The irony: Lakers complain to league about calls

[AussieCeltic]

What I noticed from this page of arguing is we're assuming the refs started giving LA the benefit of the doubt on whistles after the Celtics game... so the last 4 years of people saying LA gets all the calls is untrue and only started happening after the Celts game?

The Lakers have potentially the best rim protector in the league and guys who attack the paint. LA does not shoot the 3 well. Instead of throwing the numbers out there that they do lead the league in FT disparity, it has to be argued WHY instead of just "they lead it, so it's rigged". Didn't the Hornets or something odd like that lead the league in FT disparity by a huge margin a couple years ago?

What I'm noticing in this thread is Lakers fans saying they've always received the benefit of these calls and getting +11 FTA per game more than the opposition is normal. So the last 4 years of people saying LA gets all the calls is true and didn't start happening after the Celtics games?

Yes AD is a good rim protector and yes they have guys that attack the rim but so do other teams.

Embiid is an elite rim protector and is the master foul baiter in the league. He also had the 2nd biggest foul baiter in the league in James Harden right next to him last year. Do you know what their differential was? They peaked at +6.6 for one month but had 2 negative months and the rest were under +1.6. The Lakers have been over +6.0 for 6 months straight.

Yes the Hornets lead the league one season. This was the year they had Dwight Howard who averaged more free throws than any player on the Lakers this season due to the hack-a-dwight.

To give you an idea, the Rockets were within 2.0 on free throw differential to the Hornets that year which is not a huge difference. The Kings were 2nd best last year and over 4.0 behind the Lakers last year which was an all time high. To give you an idea, the range between the Kings in 2nd and the team in 24th was the same as the difference between 1st and 2nd.

*edit to highlight the craziness of it, that was taking into account the full season when the real shenanigans took place Feb onwards. Just shows you how crazy the Feb - April discrepancy was.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Lakers make formal complaints all the time, you think they just got acknowledged because of one time they complained?

What line in sand are you talking about? Here are splits looking at FTA per month of Lakers and opponent.

What was the outlier?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2023/splits/

Did you even look at link you provided? Like seriously?

Lakers v Opponent FTA attempts

Oct - 22.3 v 24 = -1.7
Nov - 27 v 21.5 = +5.5
Dec - 24.3 v 20.9 = +3.4
Jan - 27.3 v 25.5 = +1.8
Feb - 27.9 v 16.5 = +11.4
Mar - 29.3 v 18.7 = +10.6
Apr - 25 v 17.6 = +7.4

Shock me. A complete turnaround post Jan 28th. The fact you posted the link and ask what outlier when it’s right in front of you, just goes to show how Laker fans think. Insane

* edit to add this season

Oct - 25.3 v 19.3 = +6.0
Nov - 25.6 v 18.2 = +7.4
Dec - 26.0 v 19.5 = +6.5

The gravy train continues

LA gave up a lot of FTA in December and January because AD went down halfway through December. That +1.8 is actually an outlier and would be even higher. October was a disaster in which the Lakers were just chucking threes at a high rate, hence the low FTA. From Feb on, AD played almost every game and feasted at the line. Schroder and Reaves are legendary foul merchants and got a lot more minutes after the Westbrook trade. Also notice the opponent 3PA bump in February, and how February and beyond corresponds to the team being reformed at the deadline. Believe it or not, not everything revolved around the Celtics game.

Like the effect you're outlining is actually how the Lakers are a good team. They score primarily at the rim (highest frequency of FG made <5 feet) and guard you conservatively through deterrence or funneling to AD in the drop, often giving up wide open perimeter threes in favor of you driving in. And they also employ a top 3 defender in the world at worst. When AD's not there, they actually don't up their fouls -- they just allow a layup line.

The flip side is they can't shoot for ****, ever, which basically means so many of their wins are uber close, which means there are calls and foul disparities for everyone to latch onto. It's a chicken or egg thing. You're welcome to believe this free throw disparity is a concerted effort to pay LA back for the Celtics game, and there's really no way to convince you out of that.

I wish they could win shooting 50% from 3 like the Celtics, but alas they're going to have to run into defenders and defend without fouling to keep winning close, highly rigged games.

In all seriousness... can you share more actual statistics rather than hyperbolic statements, random platitudes and possibly inaccurate opinions?

- "From Feb on, AD played almost every game and feasted at the line" ... Actually, Davis averaged more FTA per game pre-Feb (7.96 vs. 7.89).

- "October was a disaster in which the Lakers were just chucking threes at a high rate" ... The Lakers took 34.5 threes per game, which was a lot for them. BUT, there were only 6 games that month. They actually took even more threes at the end of the season in April (34.8) and shot nearly 3 more FTA (5 games).

- "legendary foul merchants" ...
Actual statistics - Shroder has never averaged more than 4 FTA per game in his career. Reaves had only taken 224 FTA his entire career (95 games) through the Celtics game. "Legendary?"

