Deni Avdija - Part II

[Eyalley-oop]

Wizraeli, are you also Wizraeli Fandom--the guy who's always in the Locked On Wizards' comments section?

No

[DCZards]

... you can't narrow down the reasons for how a player performs to just "do something with the ball when you get it", that's not how it works...

Unfortunately, as I see it, that's exactly how it works in the NBA.

Well, yea, I guess so, and that's indeed unfortunate.

I know your argument is that “team ball” like it’s often played internationally is better than the brand of basketball typically played in the NBA. But the modern NBA has been built around the dynamism and athleticism of individual talents such as MJ, Kobe, LeBron, Giannis, Luka, etc. It might be “unfortunate” but it is what it is..and it's typically much more entertaining than the kind of ball you prefer.

Having said that, I’m here to confess that Deni is my favorite Zards player. I like his versatility as a ball handler and passer, and his willingness to attack the basket. He's also an above average defender and has no problem mixing it up under the boards.

Deni does need to become a much better mid-range and 3pt shooter, but I give him props for the overall improvement I’ve seen, especially this year.

[Eyalley-oop]

I know your argument is that “team ball” like it’s often played internationally is better than the brand of basketball typically played in the NBA. But the modern NBA has been built around the dynamism and athleticism of individual talents such as MJ, Kobe, LeBron, Giannis, Luka, etc. It might be “unfortunate” but it is what it is..and it's typically much more entertaining than the kind of ball you prefer.

That's not my argument, that's the argument people here automatically tag to any international fan that tries to say something, my argument was that Deni, specifically Deni, not any international player, not any Israeli player, just Deni, will thrive and develop much faster with an offensive system where the ball moves around more between the players instead of relying on an expectation that in the rare case where he touches the ball he'll just "do something with it", and I claimed that if the Wizards wants to get the best profit out of their draft pick investment that's what they need to do, that's all, if they don't want to or don't think it's a priority then that's ok, I just said (in the past) that don't be surprised if he won't develop at all and move somewhere else at the end of his rookie contract or(as we eventually saw that happened), he'll develop and show his potential, but in a relative slow pace.


Regarding what I think generally about the way the team is playing, Jordan Poole isn't Kobe Bryant, Kyle Kuzma isn't Lebron and Bradley Beal isn't Michael Jordan, the Wizards doesn't have / had during Deni's time anyone remotely close to the level of names you mentioned, not even Westbrook in the shape that he was, if Michael Jordan was in the roster, even in his current age, I would have said just give him the ball and step aside, like I did 21 years ago when he was actually in the Wizards roster, because these kind of players are entertaining to watch even if they play alone, I'm sorry, but that's not the current situation with the Wizards, when they tried to win by relying on their "stars" oriented offense with Scott Brooks they looked awful, when they tried to win with WUJ with a similar mindset they looked awful and now when they are tanking they obviously look awful, I never asked for the Wiz to play like in Europe, but I don't think it's too much to ask to pass the ball more and to have a smarter offensive system than the current one that pretends like Poole and Kuzma are Luka or Giannis when they are not remotely close to that level.

[dckingsfan]

Except that - as bad a team as we are we rank 8th in Assists and first in Pace. The ball is moving.

Deni's offensive rating is up and his usage is up.

Unfortunately, he is still a below average offensive player at this point. What can he do to change that?

Hit near to 40% of his 3 pointers and move to a 2:1 Assist/TO ratio.

[Kanyewest]

Deni has been more consistent over his last 8 games. 53 FG%, 46 3P%. Only 64% from the free throw line though. 16/7/3.5 in 27 mpg. Not sure if the offense is being run different (ie Jordan Poole is a worse version of Beal and Porzingis demanded a decent amount of attention). OTOH Wes has less excuses to sit Deni on the bench.

[nate33]

Except that - as bad a team as we are we rank 8th in Assists and first in Pace. The ball is moving.

Deni's offensive rating is up and his usage is up.

Unfortunately, he is still a below average offensive player at this point. What can he do to change that?

Hit near to 40% of his 3 pointers and move to a 2:1 Assist/TO ratio.

