Moderators: bisme37, Darthlukey, canman1971, Shak_Celts, Parliament10, shackles10, snowman, Froob
Celts17Pride wrote:The NBA has a real talent for taking a bad situation and making it worse.
Parliament10 wrote:Shak_Celts wrote:Time to move on. JB will learn from this, and I don’t mean the clear foul… or he won’t.
He's still a VP of the NBPA right?
Brown and others in the Players Association need to see that things like this are addressed.
This is more than a money matter (which I feel the former Reps were about), it's about integrity.
Gotta eliminate this type of scandalous appearance.
Shak_Celts wrote:Parliament10 wrote:Shak_Celts wrote:Time to move on. JB will learn from this, and I don’t mean the clear foul… or he won’t.
He's still a VP of the NBPA right?
Brown and others in the Players Association need to see that things like this are addressed.
This is more than a money matter (which I feel the former Reps were about), it's about integrity.
Gotta eliminate this type of scandalous appearance.
The league backed it so they can’t really blame the refs on this.
They better not call a foul on DW the rest of the season, he should get every block record now! Incidental knee in the back because the shot wasn’t altered. Slap to the face? Definitely, but it didn’t affect the shot. It’s not like he tried to hit the guy, he’s trying to block a shot! DW is about to be the greatest shot blocker in history!
I hear you.
Parliament10 wrote:Shak_Celts wrote:Parliament10 wrote:He's still a VP of the NBPA right?
Brown and others in the Players Association need to see that things like this are addressed.
This is more than a money matter (which I feel the former Reps were about), it's about integrity.
Gotta eliminate this type of scandalous appearance.
The league backed it so they can’t really blame the refs on this.
They better not call a foul on DW the rest of the season, he should get every block record now! Incidental knee in the back because the shot wasn’t altered. Slap to the face? Definitely, but it didn’t affect the shot. It’s not like he tried to hit the guy, he’s trying to block a shot! DW is about to be the greatest shot blocker in history!
Like they are trying to sell/explain away their awful call in this 2 min. report. BK_2020 wrote:Green89 wrote:BK_2020 wrote:What do you mean missed it "too"? The refs on the floor called it a foul, Carlisle challenged. The refs originally called it the way you guys wanted it but because the replay center overturned their call they are apparently life-long Indiana Pacers fans trying to screw Boston and Jaylen Brown and also involved in some massive betting scandal. This is silly.
You are clearly not paying attention. Both Ref Williams and Secaucus must have missed the angle where Jaylen got hit on the head. Hence, nothing was said in the on air explanation, and he alao told Jaylen a firm no when he asked if he was hit in the head.
He said Hield hit the ball but that's not the same as saying he didn't hit Jaylen. He's not out there to give an exhaustive explanation. He's there to announce the call and move on. In any case if the refs were out to screw the Celtics they wouldn't have called that foul in the first place.
Triple7 wrote:Officiating in the nba is a **** joke. Hitting a player on the head whether before or after taking the shot is always a foul. The nba should have just admitted they made a mistake, and everyone moves on. This is just plain stupid. Also, porzingis did foul mathurin. He was just too close for comfort, and his arms weren’t straight up. I’m not mad at that. I was just hoping, they wouldn’t call that to make up for their bad call the other end, and let them slug it out in overtime. It makes you wonder, if maybe one of those refs, or a relative had a take on the game. Especially since they know Tatum ain’t playing.
BK_2020 wrote:Triple7 wrote:Officiating in the nba is a **** joke. Hitting a player on the head whether before or after taking the shot is always a foul. The nba should have just admitted they made a mistake, and everyone moves on. This is just plain stupid. Also, porzingis did foul mathurin. He was just too close for comfort, and his arms weren’t straight up. I’m not mad at that. I was just hoping, they wouldn’t call that to make up for their bad call the other end, and let them slug it out in overtime. It makes you wonder, if maybe one of those refs, or a relative had a take on the game. Especially since they know Tatum ain’t playing.
The rules have always allowed incidental contact. It's simply incorrect that "hitting a player on the head..." is always a foul. Can't assess a situation correctly if you start from totally incorrect premises.
And if the refs had a take on the game, they wouldn't have called it a foul in the first place.