- "opponent 3PA bump" ...
Actual statistics - Lakers opponents took 36.1 3FGA per game through Jan. They averaged 37.1 per game after that. (ONE per game). While opponents did average more threes per game in Feb than any other month (39.7), it's barely more than in Dec (38.9)... and there were only 10 games in Feb.

- "highest frequency of FG made <5 feet" ... Genuinely a cool nugget of information. What is that frequency, especially compared to other teams?

- "often giving up wide open perimeter threes in favor of you driving in" ... Do we have statistics that support this take from Second Spectrum or something? Because if the Lakers are doing that more than other teams, the cursory statistics aren't showing us a ton. Five other teams gave up more 3FGA per game than the Lakers (36.5). Only one team had opponents shooting worse behind the arc than the Lakers (34.4%). Were they just lucky that other teams missed so many "wide open perimeter threes?" Actual stats here would help us figure this stuff out. Interestingly, the Lakers were league average (54.8%) defending 2 point FGA.

- "When AD's not there, they actually don't up their fouls -- they just allow a layup line." ... what was the FTA with/without Davis to support this take? How about opponent FG%? Anything?

- "I wish they could win shooting 50% from 3 like the Celtics" ... This season? The Celtics are shooting 36.2% not 50% ... and 16 other teams shoot better on threes.

_________________________

I'm not saying your take is entirely wrong. Only that it would have a lot more merit — and you might even sway Lakers haters — if you would use statistics instead of being overly dismissive of actual statistics from others in favor of your own exaggerations, opinions and hyperbolic statements.

[wco81]

They're still allowing AD to set hard picks. He actually knocks defenders down.

Most big men pick up 2 or 3 offensive fouls if they tried something like that.

Must be nice, to get the kid glove treatment from the refs.

[MrGoat]

Well, this thread aged like wine

[BelgradeNugget]

They're still allowing AD to set hard picks. He actually knocks defenders down.

Most big men pick up 2 or 3 offensive fouls if they tried something like that.

Must be nice, to get the kid glove treatment from the refs.

It has nothing to do with AD and his picks it has everything to do with players guarding him. I didn't watch a game. I looked at box-score and saw that Miles Turner had 6 fouls in 25 minutes. Then I watched just fouls refs called against him and I started laughing.

1Q
6:32 Myles Turner shooting foul
5:49 Myles Turner offensive foul
5:49 Isaiah Jackson enters the game for Myles Turner
2Q
2:12 Myles Turner loose ball foul
2:12 Isaiah Jackson enters the game for Myles Turner
3Q
9:48 Myles Turner loose ball foul
9:48 Isaiah Jackson enters the game for Myles Turner
4Q
5:00 Myles Turner offensive foul
4:09 Myles Turner personal foul
4:09 Obi Toppin enters the game for Myles Turner

It was like Deja Vu
In the bubble

Game 1

2Q
7:51 Nikola Jokic offensive foul
7:22 Nikola Jokic offensive foul
7:22 Mason Plumlee enters the game for Nikola Jokic


In the 2ndQ Jokic, Millsap (who was guarding AD) and Murray all in foul truble (3 each)
After game 3 Lakers complained to the league for not getting enough calls. Paul Millsap 2016 All-Defensive 2nd Team player plays 17 minutes due to foul trouble.

Game 4

1Q
9:50 Paul Millsap personal foul
9:41 Paul Millsap personal foul
9:41 Torrey Craig enters the game for Paul Millsap
3Q
11:41 Paul Millsap loose ball foul
10:40 Paul Millsap offensive foul
10:40 Torrey Craig enters the game for Paul Millsap
4Q
8:06 Paul Millsap enters the game for Nikola Jokic
6:44 Paul Millsap shooting foul

All in all Nikola Jokic averages 3.4 PF in 37.6 mins in the playoffs. In the bubble against Lakers - 4.6 PF in 33.4 minutes. In foul trouble all the time. And AD can dominate that way. But it is not Lakers thing. It has more to do with LeBron.

KD - 2.5 PF in 40.5 mins in the playoffs. In 2012 finals against Miami 4.0 PF in 42.6 mins. When players are in constant foul trouble they can't play defense as we all know.

You are GSW fan. Tell me a story about Steph in 2016 finals and his foul trouble, if there is any story.

[nzahir]

They're still allowing AD to set hard picks. He actually knocks defenders down.

Most big men pick up 2 or 3 offensive fouls if they tried something like that.

Must be nice, to get the kid glove treatment from the refs.

It has nothing to do with AD and his picks it has everything to do with players guarding him. I didn't watch a game. I looked at box-score and saw that Miles Turner had 6 fouls in 25 minutes. Then I watched just fouls refs called against him and I started laughing.

