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Deni Avdija - Part II

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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#261 » by doclinkin » Wed Jan 3, 2024 1:27 am

QMemphis wrote:Counter offer
Ziaire Williams, Bismack 24 1st top 5 protection for Deni. Gives you guys two lottery picks including your own likely and a young wing in ZW.



Ha! Did you just try to offer us our own lottery pick? As if that were the sweetener. No man. Do better. You're offering a late lotto pick in a weak draft for a proven player. We'd be losing a lottery pick in Deni. Consider a re-draft of 2020, how many players would be picked before (then #10) Deni now? I think Deni climbs to top 5 in that redraft. Now do the same with the 2021 lotto. Does ZW go earlier or later than his #10? We already mentioned one who passed him in Aldama.

Nah if that's the offer, we keep Deni. A player on a bargain contract who is improving and is one of maybe 2-3 players the team would like to build around in the rebuild.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#262 » by bubba hotep » Wed Jan 3, 2024 1:45 am

I like Deni, but pump the brakes just a little bit. 2020 redraft: Anthony Edwards, LaMelo, Halliburton, Maxey, Bane, and Vassell all solidly get picked before Deni. Deni's in that next tier with like 5+ other guys imo, so #9 was about right. (As I scream into the void, WHY DID WE NOT PICK TYREESE!??!, WHYYYYY)
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#263 » by trast66 » Wed Jan 3, 2024 2:01 am

There are at least 20 guys in the 2020 draft who have been better than Deni.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#264 » by QMemphis » Wed Jan 3, 2024 2:18 am

gesa2 wrote:I really like Deni but you’re getting close. You’re an injury away from playing as bad as you did the first month.


We are honestly this season is a wash for us with a Hail Nary’s chance of making the play in with how we are playing. I don’t want any more rookies only reason it’s a top 5 protection is because that’s fair value. A top 5 pick can net us a better more consistent player. I would be willing to add 2 2nds but that’s the best offer I can see realistically being offered.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#265 » by QMemphis » Wed Jan 3, 2024 2:24 am

doclinkin wrote:
QMemphis wrote:Counter offer
Ziaire Williams, Bismack 24 1st top 5 protection for Deni. Gives you guys two lottery picks including your own likely and a young wing in ZW.



Ha! Did you just try to offer us our own lottery pick? As if that were the sweetener. No man. Do better. You're offering a late lotto pick in a weak draft for a proven player. We'd be losing a lottery pick in Deni. Consider a re-draft of 2020, how many players would be picked before (then #10) Deni now? I think Deni climbs to top 5 in that redraft. Now do the same with the 2021 lotto. Does ZW go earlier or later than his #10? We already mentioned one who passed him in Aldama.

Nah if that's the offer, we keep Deni. A player on a bargain contract who is improving and is one of maybe 2-3 players the team would like to build around in the rebuild.


You are overplaying your hand, I simply pointed out you would have two lottery picks this year. Your new front office which has struggled to accumulate assets may jump at the opportunity to truly reset with another lotto pick.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#266 » by Kanyewest » Wed Jan 3, 2024 3:02 am

trast66 wrote:There are at least 20 guys in the 2020 draft who have been better than Deni.


Maybe Deni has cracked the top 10 going forward.

Edwards, Haliburton, Maxey, LaMelo Ball, Desmond Bane, Jaden McDaniels, Devin Vassell, Immanuel Quickley appear to be better now. Maybe Okongwu (he signed a 4 year 62 Million deal)

But Deni looks like he's ahead of Toppin and NeSmith. I might take him over Josh Green (3 years 41 million)
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#267 » by tontoz » Wed Jan 3, 2024 3:06 am

I doubt mgt is shopping Deni. I think they are shopping the vets.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#268 » by tontoz » Wed Jan 10, 2024 12:00 am

One thing I like this year is how aggressive Deni is driving to the basket. He used to be very timid about driving. This used to be an annoyance for me and I remember arguing about it with one of his foreign fans on here.

They were complaining about his role in the offense and my counter was that he is playing in the same offense as everyone else, he just doesn't do anything with the ball when he gets it.

Now he routinely looks to drive when he gets the chance, and frequently bullies defenders out of the way. That never happened his first two seasons here.

Even with that bad slump he is still averaging 16 pts per 36 with a TS of 58.7%. It definitely looks like he has turned the corner.

Hopefully I am not jinxing him again.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#269 » by DCZards » Wed Jan 10, 2024 12:32 am

Definitely have to love the way Deni is attacking the basket and using his ballhandling and size to score. He’s the Zards second best offensive player behind Kuz and his usage and minutes need to reflect that.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#270 » by nate33 » Wed Jan 10, 2024 12:55 am

DCZards wrote:Definitely have to love the way Deni is attacking the basket and using his ballhandling and size to score. He’s the Zards second best offensive player behind Kuz and his usage and minutes need to reflect that.

