ImageImageImageImageImage

Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread

Moderators: DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, HiJiNX, 7 Footer, Morris_Shatford

pharring
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,764
And1: 503
Joined: Jul 16, 2004
Location: Lofty Bay Street Tower

Re: Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 

Post#861 » by pharring » Tue Jan 9, 2024 9:32 pm

Rapsfan07 wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:Masai needs to pull out a hail mary for Siakam

The odds are against him to making a deal that is comparable in value like the OG trade


The situation has just been grossly mishandled, to be honest.

He got bailed out with the OG situation for two reasons:

1) OG wanted to be in New York
2) He had to take on the future guaranteed salary of Barrett in order to acquire Quickley. This is not an accident. NYK could have easily given us Fournier instead but they wanted to clear salary off their books. Now, it's being marketed as the hometown star coming back home and I actually think he could rehab his value and be a productive player here but let's not pretend like he's been a star waiting to break out in the same way the we think about Quickley.

If Masai was more proactive, maybe we move OG earlier for expirings and other value (Sharpe?) and sign Quickley in the offseason. In that scenario, we kind of get a two for one on OG, if that makes sense.

Siakam is a whole other beast though. Not only does it seem he doesn't have anywhere specific in mind that he'd like to end up, one could be forgiven for thinking he's going out of his way to stick it to the Raptors.


It is playing out very differently than Kyle or even Fred. I don't think Kyle or Fred were intending to "stick it" to TOR on their way out, and in return, Masai was not looking to deal either of them at the deadline to a team that they didn't want to go to. I know if both cases the deadline deals offered were sus, but sus is better than nothing.

In Kyle's case, there was a clear intention to let Kyle test the market and a willingness to use a S&T to get him where he wanted to go.

In Fred's case, I think there was an intention to do the same as Kyle, but both Fred and Masai were caught off-guard by HOU. Fred takes the money (good for him!) Masai lets the asset go (and hopefully learned a valuable lesson about cap space and unpredictability).

In Pascal's case, there does seem to be a "stick it to them" element. Pascal's camp wants the Bird Rights max. Masai isn't offering the Bird Rights max. Masai is gaging trades. Pascal's camp is asking potential suitors if they will be offering the Bird Rights max. When ATL wouldn't commit at the draft, Pascal's camp leaked the "only wants to stay in Toronto" rumour. Now that Pascal can't be Bird Rights maxed extended by an acquiring team, Pascal's camp is telling teams he won't sign there. Pascal does not want to run the risk of being traded to a team that does not extend a Bird Rights Max to him.

I "think" Pascal can still be extended & traded, but that means any trading partner is going to have to accept Pascal at Bird Rights Max. SAC balked at that (I am guessing). It is a shame because if Pascal did land on a SAC or GS and helped them get to Round 2 or beyond, that Bird Rights Max probably does get offered.

But without a suitor prepared right now to pay Bird Rights Max to Pascal, Masai is going to have to take a trade that only values Pascal as a 2-month asset that comes with an option to pay Bird Rights Max to keep other teams from signing him away. No team is going to guarantee a Bird Rights Max offer at the end of the season (ask Harden what those guarantees are worth anyway). The only teams I could see even thinking about it would be projected cap space teams who are thinking they would take a run at Pascal in the off-season:

San Antonio Spurs: $55.3 million.
Orlando Magic: $51.3 million.
Utah Jazz: $41.6 million.
Charlotte Hornets: $40.7 million.
Detroit Pistons: $38.7 million.
Philadelphia 76ers: $32.9 million.
Washington Wizards: $20.1 million.

This is where I wish Philly had better assets or that Orlando wasn't already full of PFs. I don't see the rest looking to invest in a 30-year old Pascal.
User avatar
WuTang_CMB
RealGM
Posts: 41,601
And1: 52,085
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 

Post#862 » by WuTang_CMB » Tue Jan 9, 2024 9:32 pm

Rapsfan07 wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
Rapsfan07 wrote:
The situation has just been grossly mishandled, to be honest.

