NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread)

TheShow2021 · Post #161 » by **TheShow2021** » Sat Jan 13, 2024 3:47 am

The current ESPN RPM leaders:
1. Jokic 2. Hali 3. Tatum 4. Luka 5. Embiid 6. Curry 7. Shai
Current VORP leaders:
1. Jokic 2. Shai 3. Luka 4. Gianis 5. Embiid

Would like to add that stretch of 2 games which Jokic went 18/58, he was clearly bothered by injury and that put a huge dent in his numbers...

For me if it weren't for the missed games, and using the eye test, it would have been Embiid, but Jokic's advanced stat dominance, and Embiid many missed games, make Jokic the right choice.

Shai has been fantastic too, but in the regular season, Jokic has nobody close to Chet. Denver would break the league if you replaced AG with (a consistently healthy) Chet.

kan_t · Post #162 » by **kan_t** » Sat Jan 13, 2024 6:10 am

GeorgeSears wrote:Embiid is about to miss another, that makes it 7 left... I thought this race was a done deal, and It might still very well be, but it's not interesting.

If OKC gets the first seed, I could see SGA having a strong push at season end.

scrabbarista · Post #163 » by **scrabbarista** » Sat Jan 13, 2024 6:51 am

Since Tatum is a topic, I'll say that no, he's not in the clear top four now. Without looking into the numbers, I imagine I'd give him the benefit of the doubt over Luka for the fifth spot, but who knows. Maybe not.

But what I really want to say in Tatum's defense is that I've said for a few years now that I'd rather build around him than Embiid, even though Embiid is the "better player." I still feel that way. Health and leadership/intangibles make up the difference in talent and per-minute production for me.

Gatorade Sax · Post #164 » by **Gatorade Sax** » Sat Jan 13, 2024 6:57 am

Cubbies2120 wrote:Jokic in the last 7 games:

62/73 FG
5/6 3PT
23/27 FT

Lol, this is absolutely otherworldly.

AleksandarN · Post #165 » by **AleksandarN** » Sat Jan 13, 2024 8:11 am

Read on Twitter

jokeboy86 · Post #166 » by **jokeboy86** » Sat Jan 13, 2024 1:22 pm

AleksandarN wrote:

Read on Twitter

I imagine this is how talking heads and a few casuals feel about Jokic and the MVP race:

I said this a while ago unless he retires early Jokic is probably going to be an automatic top 3 candidate for MVP for a long time. And what the league probably didnt realize is the games requirement only helps him cause the guy hardly misses games. Again I expect the SGA campaign to really ramp up after the break and I imagine the heads will start to push Tatum more because of the season the Celts are having. But if Denver gets the top West seed than they deny the obvious

GeorgeSears · Post #167 » by **GeorgeSears** » Sat Jan 13, 2024 2:48 pm

AleksandarN wrote:

Read on Twitter

That underhand scoop pass by MPJ was lowkey amazing.

RB34 · Post #168 » by **RB34** » Sat Jan 13, 2024 4:38 pm

AleksandarN wrote:

Read on Twitter

He looked extremely quick in this game, for his standard anyway. Likes he’s got a second wind.

CD_41 · Post #169 » by **CD_41** » Sat Jan 13, 2024 4:45 pm

RB34 wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:

Read on Twitter

He looked extremely quick in this game, for his standard anyway. Likes he’s got a second wind.

100%. That one dunk looked fluid AF.
I've probably seen 95% of his highlight passes. But still, he never amazes me how effective and flashy he is setting up his team mates.

Wolfgang630 · Post #170 » by **Wolfgang630** » Sat Jan 13, 2024 4:49 pm

Yeah how come he dunked so much (2 times) lol. It feels out of place seeing him dunk in highlights

scrabbarista · Post #171 » by **scrabbarista** » Sat Jan 13, 2024 5:08 pm

Wolfgang630 wrote:Yeah how come he dunked so much (2 times) lol. It feels out of place seeing him dunk in highlights

The second one, the Shaq Dunk, when Nurkic got the flopping tech, I thought for sure the whistle was for his hanging on the rim, which it should have been (at least, with how it's been called this season). :lol:

DCasey91 · Post #172 » by **DCasey91** » Sat Jan 13, 2024 5:16 pm

Jokic is heading for another GOAT like offensive season. Dudes a cheat code, even when he didn’t hit his shots he was still producing like an all time offensive engine.

