Safe to say, Chet "Hologram" Holgrem > Paolo Banchero

[_jin]

Man, I can’t wait until Chet and Paolo play one another, this thread will be on lite, lol.

They play each other on saturday.

[Johnny Bball]

Well that's a dumb nickname and hardly worth changing the title for.

[The Servant]

Banchero is a #1 type. Holmgren is a great role player. Huge difference. Why is the basketball knowledge on here so low?

Role player... currently putting up 18ppg in a rookie year on 66% True shooting. For reference KD and Steph Curry average around 63%-67% True shooting in their primes.

If putting up Curry and KD efficiency in your rookie year while averaging 18/7/3 is role player mode you need to just stop watching bball and start watching a new sport.

[OrlMagic05]

Banchero is a #1 type. Holmgren is a great role player. Huge difference. Why is the basketball knowledge on here so low?

Role player... currently putting up 18ppg in a rookie year on 66% True shooting. For reference KD and Steph Curry average around 63%-67% True shooting in their primes.

If putting up Curry and KD efficiency in your rookie year while averaging 18/7/3 is role player mode you need to just stop watching bball and start watching a new sport.

You are using TS% way too much. You are comparing KD and Steph in their prime being the #1 option averaging way more than 12 shots per game and 3 FTs per game and using that as your comparison lol If Chet was avergaing 16-20 shots per game like KD/Steph with that efficiency its a different conversation, but the reality of it is he is not. You are comparing TS% for a guy that is averaging role player shot attempts (not calling him a role player) to a guy that is putting up #1 option attempts in his 2nd season.

Comparison- KD in year #2 was 57TS% where as Paolo is at 55TS% not far off.

[Rainwater]

With how the Magic are right now I really don’t think that helps them.

Oh it would definitely help them, but unfortunately they can’t have both!

It would help but I don’t think the current version of Chet would help as much as the current version of Paolo.

[dirkdiggler4177]

Paolo is averaging 27ppg and 5 apg in the last 16 games. I still think Paolo will end up as the better player. He does not have a bag like stars like he usually does, but he is so fundamental he will live.

[zero rings]

Banchero is a #1 type. Holmgren is a great role player. Huge difference. Why is the basketball knowledge on here so low?

Role player... currently putting up 18ppg in a rookie year on 66% True shooting. For reference KD and Steph Curry average around 63%-67% True shooting in their primes.

If putting up Curry and KD efficiency in your rookie year while averaging 18/7/3 is role player mode you need to just stop watching bball and start watching a new sport.

You are using TS% way too much. You are comparing KD and Steph in their prime being the #1 option averaging way more than 12 shots per game and 3 FTs per game and using that as your comparison lol If Chet was avergaing 16-20 shots per game like KD/Steph with that efficiency its a different conversation, but the reality of it is he is not. You are comparing TS% for a guy that is averaging role player shot attempts (not calling him a role player) to a guy that is putting up #1 option attempts in his 2nd season.

Comparison- KD in year #2 was 57TS% where as Paolo is at 55TS% not far off.

League-wide TS% is way up. It’s been at 58% for the last two years. When KD was averaging 25 on 57.7% as a sophomore, he was over three points better than league average.

23 ppg on 55 TS% just isn’t good enough these days. Offenses are too good for that type of volume scoring to have an impact. Chet may not be “creating” as much, but his 18 ppg on 65 TS% would be a nice boost to any offense in the league.

[slick_watts]

Comparison- KD in year #2 was 57TS% where as Paolo is at 55TS% not far off.

you need to era-adjust. .577ts for kd in 2008-09 was +.033ts relative to league average. paolo's .552ts is -.029ts relative to league average this season. that's a huge difference.

both paolo and chet are still developing. they are such different players in different situations that comparing them directly is difficult. i think you have to believe in some sort of intrinsic value of results divorced, high volume creation to prefer paolo right now. especially with the defensive gap. i'd still take chet over him.

[tsherkin]

Banchero is hitting the 3 this year, which is nice. Still below average beneath the arc. -3% rTS is better than -5% from last year, but still sucks. Would have been nice a decade ago. Draws fouls well, but very unimpressive in close and in the middle. Orlando kind of blows on offense, though, and he isn't enjoying tons of passing support, so there's that to consider, especially in a conversation/comparison with Chet, who benefits IMMENSELY from SGA's presence and primacy. Considerable difference in assisted buckets between these two, Chet benefits a ton from those and Paolo does not.