He got bailed out with the OG situation for two reasons:

1) OG wanted to be in New York
2) He had to take on the future guaranteed salary of Barrett in order to acquire Quickley. This is not an accident. NYK could have easily given us Fournier instead but they wanted to clear salary off their books. Now, it's being marketed as the hometown star coming back home and I actually think he could rehab his value and be a productive player here but let's not pretend like he's been a star waiting to break out in the same way the we think about Quickley.

If Masai was more proactive, maybe we move OG earlier for expirings and other value (Sharpe?) and sign Quickley in the offseason. In that scenario, we kind of get a two for one on OG, if that makes sense.

Siakam is a whole other beast though. Not only does it seem he doesn't have anywhere specific in mind that he'd like to end up, one could be forgiven for thinking he's going out of his way to stick it to the Raptors.


I think they wanted Barrett over Fournier. Supposedly it started off with fournier plus picks back at the TD. Then barret plus picks. Then barrett, IQ, pick.

But ya going to be hard to find a comparable deal for siakam


Notice though that if you're right, IQ + Fourner + pick was never in the cards. That's what I'm getting at and I have to believe there's a reason for that.


I think Toronto preferred the deal they got anyways. You take the better asset
User avatar
bluerap23
Head Coach
Posts: 7,216
And1: 7,352
Joined: Aug 15, 2012
   

Re: Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 

Post#863 » by bluerap23 » Tue Jan 9, 2024 9:33 pm

Rapsfan07 wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:Masai needs to pull out a hail mary for Siakam

The odds are against him to making a deal that is comparable in value like the OG trade


The situation has just been grossly mishandled, to be honest.

He got bailed out with the OG situation for two reasons:

1) OG wanted to be in New York
2) He had to take on the future guaranteed salary of Barrett in order to acquire Quickley. This is not an accident. NYK could have easily given us Fournier instead but they wanted to clear salary off their books. Now, it's being marketed as the hometown star coming back home and I actually think he could rehab his value and be a productive player here but let's not pretend like he's been a star waiting to break out in the same way we think about Quickley.

If Masai was more proactive, maybe we move OG earlier for expirings and other value (Sharpe?) and sign Quickley in the offseason. In that scenario, we kind of get a two for one on OG, if that makes sense.

Siakam is a whole other beast though. Not only does it seem he doesn't have anywhere specific in mind that he'd like to end up, one could be forgiven for thinking he's going out of his way to stick it to the Raptors.


Quickley is an RFA. No way NYK doesn't match. Masai just got Lucky with the OG trade, just like he got lucky on the Kawhi trade and Scottie pick. If it weren't for luck Masai would be the worst GM in the history of the NBA. Sky is falling on this Pascal situation.
Image
User avatar
Scase
RealGM
Posts: 14,640
And1: 10,782
Joined: Feb 02, 2009
Location: Ottawa by way of MTL
       

Re: Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 

Post#864 » by Scase » Tue Jan 9, 2024 9:35 pm

Smalltown wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:This whole episode makes Masai look really bad. There's no good moves for Masai here. Either take the lowball, or watch Siakam drag this team to the play-in and then pull another Fred. Masai will be handing out suspensions with Adam Silver next year if he doesn't salvage this relationship.


We literally heard this exact same crap with the OG situation. Turned out ok.

Massive difference, OG is represented by the Knicks basketball presidents son. The knicks have basically 0 risk that OG doesn't re-sign.

Siakam meanwhile has had his agent say he's not willing to sign anywhere else. Not exactly the same situation.
Image
Props TZ!
User avatar
Morse Code
Head Coach
Posts: 6,536
And1: 8,551
Joined: May 20, 2011
Location: Halifax
     

Re: Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 

Post#865 » by Morse Code » Tue Jan 9, 2024 9:37 pm

alpngso wrote:
Morse Code wrote:I want Jarace Walker over everyone, including Keegan Murray and Jalen Johnson


He won’t overlap with Scottie like how everyone thinks Siakam is in Scottie’s way?