Yeah, I'm sure we all want to put our boot through the TV when we see Poole or Kuzma go iso early in the shot clock and launch a bad shot, but the statistics suggest that the team as a whole moves the ball pretty well. Let's not act like the problem is systemic when it is confined to two players, and even those guys aren't THAT bad about it. Their assist numbers are pretty good.

[tontoz]

Over his last 8 games Deni is averaging over 15 ppg. Nice to see after that strange slump.

[arusinov]

Except that - as bad a team as we are we rank 8th in Assists and first in Pace. The ball is moving.

Deni's offensive rating is up and his usage is up.

Unfortunately, he is still a below average offensive player at this point. What can he do to change that?

Hit near to 40% of his 3 pointers and move to a 2:1 Assist/TO ratio.

Hm... Actually Deni's Ast / TO ratio this season is 2.3

40% from 3 is not going to happen (this year at least), but even if his 3P% and FT% are somewhat below average, his overall scoring efficiency - both eFG% and TS% , are average in league, and clearly above average for a wing.

[Eyalley-oop]

Except that - as bad a team as we are we rank 8th in Assists and first in Pace. The ball is moving.

But what I wrote was not about now, it's about what I argued 3 years ago when he was younger and the Wizards were ranked 27(!) in touches, 13 in assists and 19 in assists %.

[dckingsfan]

Except that - as bad a team as we are we rank 8th in Assists and first in Pace. The ball is moving.

But what I wrote was not about now, it's about what I argued 3 years ago when he was younger and the Wizards were ranked 27(!) in touches, 13 in assists and 19 in assists %.

Ah. Ancient history (in NBA terms). Got it.

I would rather concentrate on what is happening now - carry on.

[dckingsfan]

Except that - as bad a team as we are we rank 8th in Assists and first in Pace. The ball is moving.

Deni's offensive rating is up and his usage is up.

Unfortunately, he is still a below average offensive player at this point. What can he do to change that?

Hit near to 40% of his 3 pointers and move to a 2:1 Assist/TO ratio.

Hm... Actually Deni's Ast / TO ratio this season is 2.3

40% from 3 is not going to happen (this year at least), but even if his 3P% and FT% are somewhat below average, his overall scoring efficiency - both eFG% and TS% , are average in league, and clearly above average for a wing.

Yep, he hit the one milestone. It would be good to see him hit the other.

Anyone have the various rankings for Deni as a wing? I would have thought he was in the below average category for a starter (on the offensive side of the ball). I could definitely be missing something.

[tontoz]

In January Deni's per 36 numbers are 18/8.5/5 with a TS of 61.4%.

[arusinov]

In January Deni's per 36 numbers are 18/8.5/5 with a TS of 61.4%.

Even not counting per 36, but per game numbers are good:

14.0 / 6.6 / 4.1 at 20.8 USG%,
shooting split is 51.0 / 47.1 / 78.0 , volume of 3PA is too low at just 2.3 per game but Deni had 3.9 FTA per game this month.
by the way right now Deni has most "and-1" in the team this season - 25 (1 more than Kuz)

[tontoz]

In January Deni's per 36 numbers are 18/8.5/5 with a TS of 61.4%.

Even not counting per 36, but per game numbers are good:

14.0 / 6.6 / 4.1 at 20.8 USG%,
shooting split is 51.0 / 47.1 / 78.0 , volume of 3PA is too low at just 2.3 per game but Deni had 3.9 FTA per game this month.
by the way right now Deni has most "and-1" in the team this season - 25 (1 more than Kuz)

I am not worried about his 3 pt volume. He takes them when he is open he just plays with a couple of selfish players who don't want to move the ball.

The important thing is that Deni is attacking the rim when he gets the chance which he wasn't doing last year.

[Pistol King]

When Deni drives down hill after a screen being set, he's very hard to stop. There is improvement there, indeed, but he should do it much more often (driving from both sides). He could get 12-14 points a game just solely by his unique speed going down hill alone.

I've already seen 4 different commentators this year mentioning they are surprised by how fast and quick he's. Just use it more Deni.

Yesterday he had an easy open lane to dunk it but instead he chose unwisely to pass it to Kispert (who missed the shot).







