Best defensive players of all time

[trelos6]

So the general consensus is that Bill Russell is #1.

From there we have Hakeem, D Rob, Duncan and Garnett rounding out the top 5.

Then following them, Mutombo, Wilt, Thurmond, B.Wallace, Ewing round out the top 10.

Following them, we have Draymond, Kareem, Mourning, Howard, Bobby Jones, Dennis Rodman, Rudy Gobert, Anthony Davis, Eaton, Pippen.

How does your top 20 look?

Obviously it's heavily weighted by big men, as they provide the most defensive value.

[kcktiny]

Hard to argue with anyone one your list. That are all deserving.

Got to expand it to include some guards. Maybe do a list of top 20 by position.

[70sFan]

It's a very good list. I don't know how you weigh minutes played, but in terms of sheer impact Manute Bol is definitely among the greatest defenders ever.

[trelos6]

It's a very good list. I don't know how you weigh minutes played, but in terms of sheer impact Manute Bol is definitely among the greatest defenders ever.

Great shout. He’s def up there.

[wafflzgod]

no Giannis shout?

[homecourtloss]

It's a very good list. I don't know how you weigh minutes played, but in terms of sheer impact Manute Bol is definitely among the greatest defenders ever.

Great shout. He’s def up there.

The other one that I would have here would be Shawn Bradley.

After him, I think Jason Collins and Arvydas Sabonis (biggest impact was on defense) also a belong up, with of course a limited minutes Bill Walton. If we want some non=bigs, then Tony Allen.

[EmpireFalls]

Victor Wembanyama is up there with any of them in his peak games and I’m not even exaggerating

[Rishkar]

1. Bill Russell
2. David Robinson
3. Hakeem
4.KG
5. Ben Wallace
6. Nate Thurmond
7. Dikembe Mutombo
8. Rudy Gobert
9.Tim Duncan
10. Patrick Ewing
11. Wilt
12. Bobby Jones
13. Sheed
14. Rodman
15. Kawhi
16. Tony Allen
17. Walt Frazier
18. Jason Kidd
19. Mark Eaton
20. Draymond
21. Dwight Howard
22. Jerry West
23. Scottie Pippen
24. Sidney Moncrief
25. Artis Gilmore

[rk2023]

Russell
—-
Hakeem Thurmond Walton Wilt
Duncan Garnett
Ben
Robinson Green

[KGtabake]

Moncrief and Leonard deserve a mention.

[One_and_Done]

So the general consensus is that Bill Russell is #1.

From there we have Hakeem, D Rob, Duncan and Garnett rounding out the top 5.

Then following them, Mutombo, Wilt, Thurmond, B.Wallace, Ewing round out the top 10.

Following them, we have Draymond, Kareem, Mourning, Howard, Bobby Jones, Dennis Rodman, Rudy Gobert, Anthony Davis, Eaton, Pippen.

How does your top 20 look?

Obviously it's heavily weighted by big men, as they provide the most dbefensive value.

Disagree. I'd have Duncan #1.

[McBubbles]

Am I the only person that forgot Nate Thurmond existed? Not even defensively, just like, completely completely forgot he existed? I've been thinking about underrated centers for the past few weeks like Bill Walton and Moses Malone yet I didn't think of him once lol.

Russell
Hakeem, KG, Robinson, Walton, Wilt
Duncan, Wallace, Gobert, Mutumbo, Ewing(?), Thurmond (?)
Mourning, Howard, Eaton, Giannis, Draymond, Kareem
Gasol, Lopez, Bogut, Nene, Sheed
Rodman, Pippen, Kawhi, Battier, Kidd, Lebron, Tony Allen,

[penbeast0]

Am I the only person that forgot Nate Thurmond existed? Not even defensively, just like, completely completely forgot he existed? I've been thinking about underrated centers for the past few weeks like Bill Walton and Moses Malone yet I didn't think of him once lol.

Russell
Hakeem, KG, Robinson, Walton, Wilt
Duncan, Wallace, Gobert, Mutumbo, Ewing(?), Thurmond (?)
Mourning, Howard, Eaton, Giannis, Draymond, Kareem
Gasol, Lopez, Bogut, Nene, Sheed
Rodman, Pippen, Kawhi, Battier, Kidd, Lebron, Tony Allen,

Eaton and Pau seem high, Lopez if you look only at Milwaukee might be there but not if you look at his earlier years, Bobby Jones has more 1st team All-Defense awards than anyone else (8 in NBA, 2 in ABA) and is sort of conspicuously missing.

[McBubbles]

Am I the only person that forgot Nate Thurmond existed? Not even defensively, just like, completely completely forgot he existed? I've been thinking about underrated centers for the past few weeks like Bill Walton and Moses Malone yet I didn't think of him once lol.