No he’s a natural shooter
User avatar
Scase
RealGM
Posts: 14,640
And1: 10,782
Joined: Feb 02, 2009
Location: Ottawa by way of MTL
       

Re: Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 

Post#866 » by Scase » Tue Jan 9, 2024 9:39 pm

bluerap23 wrote:
Rapsfan07 wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:Masai needs to pull out a hail mary for Siakam

The odds are against him to making a deal that is comparable in value like the OG trade


The situation has just been grossly mishandled, to be honest.

He got bailed out with the OG situation for two reasons:

1) OG wanted to be in New York
2) He had to take on the future guaranteed salary of Barrett in order to acquire Quickley. This is not an accident. NYK could have easily given us Fournier instead but they wanted to clear salary off their books. Now, it's being marketed as the hometown star coming back home and I actually think he could rehab his value and be a productive player here but let's not pretend like he's been a star waiting to break out in the same way we think about Quickley.

If Masai was more proactive, maybe we move OG earlier for expirings and other value (Sharpe?) and sign Quickley in the offseason. In that scenario, we kind of get a two for one on OG, if that makes sense.

Siakam is a whole other beast though. Not only does it seem he doesn't have anywhere specific in mind that he'd like to end up, one could be forgiven for thinking he's going out of his way to stick it to the Raptors.


Quickley is an RFA. No way NYK doesn't match. Masai just got Lucky with the OG trade, just like he got lucky on the Kawhi trade and Scottie pick. If it weren't for luck Masai would be the worst GM in the history of the NBA. Sky is falling on this Pascal situation.

They weren't willing to extend him at the 25mil rumoured, there's no way he survives RFA and the Knicks match while destroying their cap space. Knicks were smart and moved him for a great piece while no longer having to worry about losing him for nothing. Weird concept for raps fans I know.
Image
Props TZ!
User avatar
TorontoBarneys
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,949
And1: 7,087
Joined: Dec 30, 2022
   

Re: Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 

Post#867 » by TorontoBarneys » Tue Jan 9, 2024 9:41 pm

Morse Code wrote:
alpngso wrote:
Morse Code wrote:I want Jarace Walker over everyone, including Keegan Murray and Jalen Johnson


He won’t overlap with Scottie like how everyone thinks Siakam is in Scottie’s way?

No he’s a natural shooter


Yeah even just one quick glance at his g-league stats tells you he plays more like an SF rather than a PF.
User avatar
WuTang_CMB
RealGM
Posts: 41,601
And1: 52,085
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 

Post#868 » by WuTang_CMB » Tue Jan 9, 2024 9:49 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=0YpMScWXY2zRUqR8fH-usg
User avatar
TorontoBarneys
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,949
And1: 7,087
Joined: Dec 30, 2022
   

Re: Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 

Post#869 » by TorontoBarneys » Tue Jan 9, 2024 9:52 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=0YpMScWXY2zRUqR8fH-usg


Dallas, Grizzlies up (despite the Morant injury, this seems a few days outdated?)
Pacers up slightly as well, Hawks and Kings remain the same.
User avatar
WuTang_CMB
RealGM
Posts: 41,601
And1: 52,085
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 

Post#870 » by WuTang_CMB » Tue Jan 9, 2024 10:01 pm

Jake fischer on raptors twitter right now
StopitLeo
RealGM
Posts: 12,399
And1: 6,838
Joined: Dec 13, 2001
 

Re: Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 

Post#871 » by StopitLeo » Tue Jan 9, 2024 10:02 pm

bluerap23 wrote:Quickley is an RFA. No way NYK doesn't match. Masai just got Lucky with the OG trade, just like he got lucky on the Kawhi trade and Scottie pick. If it weren't for luck Masai would be the worst GM in the history of the NBA. Sky is falling on this Pascal situation.


Luck is a huge factor in any GM’s success.

Take Presti as an example. Durant was a no brainer pick but he could just have easily ended up with Oden if Portland took KD. There was a lot of luck in Westbrook and Harden becoming MVP level players and Serge becoming as good as he did.

Presti was then a “disaster” for many years which included the trade for Paul George. He is certainly lucky that SGA has become an elite player. He’s also lucky Chet’s injury didn’t end his career before it started.