He must change this passive mindset if he ever wants to fulfill his potential as a tall point forward. When you show defenders you're not going to attack the basket, over and over, the passes are much more easy to anticipate. And vice versa.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

When Deni drives down hill after a screen being set, he's very hard to stop. I'd like him to use his speed going down hill much more often than he does.

I'd like him to try and to it equally at the same speed from both sides. He could get 12-14 points a game just solely by his unique speed going down hill alone.

I've already seen 4 different commentators this year mentioning they are surprised by how fast and quick he's. Just use it more Deni.

Yesterday he had an easy open lane to dunk it but instead he chose unwisely to pass it to Kispert (who missed the shot).







He must change this passive mindset if he ever wants to fulfill his potential as a tall point forward. When you show defenders you're not going to attack the basket, the passes are much more easy to anticipate. And vice versa.

Agreed, he should be given more ops to get into favorable scoring positions at the rim where he is shooting 70+% I believe.

Problem is though...even though he's made some really big strides this year, I still think Deni has a habit of looking over his shoulder at the bench. He's still looks like he sometimes worried of doing too much, not doing it right enough, taking shots away from so and so, and so on, and in turn, getting the quick hook. You can see in-game he looks at the bench constantly, it's like a tick waiting to get pulled.

He's got the longest tenure on this team, is always asked to defend the opponents best perimeter player (despite some noise lately that get's me that this is Bilal doing this) and defends 1 through 5 on most nights, has now brought his offense to 50/38/75 splits nearly 50 games into the season, and yet he's a guy that is still asked to play with units that won't pass him the ball, he rarely closes games for reasons I'll never understand, and gets choppy minutes throughout the game. Oh yeah and he just turned 23.

Going back to his strides this year, despite them, he's playing less than an additional minute per game. As I've said in other thread, my hope is that this changes after the trade deadline. Deni had to earn it, but everyone is okay that Bilal is playing almost as much time as a rookie as Deni is this season.

This team still hasn't shaken of the yoke of nepotism and meritless favoritism.

[Pistol King]

Agreed, he should be given more ops to get into favorable scoring positions at the rim where he is shooting 70+% I believe.

Problem is though...even though he's made some really big strides this year, I still think Deni has a habit of looking over his shoulder at the bench. He's still looks like he sometimes worried of doing too much, not doing it right enough, taking shots away from so and so, and so on, and in turn, getting the quick hook. You can see in-game he looks at the bench constantly, it's like a tick waiting to get pulled.

He's got the longest tenure on this team, is always asked to defend the opponents best perimeter player (despite some noise lately that get's me that this is Bilal doing this) and defends 1 through 5 on most nights, has now brought his offense to 50/38/75 splits nearly 50 games into the season, and yet he's a guy that is still asked to play with play with units that won't pass him the ball, he rarely closes games for a reasons I'll never understand, and gets choppy minutes throughout the game. Oh yeah and he just turned 23.

Going back to his strides this year, despite them, he's playing less than an additional minute per game. As I've said in other thread, my hope is that this changes after the trade deadline. Deni had to earn it, but everyone is okay that Bilal is playing almost as much time as a rookie as Deni is this season.

This team still hasn't shaken of the yoke of nepotism and meritless favoritism.

How do you explain his short leash despite these nice strides he has made this season?

Boggles me it comes from two coaches who calling themselves "defensive minded".

Anyway, I'm trying to push him to play at a level when even the WUJ and Keefes of the worlds wouldn't find reasons to bench him.

[2Fluffy4U]

I must admit I am less concerened with his minutes right now.
1. Bilal is the future prospect and should get max burn-in time.
2. Deni is future veteran to be trusted to lead a new group of young prospects, and if now is pre-tradeline showcase time - no reason to not limit his minutes and keep him healthy yet in game shape..

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Agreed, he should be given more ops to get into favorable scoring positions at the rim where he is shooting 70+% I believe.

Problem is though...even though he's made some really big strides this year, I still think Deni has a habit of looking over his shoulder at the bench. He's still looks like he sometimes worried of doing too much, not doing it right enough, taking shots away from so and so, and so on, and in turn, getting the quick hook. You can see in-game he looks at the bench constantly, it's like a tick waiting to get pulled.