Green89 wrote:BK_2020 wrote:Triple7 wrote:Officiating in the nba is a **** joke. Hitting a player on the head whether before or after taking the shot is always a foul. The nba should have just admitted they made a mistake, and everyone moves on. This is just plain stupid. Also, porzingis did foul mathurin. He was just too close for comfort, and his arms weren’t straight up. I’m not mad at that. I was just hoping, they wouldn’t call that to make up for their bad call the other end, and let them slug it out in overtime. It makes you wonder, if maybe one of those refs, or a relative had a take on the game. Especially since they know Tatum ain’t playing.
The rules have always allowed incidental contact. It's simply incorrect that "hitting a player on the head..." is always a foul. Can't assess a situation correctly if you start from totally incorrect premises.
And if the refs had a take on the game, they wouldn't have called it a foul in the first place.
I believe only 1 of the three called a foul, and the other 2 who didn't were the ones watching the replay. Williams wasn't seen at all in the TV replay while the play happened, so not sure where he even was when the foul was called. And if the one who called it wasn't one of the two watching the review, why didn't they consult with him as to where he saw contact and thought the foul occurred? It's my opinion that this was just a bad review by Williams, who didn't do his diligence making sure contact didn't happen as called on the floor, rather than anyone doing anything shady, but the way it all happened still casts some doubt.
bobbutts wrote:Isn't this why leagues were against gambling for the longest time? When it's easy to make money fixing games games get fixed more. I'm not sure that anything nefarious happened but in this environment I will always assume it's fixing bets.
BK_2020 wrote:Green89 wrote:BK_2020 wrote:The rules have always allowed incidental contact. It's simply incorrect that "hitting a player on the head..." is always a foul. Can't assess a situation correctly if you start from totally incorrect premises.
And if the refs had a take on the game, they wouldn't have called it a foul in the first place.
I believe only 1 of the three called a foul, and the other 2 who didn't were the ones watching the replay. Williams wasn't seen at all in the TV replay while the play happened, so not sure where he even was when the foul was called. And if the one who called it wasn't one of the two watching the review, why didn't they consult with him as to where he saw contact and thought the foul occurred? It's my opinion that this was just a bad review by Williams, who didn't do his diligence making sure contact didn't happen as called on the floor, rather than anyone doing anything shady, but the way it all happened still casts some doubt.
Either the crew chief or the ref who made the reviewed call goes to the scorer's table, puts on the headset, and receives the replay center's decision. They are not the ones reviewing it.
As to why they didn't consult the ref who made the call, because that's the rules. I don't know what NBA's official rationale is for why the rules were written that way, but it's pretty obvious why. It defeats the purpose of a review of an official if the reviewed official gets a say in it.
Section IV—Replay Review Process
a. The on-court crew chief will determine the final outcome when instant replay review of a called foul is triggered by a Challenge, with personnel in the Replay Center playing a supporting role.
Green89 wrote:BK_2020 wrote:Green89 wrote:
I believe only 1 of the three called a foul, and the other 2 who didn't were the ones watching the replay. Williams wasn't seen at all in the TV replay while the play happened, so not sure where he even was when the foul was called. And if the one who called it wasn't one of the two watching the review, why didn't they consult with him as to where he saw contact and thought the foul occurred? It's my opinion that this was just a bad review by Williams, who didn't do his diligence making sure contact didn't happen as called on the floor, rather than anyone doing anything shady, but the way it all happened still casts some doubt.
Either the crew chief or the ref who made the reviewed call goes to the scorer's table, puts on the headset, and receives the replay center's decision. They are not the ones reviewing it.
As to why they didn't consult the ref who made the call, because that's the rules. I don't know what NBA's official rationale is for why the rules were written that way, but it's pretty obvious why. It defeats the purpose of a review of an official if the reviewed official gets a say in it.
You're wrong about this. Out of bounds calls are ruled on by replay booth officials, but they only take a supporting role in deciding foul call replays:Section IV—Replay Review Process
a. The on-court crew chief will determine the final outcome when instant replay review of a called foul is triggered by a Challenge, with personnel in the Replay Center playing a supporting role.
BK_2020 wrote:Green89 wrote:BK_2020 wrote:Either the crew chief or the ref who made the reviewed call goes to the scorer's table, puts on the headset, and receives the replay center's decision. They are not the ones reviewing it.