Don’t act like Masai just blindly lucked into success without any effort on his part.
User avatar
WuTang_CMB
RealGM
Posts: 41,601
And1: 52,085
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 

Post#872 » by WuTang_CMB » Tue Jan 9, 2024 10:03 pm

Dallas
Detroit
Indiana
Sacramento

R the teams hes heard in the game dor siakama
User avatar
nowayguy
Senior
Posts: 734
And1: 792
Joined: Apr 10, 2011

Re: Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 

Post#873 » by nowayguy » Tue Jan 9, 2024 10:04 pm

The odds make me wonder if Memphis/Dallas are teams Siakam's camp has shown a willingness to resign with.
User avatar
refshateRaps
Head Coach
Posts: 6,104
And1: 8,086
Joined: Feb 08, 2014

Re: Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 

Post#874 » by refshateRaps » Tue Jan 9, 2024 10:07 pm

bobbyp3588 wrote:
refshateRaps wrote:
JB7 wrote:
Now that the Raps have IQ, why would they even be interested in Trae?


Because we might want to contend for a title again.


You’re obviously pretty high on Trae, so no offence, but he’s kind of not all that. I wouldn’t want him on my team at all. He’s just not that good. Definitely won’t win anything unless he has 2 real stars beside him.


Scottie aint winning jack chit without 2 stars beside him as well. Even Lebron couldn't win without other stars lol

Inevitably they are a great fit together if they both want to win, the caveat is Young needs to continue to improve on D
User avatar
WuTang_CMB
RealGM
Posts: 41,601
And1: 52,085
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 

Post#875 » by WuTang_CMB » Tue Jan 9, 2024 10:11 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=0YpMScWXY2zRUqR8fH-usg
Tor_Raps
RealGM
Posts: 32,512
And1: 47,265
Joined: Oct 14, 2018

Re: Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 

Post#876 » by Tor_Raps » Tue Jan 9, 2024 10:16 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=0YpMScWXY2zRUqR8fH-usg


That package would work for a Gary Trent because of their contracts, let alone talking about Siakam lol
User avatar
niQ
Forum Mod - Raptors
Forum Mod - Raptors
Posts: 16,037
And1: 29,914
Joined: Jun 14, 2011

Re: Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 

Post#877 » by niQ » Tue Jan 9, 2024 10:17 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=0YpMScWXY2zRUqR8fH-usg


Dallas has the best odds for this? :-?
mademan
RealGM
Posts: 32,084
And1: 31,177
Joined: Feb 18, 2010

Re: Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 

Post#878 » by mademan » Tue Jan 9, 2024 10:18 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=0YpMScWXY2zRUqR8fH-usg


That package would work for a Gary Trent because of their contracts, let alone talking about Siakam lol


Guessing Holmes/Hardaway is to make the contracts work

Hardy/Omax/1st would be the value. Dont love it, but i like it more than Kuminga or the Kings offer. Im a fan of Omax and think he's gonna be a player in this league...he's a huge wing who just needs some seasoning. Think he's gonna be a Murphy or Herb Jones type, which would be ideal. Hardy and THJ would have roles right away on the team
mademan
RealGM
Posts: 32,084
And1: 31,177
Joined: Feb 18, 2010

Re: Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 

Post#879 » by mademan » Tue Jan 9, 2024 10:20 pm

If it's true that Siakam told the Kings straight up he wouldnt re-sign, the odds only make sense if he's forcing his way to Dallas. No state tax, family in Texas...makes sense
islandboy53
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,709
And1: 862
Joined: May 09, 2016
 

Re: Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 

Post#880 » by islandboy53 » Tue Jan 9, 2024 10:22 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:
sbsat wrote:
RalphWiggum wrote:Siakam
Dick
Piston's 2nd round pick

Giddy
Dort
Bertans
Houston's top 4 protected pick


awful. Like why would you type this?


It's fine if we take Dick and the pick out.


OKC needs to send us a 1st just for taking on Bertans, so this is proposing Dort and Giddy for Siakam? That's substantially less than fine.

Return to Toronto Raptors