Russell
Hakeem, KG, Robinson, Walton, Wilt
Duncan, Wallace, Gobert, Mutumbo, Ewing(?), Thurmond (?)
Mourning, Howard, Eaton, Giannis, Draymond, Kareem
Gasol, Lopez, Bogut, Nene, Sheed
Rodman, Pippen, Kawhi, Battier, Kidd, Lebron, Tony Allen,

Eaton and Pau seem high, Lopez if you look only at Milwaukee might be there but not if you look at his earlier years, Bobby Jones has more 1st team All-Defense awards than anyone else (8 in NBA, 2 in ABA) and is sort of conspicuously missing.

Oh yeah, I deleted it for some reason but my list is based off of peak. Outside of the top names I honestly don't know enough about some players year to year consistency to make a career average based list.

And I just forgot about Bobby Jones tbh he likely should be there.

[Owly]

Am I the only person that forgot Nate Thurmond existed? Not even defensively, just like, completely completely forgot he existed? I've been thinking about underrated centers for the past few weeks like Bill Walton and Moses Malone yet I didn't think of him once lol.

Russell
Hakeem, KG, Robinson, Walton, Wilt
Duncan, Wallace, Gobert, Mutumbo, Ewing(?), Thurmond (?)
Mourning, Howard, Eaton, Giannis, Draymond, Kareem
Gasol, Lopez, Bogut, Nene, Sheed
Rodman, Pippen, Kawhi, Battier, Kidd, Lebron, Tony Allen,

Eaton and Pau seem high, Lopez if you look only at Milwaukee might be there but not if you look at his earlier years, Bobby Jones has more 1st team All-Defense awards than anyone else (8 in NBA, 2 in ABA) and is sort of conspicuously missing.

Assume "Gasol" is Marc in this context.


Since I haven't seen the name come up so far (could have missed it) based (from memory) on long term RAPM (97-14) and studies of team stats in his absence (remembering one from as soon as his rookie year) I think we can be pretty confident Shawn Bradley, though ... I had only really skimmed it yesterday, and looking at it now homecourtloss brings him up. Still, because he wasn't quite as specialized (not a good offensive player but I think not nearly as harmful as Eaton and Bol) and had higher expectations (to some he was a bust and/or the butt of jokes) he doesn't get mentioned as often with the other supergiants as high impact defenders - I think he can get forgotten as a very high value defender and a net valuable player.

More generally for these lists it depends on a lot of criteria stuff. Peak or career value? Do minutes matter or more rate-wise? Is there a theoretical attempt to neutralize for offensive load or just "what they were". Do we attempt to account for position in some way? And I guess as ever how much one tilts towards playoffs (though measuring D is already hard enough, now we're working with much smaller samples in an area where our best read is probably impact stuff [i.e. stuff that's noisy in small samples] ...).

[MaxZaslofskyJr]

Bobby Jones was THE best defensive player ever. This thread is vastly underrating him.

[kcktiny]

Bobby Jones was THE best defensive player ever. This thread is vastly underrating him.

For a non-C I agree he has a great argument for best defender.

I don' believe his impact on defense is as great as the best defensive shot blocking Cs. But he has every case to be compared with PFs like Duncan, Garnett, Rodman, Green.

He is actually vastly underrated as one of the very best all-around non-Cs, let alone on defense. Great defense and efficient offense.

[SNPA]

Draymond > Rodman ?

People here agree with that?

[70sFan]

Bobby Jones was THE best defensive player ever. This thread is vastly underrating him.

For a non-C I agree he has a great argument for best defender.

I don' believe his impact on defense is as great as the best defensive shot blocking Cs. But he has every case to be compared with PFs like Duncan, Garnett, Rodman, Green.

He is actually vastly underrated as one of the very best all-around non-Cs, let alone on defense. Great defense and efficient offense.

Duncan was functionally a shot blocking center defensively throughout his career.

[Dutchball97]

Bobby Jones was THE best defensive player ever. This thread is vastly underrating him.

For a non-C I agree he has a great argument for best defender.

I don' believe his impact on defense is as great as the best defensive shot blocking Cs. But he has every case to be compared with PFs like Duncan, Garnett, Rodman, Green.

He is actually vastly underrated as one of the very best all-around non-Cs, let alone on defense. Great defense and efficient offense.

Duncan was functionally a shot blocking center defensively throughout his career.

I probably would just call Duncan a big tbh. Trying to curate a list of PFs who are all somehow similar in playstyle is pretty much impossible as you're almost just as likely to find a slightly larger wing at the position as a (usually more mobile) big. Guys like KG, Draymond and Giannis are even a bit of a mix of both worlds.