Honestly, Banchero doesn't look great right now for this present league, but he's 21, in his second year and not playing with good offensive support, so who knows? He needs some time, kind of like Cade in Detroit. We'll see what happens. Chet is in a totally separate environment, though, so a direct comparison isn't a particularly good move.

[OrlMagic05]

Comparison- KD in year #2 was 57TS% where as Paolo is at 55TS% not far off.

you need to era-adjust. .577ts for kd in 2008-09 was +.033ts relative to league average. paolo's .552ts is -.029ts relative to league average this season. that's a huge difference.

both paolo and chet are still developing. they are such different players in different situations that comparing them directly is difficult. i think you have to believe in some sort of intrinsic value of results divorced, high volume creation to prefer paolo right now. especially with the defensive gap. i'd still take chet over him.

Ok lets use Ant Edwards. 2nd year comparison 56%TS.
Jayson Tatum 54.7%TS 2nd year, didnt reach 60% until last year!
Jaylen Brown has yet to Career TS% is 57%
Luka 2nd year 58.5%TS
Devin Booker 2nd year 53%
Jamal Murry a career 56%TS
Paolo 55.2%TS this year

My point is, you are all comparing a LOW VOLUME shooter in Chet to a #1 option that takes more shots.

[JT3000]

Banchero is a #1 type. Holmgren is a great role player. Huge difference. Why is the basketball knowledge on here so low?

Role player... currently putting up 18ppg in a rookie year on 66% True shooting. For reference KD and Steph Curry average around 63%-67% True shooting in their primes.

If putting up Curry and KD efficiency in your rookie year while averaging 18/7/3 is role player mode you need to just stop watching bball and start watching a new sport.

Translation: "I cite statistics without knowing what any of them mean."

Do you even watch this sport? Sounds more like you treat it as a simulation where statistics are the only practical end product. At least put the statistics in context, like acknowledging what a low volume shooter Chet is, or how he doesn't create most of those shots for himself.

[zero rings]

Comparison- KD in year #2 was 57TS% where as Paolo is at 55TS% not far off.

you need to era-adjust. .577ts for kd in 2008-09 was +.033ts relative to league average. paolo's .552ts is -.029ts relative to league average this season. that's a huge difference.

both paolo and chet are still developing. they are such different players in different situations that comparing them directly is difficult. i think you have to believe in some sort of intrinsic value of results divorced, high volume creation to prefer paolo right now. especially with the defensive gap. i'd still take chet over him.

Ok lets use Ant Edwards. 2nd year comparison 56%TS.
Jayson Tatum 54.7%TS 2nd year, didnt reach 60% until last year!
Jaylen Brown has yet to Career TS% is 57%
Luka 2nd year 58.5%TS
Devin Booker 2nd year 53%
Jamal Murry a career 56%TS
Paolo 55.2%TS this year

My point is, you are all comparing a LOW VOLUME shooter in Chet to a #1 option that takes more shots.

I don’t think anyone is saying he can’t be the next Jaylen Brown or Jamal Murray. Problem is, if you passed on Chet for a player of that caliber, you made a mistake.

[JT3000]

you need to era-adjust. .577ts for kd in 2008-09 was +.033ts relative to league average. paolo's .552ts is -.029ts relative to league average this season. that's a huge difference.

both paolo and chet are still developing. they are such different players in different situations that comparing them directly is difficult. i think you have to believe in some sort of intrinsic value of results divorced, high volume creation to prefer paolo right now. especially with the defensive gap. i'd still take chet over him.

Ok lets use Ant Edwards. 2nd year comparison 56%TS.
Jayson Tatum 54.7%TS 2nd year, didnt reach 60% until last year!
Jaylen Brown has yet to Career TS% is 57%
Luka 2nd year 58.5%TS
Devin Booker 2nd year 53%
Jamal Murry a career 56%TS
Paolo 55.2%TS this year

My point is, you are all comparing a LOW VOLUME shooter in Chet to a #1 option that takes more shots.

I don’t think anyone is saying he can’t be the next Jaylen Brown or Jamal Murray. Problem is, if you passed on Chet for a player of that caliber, you made a mistake.

Because Chet is the next Tim Duncan, right? He isn't currently a role player who has yet to show any indication that he can lead a team as their first option. No, sir.