Third best; I think Tyus is better on offense. But your point is well taken. Deni is actually a useful offensive option, rather than a guy who only scores garbage buckets.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#271 » by Wizraeli » Wed Jan 10, 2024 2:58 pm

tontoz wrote:One thing I like this year is how aggressive Deni is driving to the basket. He used to be very timid about driving. This used to be an annoyance for me and I remember arguing about it with one of his foreign fans on here.

They were complaining about his role in the offense and my counter was that he is playing in the same offense as everyone else, he just doesn't do anything with the ball when he gets it.


You really want to open up old arguments? because the way I remember it is that the "local fans" claimed his problem is that he's just too slow, too weak and not athletic enough to do what he did in Europe against NBA players, which I hope we all agree today is a complete nonsense.


I've said it in the past and I say it again, you can't narrow down the reasons for how a player performs to just "do something with the ball when you get it", that's not how it works, there's a lot of psychology behind how a player performs, some players are affected more by it and some less, Deni apparently affected more, and that's why the main arguments of us "foreign fans" were that Deni's problem is not skill or size but mainly confidence and our suggestion for a solution was that the team should play a team oriented offensive system where Deni feels a part of and not a system where just one player is holding the ball most of the offense while everyone else are watching him, it was only a suggestion for a solution, obviously it's better if Deni can work on his confidence on his own but as I said back then it's the team's interest to help him with that if he's suppose to be a main part of their future.

And I think these arguments are very valid today as well, I don't think it's a coincidence that the last few games Deni's performance was rising while Poole's was declining, the more Deni is playing without players like Poole next to him on the court the higher Deni's confidence is going to be and in relation so does his performance.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#272 » by nate33 » Wed Jan 10, 2024 3:08 pm

Wizraeli wrote:
tontoz wrote:One thing I like this year is how aggressive Deni is driving to the basket. He used to be very timid about driving. This used to be an annoyance for me and I remember arguing about it with one of his foreign fans on here.

They were complaining about his role in the offense and my counter was that he is playing in the same offense as everyone else, he just doesn't do anything with the ball when he gets it.


You really want to open up old arguments? because the way I remember it is that the "local fans" claimed his problem is that he's just too slow, too weak and not athletic enough to do what he did in Europe against NBA players, which I hope we all agree today is a complete nonsense.


I've said it in the past and I say it again, you can't narrow down the reasons for how a player performs to just "do something with the ball when you get it", that's not how it works, there's a lot of psychology behind how a player performs, some players are affected more by it and some less, Deni apparently affected more, and that's why the main arguments of us "foreign fans" were that Deni's problem is not skill or size but mainly confidence and our suggestion for a solution was that the team should play a team oriented offensive system where Deni feels a part of and not a system where just one player is holding the ball most of the offense while everyone else are watching him, it was only a suggestion for a solution, obviously it's better if Deni can work on his confidence on his own but as I said back then it's the team's interest to help him with that if he's suppose to be a main part of their future.

And I think these arguments are very valid today as well, I don't think it's a coincidence that the last few games Deni's performance was rising while Poole's was declining, the more Deni is playing without players like Poole next to him on the court the higher Deni's confidence is going to be and in relation so does his performance.


The biggest difference is that Deni has gotten better finishing around the rim. He has added some floaters and jump hooks to his bag that he lacked last season. He has improved his shooting percentage from 3-10 feet from .395 to .500.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#273 » by Wizraeli » Wed Jan 10, 2024 4:14 pm

nate33 wrote:The biggest difference is that Deni has gotten better finishing around the rim. He has added some floaters and jump hooks to his bag that he lacked last season. He has improved his shooting percentage from 3-10 feet from .395 to .500.


He finished fine around the rim in Europe at the time of that discussion, averaging 14.6 pts, 8.2 reb and 4.6 ast in the last Eurobasket against some of the same NBA players he faced here and with no defensive 3 sec', tighter defenses with hand checking allowed and where he was the main focus of the other team, so the question was why In Europe he's one player and in the NBA another, and the (suggested) answer was first and foremost confidence with his role in the team.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#274 » by tontoz » Wed Jan 10, 2024 4:46 pm

Wizraeli wrote:
tontoz wrote:One thing I like this year is how aggressive Deni is driving to the basket. He used to be very timid about driving. This used to be an annoyance for me and I remember arguing about it with one of his foreign fans on here.

They were complaining about his role in the offense and my counter was that he is playing in the same offense as everyone else, he just doesn't do anything with the ball when he gets it.


You really want to open up old arguments? because the way I remember it is that the "local fans" claimed his problem is that he's just too slow, too weak and not athletic enough to do what he did in Europe against NBA players, which I hope we all agree today is a complete nonsense.


