Miami Heat 2023/2024 Regular Season - Thread 2.0

[BBallFreak]

C Bam Adebayo C Thomas Bryant C Orlando Robinson
PF Nikola Jovic PF Kevin Love PF Haywood Highsmith
SF Jimmy Butler SF Jaime Jaquez Jr SF Jamal Cain
SG Tyler Herro SG Josh Richardson SG Cole Swider
PG Dejounte Murray PG Kyle Lowry PG Patty Mills

If the Hawks don't want to eat so much money we can work out this deal to include Patty Mills and they end up eating Dru Smith's contract in the process. It would put us 1.725 million away from the super tax and allow for prorated signings of Swider and Cain. My first guess is the Heat will do everything possible to get the Hawks to eat as much money this year as possible keeping Mills out of the deal as Micky is probably having a hard time looking at his current 28 million dollar tax bill.


Miami Heat deals

SG/SF Duncan Robinson 18.1
SF Caleb Martin 6'8
PG Dru Smith(Contract dump) 1.8 million
2027 pick swap
2028 1st round pick
2030 1st round pick

25 million out

to Hawks for

PG Dejounte Murray
PG Patty Mills
Future 2nd round pick

26.7 million in

I just can't stop thinking about the opportunity cost here.

Murray is a fine player, even if I don't like his game I'll admit he's a big upgrade over our current PGs.

But if we're giving all this package for him, you're just giving up on getting a D.Mitchell or any other real Allstar guard.

If we add just one more assets to this package, don't you think we can go after the real big fish?

This move just feels so..treadmilly.

You still have a 1st or 2, Herro, Murray to recoup assets if needed. We’d be able to work something out

But we're now squarely over the second apron and still need to add another player because we sent out three and only received two. That's not where we want to be.

[twix2500]

I def get where you're coming from, the idea of being stuck without trade-enticing assets for so long and building up just enough and then using them on something less than a lead scoring star guard that can go toe-to-toe with the top offensive guys in the league def stings. But, like some others have mentioned it's all about cost and being able to maintain some assets for supplementary future moves. It's a tough pill to swallow reasonably disqualifying Miami from any future sweepstakes for someone like Mitchell or Fox by exhausting some of the few FRPs we have. But, there are a lot of teams out there with A LOT of draft capital right now that can dwarf our offer today.

The other side of it is while Murray doesn't fit the bill of true lead scoring guard. He is the next best thing--a capable 3-level scorer that can actually run the offense AND serve as the point of attack defender this team has been sorely lacking this season. The fit makes a ton of sense in terms of both allowing Murray to play to his strengths AND allow the rest of our personnel to slot back into their more natural roles. Herro can play more off-ball, while still having some secondary playmaking. Bam can benefit from having more looks created for him while still serving as a secondary playmaker. Jimmy can pick his spots while allowing a true point to run the show. Miami's defensive personnel goes from a question mark of how much Bam and Haywood need to cover for weaker lineups to instead rarely hiding more than one defender. That dynamic point of attack defense allows Bam to prioritize more paint protection and turnovers, allows Jimmy to loosen up his burden and play more like a ballhawk safety.

In this hypo, I can realistically see Miami becoming the best defense in the NBA during a playoff run.

Yall give too many people the 3 level scorer title. Some too satisfied with someone being mediocre or average at something. Elite wins not average. You don't look at a boxer and say he can win a chip because he average at everything. Being average at everything is not a recipe for a chip. You want to be elite at something that your weakness not something easy to expose. Find an identity and be elite at it.

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What an elite post! Did you see me qualify that he's a "capable 3-level scorer"? Or did you just want a strawman towards which to orient your soap box?

You're saying that Murray wouldn't immediately be the best slashing guard on our roster the second he was added?

It's not about him being elite at it--which he clearly isn't. It's about another high usage player functioning in a manner that he can create rim pressure and generate offense from that, while not solely being limited to that. The SAS version of Murray was an above average slasher and impactful playmaker off that slashing.