[DCasey91]

I see more Pistons Griffin in Paolo (The comp I always had), doing a lot of things well but not having an elite standout point of difference.

It’s quite clear Chet is the better player overall value wise and on two way ability. His game and understanding is special , how long has it been that a player of such high quality fits seamlessly and unaffected by having the ball vs not?

[zero rings]

Ok lets use Ant Edwards. 2nd year comparison 56%TS.
Jayson Tatum 54.7%TS 2nd year, didnt reach 60% until last year!
Jaylen Brown has yet to Career TS% is 57%
Luka 2nd year 58.5%TS
Devin Booker 2nd year 53%
Jamal Murry a career 56%TS
Paolo 55.2%TS this year

My point is, you are all comparing a LOW VOLUME shooter in Chet to a #1 option that takes more shots.

I don’t think anyone is saying he can’t be the next Jaylen Brown or Jamal Murray. Problem is, if you passed on Chet for a player of that caliber, you made a mistake.

Because Chet is the next Tim Duncan, right? He isn't currently a role player who has yet to show any indication that he can lead a team as their first option. No, sir.

You realize Tim Duncan wasn’t a first option for a huge chunk of his career, right?

There are more ways to impact a game than jacking up 20 shots per night.

[Ayt]

Banchero is a #1 type. Holmgren is a great role player. Huge difference. Why is the basketball knowledge on here so low?

Why can Chet not be a #1 type? Why is basketball knowledge here so low?

[OrlMagic05]

you need to era-adjust. .577ts for kd in 2008-09 was +.033ts relative to league average. paolo's .552ts is -.029ts relative to league average this season. that's a huge difference.

both paolo and chet are still developing. they are such different players in different situations that comparing them directly is difficult. i think you have to believe in some sort of intrinsic value of results divorced, high volume creation to prefer paolo right now. especially with the defensive gap. i'd still take chet over him.

Ok lets use Ant Edwards. 2nd year comparison 56%TS.
Jayson Tatum 54.7%TS 2nd year, didnt reach 60% until last year!
Jaylen Brown has yet to Career TS% is 57%
Luka 2nd year 58.5%TS
Devin Booker 2nd year 53%
Jamal Murry a career 56%TS
Paolo 55.2%TS this year

My point is, you are all comparing a LOW VOLUME shooter in Chet to a #1 option that takes more shots.

I don’t think anyone is saying he can’t be the next Jaylen Brown or Jamal Murray. Problem is, if you passed on Chet for a player of that caliber, you made a mistake.

He has been as good as any player in January so far. Avg 34.3ppg 9rebs 6.5ast 2stls shooting FG%44 3pt%50% on 7 attempts while playing with 4 bench players. How can anyone not see that he has Superstar potential. I am not knocking Chet, because he is a very good player, but right now its not close. You have a guy SINGLE handedly carrying a team.

[JT3000]

I don’t think anyone is saying he can’t be the next Jaylen Brown or Jamal Murray. Problem is, if you passed on Chet for a player of that caliber, you made a mistake.

Because Chet is the next Tim Duncan, right? He isn't currently a role player who has yet to show any indication that he can lead a team as their first option. No, sir.

You realize Tim Duncan wasn’t a first option for a huge chunk of his career, right?

There are more ways to impact a game than jacking up 20 shots per night.

No, actually, I have no idea what you're talking about. What, do you think he was taking a backseat to an aging David Robinson?

[DCasey91]

Banchero is a #1 type. Holmgren is a great role player. Huge difference. Why is the basketball knowledge on here so low?

Why can Chet not be a #1 type? Why is basketball knowledge here so low?

Because people look at stats and not actually watch the player or don’t have the time

Chet definitely has number one capability and then some.

[slick_watts]

My point is, you are all comparing a LOW VOLUME shooter in Chet to a #1 option that takes more shots.

this makes a comparison tricky on offense for sure. how do you negotiate the value of these players when they are such different roles? the thunder offense with chet on the court is putting up 122.4pp100. that's over 10pp100 better than the magic offense with paolo in the game. how much of this difference is attributable to chet and paolo? it's not an easy question to answer, especially when you consider that the magic offense is significantly better when paolo is on the bench.

what i come back to is defensive impact. paolo doesn't offer much and chet is already in the upper echelon in the nba. paolo has made great strides offensively, especially lately, but it's hard for me to see anything he's doing on offense making up the separation on the other end without some more progress.