a plethora of ISO moves already. I would be curious how pre-crisis Ben Simmons would fare against other PGs.

[spree8]

Penny has the edge with the package of size, athleticism, defense, handle, post moves, ability to play above the rim. I think he’d take everyone’s lunch money here.

[Djoker]

The bigger guards have a big edge one on one. I'd say Luka and Penny from the names listed. They can still shoot but can also post up and get some lots of easy baskets.

[MMyhre]

I actually took Peyton, he might be able to handle Lukas fat body, and should be able to cook him offensively. Westbrook maybe if his defense aligned with his best offense, idk enough about that.

[Rishkar]

I'm going with Oscar Robertson. Good defender, solid handle, efficient shooter, and is out rebounding almost anyone else. Played before the three points shot and thus has a more developed post game than many of the other options, combined with being one of the bigger points guards to choose from