He's got the longest tenure on this team, is always asked to defend the opponents best perimeter player (despite some noise lately that get's me that this is Bilal doing this) and defends 1 through 5 on most nights, has now brought his offense to 50/38/75 splits nearly 50 games into the season, and yet he's a guy that is still asked to play with play with units that won't pass him the ball, he rarely closes games for a reasons I'll never understand, and gets choppy minutes throughout the game. Oh yeah and he just turned 23.

Going back to his strides this year, despite them, he's playing less than an additional minute per game. As I've said in other thread, my hope is that this changes after the trade deadline. Deni had to earn it, but everyone is okay that Bilal is playing almost as much time as a rookie as Deni is this season.

This team still hasn't shaken of the yoke of nepotism and meritless favoritism.

How do you explain his short leash despite these nice strides he has made this season?

Boggles me it comes from two coaches who calling themselves "defensive minded".

Anyway, I'm trying to push him to play at a level when even the WUJ and Keefes of the worlds wouldn't find reasons to bench him.

I think it's a possible combination of things including:

1) WUJ was susceptible to player politics and very obviously wasn't able to rein in more established, veteran players. His coaching style was essentially if you had a certain reputation, that's how he was going to treat you. Deni had no established reputation, thus it was easier for WUJ to have a lot more say over his minutes even though as a defensive minded coach you'd think Deni would be a favorite of his. I'm sure there are some on here think WUJ was even-handed with Deni, but I'd patently disagree.

As for Keefe, jury is still out on him. I think he came in at a weird time, so I'm going to have a good deal of patience with him for the time being (basically before the deadline and All-Star break) because he was put in his position a few weeks before the trade deadline when we are obviously trying to move some pieces. He really in a lot of ways is playing similar rotations to WUJ, but playing Bilal more, but I'm making an educated guess that he neither wants to (1) shake things up too much as we continue to showcase players and (2) he hasn't really had the opportunity to implement more of his style of play on the team.

2) Kind of dovetailing off the first point, my hope is now that the team (hopefully) has a much more savvy front office in place is that that they can see the potential with Deni, and again are pushing the coaching staff to showcase other players. No need to play heavy minutes to a kid you just resigned and obviously has a lot of upside at 23 until after the deadline when you are trying to accumulate assets. Biggest fear I have is this front is that Winger and Dawkins don't see Deni as their guy, and they are not dictating anything regarding him. I don't think this is the case, but it's possible I guess.

3) Deni hurts the tank. Playing players that play the right way both offensively and defensively, can only put you at a disadvantage.

4) Sometimes Deni doesn't deserve more time. There was a stretch in December that he just looked completely out of sorts, and that he was thinking too much. It came out of nowhere it felt, but yet he wasn't playing up to his ability. I think by-and-large, he should still see a consistent 30 minutes, but there are times where a reduction is merited. Maybe I could swallow this pill more easily if it was consistently done with all players on the roster, a roster that consists of no players that have ever come close to sniffing an All-NBA team, All-Star game, All-Defensive team. I also think even on most games where Deni is off, he's a player that does other things that you love to see. It's just on those off nights, some on this teammates use it an excuse to just ignore him. As others have pointed out, a good coach would get him more involved on an every night basis in the offense, not just nights when he's playing exceptional.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Was just peaking at some stats this morning for Deni. Among SF he has the following ranks:

1) 5th in FG%.

2) 10th in rebounds per game despite averaging 4 minutes less than the next nearest guy (Kuzma by happenstance) in the top 10; Deni ranks 5th in rebounds per 36 minutes.

3) 11th in assists per game with only Kyle Anderson and Khris Middleton averaging these minutes than him among the guys in front of him; after those two guys, Kuzma is again the next nearest guys in terms of minutes per game played; Deni ranks 5th in assists per 36 minutes.

4) 14th in 3pt%; I'll caveat he technically doesn't qualify as of today to be counted as you need to be on pace to have 82 three pointers made and he stands at 47 makes through 48 games as of this post, so only one make off that pace.

5) 19th in FT%.

6) 23rd and 24th in SPG and BPG among SF; ranks 29th per 36 minutes for both categories.