I've said it in the past and I say it again, you can't narrow down the reasons for how a player performs to just "do something with the ball when you get it", that's not how it works, there's a lot of psychology behind how a player performs, some players are affected more by it and some less, Deni apparently affected more, and that's why the main arguments of us "foreign fans" were that Deni's problem is not skill or size but mainly confidence and our suggestion for a solution was that the team should play a team oriented offensive system where Deni feels a part of and not a system where just one player is holding the ball most of the offense while everyone else are watching him, it was only a suggestion for a solution, obviously it's better if Deni can work on his confidence on his own but as I said back then it's the team's interest to help him with that if he's suppose to be a main part of their future.

And I think these arguments are very valid today as well, I don't think it's a coincidence that the last few games Deni's performance was rising while Poole's was declining, the more Deni is playing without players like Poole next to him on the court the higher Deni's confidence is going to be and in relation so does his performance.



:lol:

I don't remember anyone saying he was too slow or unathletic to play in the NBA the last couple of years. If that was the case he wouldn't be a strong defender, which even his harshest critics would concede. He was very good, if not elite on D during his 2nd season.

He just didn't drive much. That's just a fact. They actually track this. Two years ago 22% of his shots were at the rim. Now 33% of his shots are at the rim. That is a big jump.

He is also using his body to clear space to get his shot off.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#275 » by tontoz » Wed Jan 10, 2024 5:03 pm

Here is what I posted about Deni exactly two years ago in the first Deni thread:

For the record the team gives up 8.8 fewer pts per 48 when Deni is on the floor.

http://www.82games.com/2122/21WAS9.HTM#onoff

He has shown the ability to guard multiple positions effectively. That is why many of us are willing to be patient with him on offense, especially since he had good offensive numbers just last month



viewtopic.php?t=2018673&start=980
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#276 » by Wizraeli » Wed Jan 10, 2024 6:57 pm

tontoz wrote:I don't remember anyone saying he was too slow or unathletic to play in the NBA the last couple of years


I really don't want to start digging in old threads, but that was definitely a notion here:

No it's because the Eurobasket teams had one, maybe 2 NBA players on their rosters. The calibre of athleticism is different. They are more physical in Europe with hacking and bumping on defense, but in the NBA players are simply bigger, faster, more athletic. Things that Deni has room to do in Europe get smothered up here. Especially down low. Deni is solidly athletic in Euroleague play, one of the quicker face-up bigs with the ball. In the NBA he doesn't have the same advantage.


https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2018673&p=101797387&hilit=athletic#p101796220


tontoz wrote:If that was the case he wouldn't be a strong defender, which even his harshest critics would concede. He was very good, if not elite on D during his 2nd season.


Since that was the exact counter argument I gave to the claim he's not athletic or big enough then I agree...

doclinkin wrote:He just didn't drive much. That's just a fact. They actually track this. Two years ago 22% of his shots were at the rim. Now 33% of his shots are at the rim. That is a big jump.


Who said he doesn't drive more? the question was why he's driving more and why he's more aggressive now...and I say again, narrowing it down to "just do something when you get the ball" ignores a wide range of other reasons that influence players preformance.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#277 » by Frichuela » Wed Jan 10, 2024 8:38 pm

Big praise for Deni from posters in the main realm trade board

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2326498&start=40
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#278 » by dckingsfan » Wed Jan 10, 2024 9:12 pm

Deni is clearly improving but oh so slowly (at least that is what it feels like).

But if he continues to improve at this rate - he is still going to be a very nice piece especially if you consider his contract.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#279 » by tontoz » Wed Jan 10, 2024 9:43 pm

What you said and the post you quoted are two different things. What you said was

because the way I remember it is that the "local fans" claimed his problem is that he's just too slow, too weak and not athletic enough to do what he did in Europe against NBA players,


Which is talking specifically about Deni.

The post you quoted was talking about his competition in Europe. I don't remember anyone saying Deni was too slow or unathletic, just that he didn't have the same athletic advantage that he had in europe.

Whatevs I think everyone would agree that his athleticism is not a problem.

I think he needs to learn to use the high glass more and try to dunk more often rather than his typical finger roll.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#280 » by tontoz » Wed Jan 10, 2024 9:51 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Deni is clearly improving but oh so slowly (at least that is what it feels like).

But if he continues to improve at this rate - he is still going to be a very nice piece especially if you consider his contract.


Comparing this year to last year I wouldn't say it is slow improvement. More like he was fairly stagnant his first 3 seasons and now all of a sudden the light appears to have come on. Beal was like that in year 5.

It's like he has suddenly realized that he is a big, strong guy and he can use that to his advantage on both ends, not just on defense.
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