IDK if you've paid any attention to Murray but he's actually a super effective midrange shooter. Over 35% of his FGA historically come from the midrange and he converts them at very healthy clips. The biggest question for me is if his 3 point shooting is real enough.

capable = average. Not saying Murray is a bad player, I like Murray. The Heat offense not bad. The Heat have a lot of players they want handling the ball, Jovic, Jaquez, Bam, Butler Lowry, Herro, then adding another ok high usage ball handler who will likely not be the dominant ball handler is not gonna be a huge impact. Already was a rift between Spo and Lowry because Spo wanted Herro taking up all the handling leaving Lowry standing in the corner. You will be endanger of building a team full of similar ok aspects like the Raptors we're before they got Quickley. I would take Murray but wouldn't over pay for him. Have someone that scares the living **** out of teams at something. Murray is better player than Quickley but Quickley would likely been a bigger impact on the Heats team. Team is getting filled with too many ok ball handlers that their usage will get saturated

I agree with Rex concerns about Murray.

[MettaWorldPanda]

I just can't stop thinking about the opportunity cost here.

Murray is a fine player, even if I don't like his game I'll admit he's a big upgrade over our current PGs.

But if we're giving all this package for him, you're just giving up on getting a D.Mitchell or any other real Allstar guard.

If we add just one more assets to this package, don't you think we can go after the real big fish?

This move just feels so..treadmilly.

You still have a 1st or 2, Herro, Murray to recoup assets if needed. We’d be able to work something out

But we're now squarely over the second apron and still need to add another player because we sent out three and only received two. That's not where we want to be.

How are we over the 2nd apron? I did the math already. Everything works out beautifully. Many variations to get away from the super tax this year and away from tax next year cause of Lowry’s expiring. We would have MLE money next year cause of Robinson’s deal coming off the books in the trade. If we include Bryant’s contract in the deal it’s another 2.5 off. The Murray trade offers better avenues then most.

[greg4012]

Yall give too many people the 3 level scorer title. Some too satisfied with someone being mediocre or average at something. Elite wins not average. You don't look at a boxer and say he can win a chip because he average at everything. Being average at everything is not a recipe for a chip. You want to be elite at something that your weakness not something easy to expose. Find an identity and be elite at it.

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What an elite post! Did you see me qualify that he's a "capable 3-level scorer"? Or did you just want a strawman towards which to orient your soap box?

You're saying that Murray wouldn't immediately be the best slashing guard on our roster the second he was added?

It's not about him being elite at it--which he clearly isn't. It's about another high usage player functioning in a manner that he can create rim pressure and generate offense from that, while not solely being limited to that. The SAS version of Murray was an above average slasher and impactful playmaker off that slashing.

IDK if you've paid any attention to Murray but he's actually a super effective midrange shooter. Over 35% of his FGA historically come from the midrange and he converts them at very healthy clips. The biggest question for me is if his 3 point shooting is real enough.

capable = average. Not saying Murray is a bad player, I like Murray. The Heat offense not bad. The Heat have a lot of players they want handling the ball, Jovic, Jaquez, Bam, Butler Lowry, Herro, then adding another ok high usage ball handler who will likely not be the dominant ball handler is not gonna be a huge impact. Already was a rift between Spo and Lowry because Spo wanted Herro taking up all the handling leaving Lowry standing in the corner. You will be endanger of building a team full of similar ok aspects like the Raptors we're before they got Quickley. I would take Murray but wouldn't over pay for him. Have someone that scares the living **** out of teams at something. Murray is better player than Quickley but Quickley would likely been a bigger impact on the Heats team. Team is getting filled with too many ok ball handlers that their usage will get saturated

I agree with Rex concerns about Murray.

So you presume that the average NBA player is a capable slasher vs NBA defenses? I disagree. But I understand the function of misrepresenting what others say to take them to extremes to thus prop up your contrasting position. Enjoy that.

We see it quite differently. Def would be a needle mover but not a whale. I think you're projecting storylines onto the internal Heat goings-on that none of us are privy to.

[al bondiga]

We have to keep in mind that no team is gonna part with A consistent cuasi- all star player For bench riders... No matter how many you Throw at them

[Beenie]

Heat don’t necessarily need to get an elite player to get them over the hump, although one would certainly be a welcomed addition.

A bubble Dragic type of guard would do the trick.

I suspect that Murray could offer a similar impact.