As to why they didn't consult the ref who made the call, because that's the rules. I don't know what NBA's official rationale is for why the rules were written that way, but it's pretty obvious why. It defeats the purpose of a review of an official if the reviewed official gets a say in it.
You're wrong about this. Out of bounds calls are ruled on by replay booth officials, but they only take a supporting role in deciding foul call replays:Section IV—Replay Review Process
a. The on-court crew chief will determine the final outcome when instant replay review of a called foul is triggered by a Challenge, with personnel in the Replay Center playing a supporting role.
You're right, I was looking at the wrong section of the rule books.
Nevertheless it would be an extremely dumb way to fix a game to do it on a challenge in the last 4 seconds of a tie-game with Central reviewing all the video evidence with you.
Green89 wrote:BK_2020 wrote:Green89 wrote:
You're wrong about this. Out of bounds calls are ruled on by replay booth officials, but they only take a supporting role in deciding foul call replays:
You're right, I was looking at the wrong section of the rule books.
Nevertheless it would be an extremely dumb way to fix a game to do it on a challenge in the last 4 seconds of a tie-game with Central reviewing all the video evidence with you.
Right, and I do not think this was a fix. I think Williams went through the video too quickly and just made a bad decision without analyzing the contact. And remember that Lebron game, where he went ballistic after the theee pointer was overturned. He was screaming at Tony Brothers, who can be seen mouthing back to him, "I didn't make the call." So that call came from the replay center. Out of bounds and three point reviews come from the booth, but foul challenges is up to the floor ref. Maybe they should change that and let the booth do it all, but I don't think they want the game paused for every aspect to be decided by remote surveillance guys.
BK_2020 wrote:Green89 wrote:BK_2020 wrote:You're right, I was looking at the wrong section of the rule books.
Nevertheless it would be an extremely dumb way to fix a game to do it on a challenge in the last 4 seconds of a tie-game with Central reviewing all the video evidence with you.
Right, and I do not think this was a fix. I think Williams went through the video too quickly and just made a bad decision without analyzing the contact. And remember that Lebron game, where he went ballistic after the theee pointer was overturned. He was screaming at Tony Brothers, who can be seen mouthing back to him, "I didn't make the call." So that call came from the replay center. Out of bounds and three point reviews come from the booth, but foul challenges is up to the floor ref. Maybe they should change that and let the booth do it all, but I don't think they want the game paused for every aspect to be decided by remote surveillance guys.
Yeah it would make more sense for Central to do the review without the officials being able to influence it. It already takes long anyway.
I do think there were more video angles available to the refs than the ones that got shown on the Celtics broadcast. I was watching the Indy broadcast and I believe there was at least one angle that showed clear contact with the ball before the head.
Jammer wrote:A more egregious example was Tuesday's 132-131 Laker win over the Raptors in LA,
with the Lakers getting 36 Free Throws to Toronto's 13,
including a 23-2 4th quarter Free Throw Advantage for the Lakers.
Toronto Coach Darko Rajakovic will probably be fined for his post-game comments.
This is a perfect example of why the Players Association should insist that the bottom 10% of refs be permanently banished every year.
Creating a mutually agreed upon independent panel would be key, so the NBA's known "company men" don't escape independent evaluation.
But, it's also obvious that the NBA is using refs to manipulate the success of their franchises, despite the effect it has on sports betting outcomes.
BK_2020 wrote:Jammer wrote:A more egregious example was Tuesday's 132-131 Laker win over the Raptors in LA,
with the Lakers getting 36 Free Throws to Toronto's 13,
including a 23-2 4th quarter Free Throw Advantage for the Lakers.
Toronto Coach Darko Rajakovic will probably be fined for his post-game comments.
This is a perfect example of why the Players Association should insist that the bottom 10% of refs be permanently banished every year.
Creating a mutually agreed upon independent panel would be key, so the NBA's known "company men" don't escape independent evaluation.
But, it's also obvious that the NBA is using refs to manipulate the success of their franchises, despite the effect it has on sports betting outcomes.
8 of those free throws were intentional fouls at the end of the game. It's more like 28 to 13 which is still lopsided but not crazy.
Also the idea that the NBA is manipulating the refs to mandate the success of the Indiana Pacers is not very plausible.