1Q
6:32 Myles Turner shooting foul
5:49 Myles Turner offensive foul
5:49 Isaiah Jackson enters the game for Myles Turner
2Q
2:12 Myles Turner loose ball foul
2:12 Isaiah Jackson enters the game for Myles Turner
3Q
9:48 Myles Turner loose ball foul
9:48 Isaiah Jackson enters the game for Myles Turner
4Q
5:00 Myles Turner offensive foul
4:09 Myles Turner personal foul
4:09 Obi Toppin enters the game for Myles Turner

It was like Deja Vu
In the bubble

Game 1

2Q
7:51 Nikola Jokic offensive foul
7:22 Nikola Jokic offensive foul
7:22 Mason Plumlee enters the game for Nikola Jokic


In the 2ndQ Jokic, Millsap (who was guarding AD) and Murray all in foul truble (3 each)
After game 3 Lakers complained to the league for not getting enough calls. Paul Millsap 2016 All-Defensive 2nd Team player plays 17 minutes due to foule trouble.

Game 4

1Q
9:50 Paul Millsap personal foul
9:41 Paul Millsap personal foul
9:41 Torrey Craig enters the game for Paul Millsap
3Q
11:41 Paul Millsap loose ball foul
10:40 Paul Millsap offensive foul
10:40 Torrey Craig enters the game for Paul Millsap
4Q
8:06 Paul Millsap enters the game for Nikola Jokic
6:44 Paul Millsap shooting foul

All in all Nikola Jokic averages 3.4 PF in 37.6 mins in the playoffs. In the bubble against Lakers - 4.6 PF in 33.4 minutes. In foul trouble all the time. And AD can dominate that way. But it is not Lakers thing. It has more to do with LeBron.

KD - 2.5 PF in 40.5 mins in the playoffs. In 2012 finals against Miami 4.0 PF in 42.6 mins. When players are in constant foul trouble they can't play defense as we all know.

You are GSW fan. Tell me a story about Steph in 2016 finals and his foul trouble, if there is any story.

They're still allowing GS to set moving picks and let guards carry all the time. Draymond, Bogut, and other GS bigs moving picks should have been called multiple times a quarter if we are being serious about rules being enforced

AND LMFAO DIDNT WATCH THE GAME AND COMMENTING

They called Lebron for a moving pick that was a normal pick, they called him for an offensive when him and either Neismith and Matherin got tangled up, and they called him for a charge when the defender was moving backwards in transition, rarely see that

[KembaWalker]

the free throw differentials at this point are just ridiculous. are the ratings actually this bad?

[wco81]

Lakers fan accusing other teams of getting favorable officiat8ng.

[BelgradeNugget]

They're still allowing AD to set hard picks. He actually knocks defenders down.

Most big men pick up 2 or 3 offensive fouls if they tried something like that.

Must be nice, to get the kid glove treatment from the refs.

It has nothing to do with AD and his picks it has everything to do with players guarding him. I didn't watch a game. I looked at box-score and saw that Miles Turner had 6 fouls in 25 minutes. Then I watched just fouls refs called against him and I started laughing.

1Q
6:32 Myles Turner shooting foul
5:49 Myles Turner offensive foul
5:49 Isaiah Jackson enters the game for Myles Turner
2Q
2:12 Myles Turner loose ball foul
2:12 Isaiah Jackson enters the game for Myles Turner
3Q
9:48 Myles Turner loose ball foul
9:48 Isaiah Jackson enters the game for Myles Turner
4Q
5:00 Myles Turner offensive foul
4:09 Myles Turner personal foul
4:09 Obi Toppin enters the game for Myles Turner

It was like Deja Vu
In the bubble

Game 1

2Q
7:51 Nikola Jokic offensive foul
7:22 Nikola Jokic offensive foul
7:22 Mason Plumlee enters the game for Nikola Jokic


In the 2ndQ Jokic, Millsap (who was guarding AD) and Murray all in foul truble (3 each)
After game 3 Lakers complained to the league for not getting enough calls. Paul Millsap 2016 All-Defensive 2nd Team player plays 17 minutes due to foule trouble.

Game 4

1Q
9:50 Paul Millsap personal foul
9:41 Paul Millsap personal foul
9:41 Torrey Craig enters the game for Paul Millsap
3Q
11:41 Paul Millsap loose ball foul
10:40 Paul Millsap offensive foul
10:40 Torrey Craig enters the game for Paul Millsap
4Q
8:06 Paul Millsap enters the game for Nikola Jokic
6:44 Paul Millsap shooting foul

All in all Nikola Jokic averages 3.4 PF in 37.6 mins in the playoffs. In the bubble against Lakers - 4.6 PF in 33.4 minutes. In foul trouble all the time. And AD can dominate that way. But it is not Lakers thing. It has more to do with LeBron.