[HeatIn5]

How about something like

To Heat - Dejounte, Thad Young

To Hawks - Siakam, Otto Porter

To Raptors - Lowry, Caleb, Bogdan, Jalen Johnson, 1 Heat 1st, 1 Heat pick swap

[twix2500]

Heat don’t necessarily need to get an elite player to get them over the hump, although one would certainly be a welcomed addition.

A bubble Dragic type of guard would do the trick.

I suspect that Murray could offer a similar impact.

Dragic became Super Saiyan Dragic in playoffs until he broke himself. So yes it took another super performer.

And hopefully last year Butler didn't break himself

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[twix2500]

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I expect this to be Kings or Indiana


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[Beenie]

How about something like

To Heat - Dejounte, Thad Young

To Hawks - Siakam, Otto Porter

To Raptors - Lowry, Caleb, Bogdan, Jalen Johnson, 1 Heat 1st, 1 Heat pick swap

Not bad for Atl and Mia but Tor I suspect would want a better return

[twix2500]

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Bishop bat signal went up

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[Beenie]

Heat don’t necessarily need to get an elite player to get them over the hump, although one would certainly be a welcomed addition.

A bubble Dragic type of guard would do the trick.

I suspect that Murray could offer a similar impact.

Dragic became Super Saiyan Dragic in playoffs until he broke himself. So yes it took another super performer.

He’s was excellent. Hit a lot of timely buckets. Carried the offense for stretches. But he never really went too crazy. Never scored 30 or more or registered 10+ assists. No gaudy performances really. And that’s the point; Mia doesn’t necessarily need someone who gets gaudy numbers. A solid player who can assume the primary scoring role for stretches to spare Jimmy at times and can make timely plays in the playoffs will do just fine.

[RexBoyWonder]

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Bishop bat signal went up

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[Bishop45]

Scoop B should be considered spam at this point

That said, I could do Herro for Randle and sleep peacefully at night

[carnageta]

Who gets left out in the playoffs when Spo goes to 8 man rotation?

Jovic for sure. I could see Spo going 10 deep this year. Depends on the matchups as well, could be times when KLove is left to sit if the opposing team goes uber small.

Theres no way Spo does that, at worse it would be a 9 man rotation. The reason why teams go deep at the end of the bench is during the season to keep minutes down on certain players saving them for the playoffs. Statistics show that the longer a player is on the court with the same group the better the connection and the better the cohesion to a degree. Not overplaying someone to the point their dead tired, I mean that during the playoffs there are habits, all players have them, the more you are comfortable with another's habits the better the connection. Hence why coaches shorten the rotation unless of course there's a foul issue, where you have no other choice or injuries during the game.

Heck one of our biggest disgust with Spo is his inability to make in game adjustments, but were not paying attention to what he is really doing and that's most of the time he understands that forcing the rotation to fix itself on its own is far more positive in the long run. Sometimes that may not pay off during another teams run in that one moment or game but holding the line with your set rotations creates good habits and more cohesion on finding a solution. That right there tells me, that Spo will in the end make the tough decision and shorten the rotation in the playoffs.

Meh, let's not pretend like only 8 players will play in a playoff game. It's all matchup dependent.

In game 2 against the Nuggets (and most of the series) Spo literally played a 10 man rotation.

In the Knicks series, there were numerous games where Spo went 10 deep.

In the Bucks series, there were numerous games where Spo went 10 deep.


We don't live in a perfect world lol. Foul trouble happens, struggles happen. If everyone is healthy Spo has at least 10 rotational guys. In a game 7? Yeah I agree, we probably won't go 10 deep. But in games 1,2,3,4,etc. Spo is going to play Caleb, JRich, Highsmith, JJJ, Love, and Robinson (along with Lowry, Herro, Butler, Bam) and see which player has a larger impact / matches up better against the opposing team and use that to narrow down the rotation.

[carnageta]

In game 5 against the Bucks (close out game) Spo played 10 people.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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Barry has spoke, hopefully the Heat throw their hat in.

[twix2500]

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Suns had a lot of interest in Caleb

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[twix2500]

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Barry has spoke, hopefully the Heat throw their hat in.

We will see. Imo it would have to be a 3 team deal

[twix2500]

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