KD - 2.5 PF in 40.5 mins in the playoffs. In 2012 finals against Miami 4.0 PF in 42.6 mins. When players are in constant foul trouble they can't play defense as we all know.

You are GSW fan. Tell me a story about Steph in 2016 finals and his foul trouble, if there is any story.

They're still allowing GS to set moving picks and let guards carry all the time. Draymond, Bogut, and other GS bigs moving picks should have been called multiple times a quarter if we are being serious about rules being enforced

AND LMFAO DIDNT WATCH THE GAME AND COMMENTING

They called Lebron for a moving pick that was a normal pick, they called him for an offensive when him and either Neismith and Matherin got tangled up, and they called him for a charge when the defender was moving backwards in transition, rarely see that

I watched all Myles Turner fouls and that was all I need to watch. Lebron was not in foul trouble in any games/series I mentioned, nor was AD. LeBron was never in foul trouble in any important games in POs. All his most important opponents were. Turner, Jokic, Millsap, KD, Steph???

But yes, moving picks are what decides games.

Oh, BTW congratulations on winning IST

[S Curry]

They're still allowing AD to set hard picks. He actually knocks defenders down.

Most big men pick up 2 or 3 offensive fouls if they tried something like that.

Must be nice, to get the kid glove treatment from the refs.

Maybe you are absolutely right about AD getting away with those picks, but it's really funny coming from a GSW fan

[JRoy]

the free throw differentials at this point are just ridiculous. are the ratings actually this bad?

I’d drive every time too if I knew my team would get twice as many free throws as the opposition.

[wco81]

They're still allowing AD to set hard picks. He actually knocks defenders down.

Most big men pick up 2 or 3 offensive fouls if they tried something like that.

Must be nice, to get the kid glove treatment from the refs.

Maybe you are absolutely right about AD getting away with those picks, but it's really funny coming from a GSW fan

Yeah if you want to show me clips of Looney or Green not getting called for illegal screens, let’s see them.

[FrobeBryant]

They're still allowing AD to set hard picks. He actually knocks defenders down.

Most big men pick up 2 or 3 offensive fouls if they tried something like that.

Must be nice, to get the kid glove treatment from the refs.

First it’s the FT differential bs and now it’s AD is setting screens too hard. I don’t even think players of other teams complain as much as some RGM members complain about the Lakers. You should really be focused on your team and if they’re actually going to make the play ins this year or not.

[wco81]

They're still allowing AD to set hard picks. He actually knocks defenders down.

Most big men pick up 2 or 3 offensive fouls if they tried something like that.

Must be nice, to get the kid glove treatment from the refs.

First it’s the FT differential bs and now it’s AD is setting screens too hard. I don’t even think players of other teams complain as much as some RGM members complain about the Lakers. You should really be focused on your team and if they’re actually going to make the play ins this year or not.

https://youtu.be/3YaRvbQSjrk?si=vcJWKda2EhxyYgQg

Poor Lakers, they get 30 FTs a quarter in a big playoff game because they totally deserve it!

Leave the Lakers alone! PUH-LEEZE!

[FrobeBryant]

They're still allowing AD to set hard picks. He actually knocks defenders down.

Most big men pick up 2 or 3 offensive fouls if they tried something like that.

Must be nice, to get the kid glove treatment from the refs.

First it’s the FT differential bs and now it’s AD is setting screens too hard. I don’t even think players of other teams complain as much as some RGM members complain about the Lakers. You should really be focused on your team and if they’re actually going to make the play ins this year or not.

https://youtu.be/3YaRvbQSjrk?si=vcJWKda2EhxyYgQg

Poor Lakers, they get 30 FTs a quarter in a big playoff game because they totally deserve it!

Leave the Lakers alone! PUH-LEEZE!

Uh huh. Too much salt isn’t good for you, just saying.

[Marrrcuss]

My lakers must look good. The coping mechanisms are already being put in place.

[wco81]

Can Reaves go one game without flailing bro?

Sent from the phone in my hands

Already hunting for cheap fouls in the first quarter, so far not getting any. Accelerating into defenders in the lane and then jumping forward on a 3 point attempt at end of quarter.

Eventually the refs will put him on the line because of the jersey he's wearing.

[Onlytimewilltel]

They're still allowing AD to set hard picks. He actually knocks defenders down.

Most big men pick up 2 or 3 offensive fouls if they tried something like that.

Must be nice, to get the kid glove treatment from the refs.

Maybe you are absolutely right about AD getting away with those picks, but it's really funny coming from a GSW fan

Yeah if you want to show me clips of Looney or Green not getting called for illegal screens, let’s see them.

Lakers and Warriors fans complaining and arguing about lack of calls is comical. Both of yall won your rings with heavy favoritism from the refs.

The audacity

[wco81]

How about that technical foul. Even Reggie Miller said it was terrible call.

[wco81]

Starting again?