Bird + McHale + Dirk + Magic in a bigger Gasol body
lol easy ggs yo

QPR · Post #173 » by **QPR** » Sun Jan 14, 2024 3:58 am

Pretty clear two man race right now.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #174 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:22 am

QPR wrote:Pretty clear two man race right now.

I'd agree though not sure if you mean the same two guys I have in mind which are Jokic and Giannis. Embiid has missed too many games now to be mentioned with them imo. It's 39gp for Jokic, 37 for Giannis and 27 for Joel. Shai is also worth a mention and I'd put him 3rd.

Young gun 6 · Post #175 » by **Young gun 6** » Sun Jan 14, 2024 6:32 am

Cavsfansince84 wrote:
QPR wrote:Pretty clear two man race right now.

I'd agree though not sure if you mean the same two guys I have in mind which are Jokic and Giannis. Embiid has missed too many games now to be mentioned with them imo. It's 39gp for Jokic, 37 for Giannis and 27 for Joel. Shai is also worth a mention and I'd put him 3rd.

I’d say he means Jokic and SGA.

QPR · Post #176 » by **QPR** » Sun Jan 14, 2024 6:43 am

Cavsfansince84 wrote:
QPR wrote:Pretty clear two man race right now.

I'd agree though not sure if you mean the same two guys I have in mind which are Jokic and Giannis. Embiid has missed too many games now to be mentioned with them imo. It's 39gp for Jokic, 37 for Giannis and 27 for Joel. Shai is also worth a mention and I'd put him 3rd.

I think Jokic and SGA are pretty clearly out in front right now. Giannis is probably next in line.

Even if Embiid gets to 65 games, I'm not sure he's going to have been that much better than the aforementioned guys if they play 75+. It's too big a gap.

WhatTheBuck · Post #177 » by **WhatTheBuck** » Sun Jan 14, 2024 7:41 am

QPR wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:
QPR wrote:Pretty clear two man race right now.

I'd agree though not sure if you mean the same two guys I have in mind which are Jokic and Giannis. Embiid has missed too many games now to be mentioned with them imo. It's 39gp for Jokic, 37 for Giannis and 27 for Joel. Shai is also worth a mention and I'd put him 3rd.

I think Jokic and SGA are pretty clearly out in front right now. Giannis is probably next in line.

Even if Embiid gets to 65 games, I'm not sure he's going to have been that much better than the aforementioned guys if they play 75+. It's too big a gap.

Can you tell us why you think SGA is clearly out in front of Giannis, without referring to age?

lethalizer · Post #178 » by **lethalizer** » Sun Jan 14, 2024 7:56 am

WhatTheBuck wrote:
Can you tell us why you think SGA is clearly out in front of Giannis, without referring to age?

Shai has the lead over Giannis in basically every metric available right now can be a good reason.

EPM has Shai at +10.1 vs Giannis' 7.3.

Win Shares is at +7.9 vs +6.5.

VORP is at +3.9 vs +3.3

And Shai is actually having a more *efficient* season compared to Giannis, which is purely insane for a guard, while providing nearly identical scoring.

it'd be hard to make a case for Giannis over SGA currently, though i'd love to hear some concrete thoughts about this. You being a Bucks fan, why would you put him over SGA?

scrabbarista · Post #179 » by **scrabbarista** » Sun Jan 14, 2024 7:59 am

Wolfgang630 wrote:Yeah how come he dunked so much (2 times) lol. It feels out of place seeing him dunk in highlights

He was in the zone!

QPR · Post #180 » by **QPR** » Sun Jan 14, 2024 9:15 am

WhatTheBuck wrote:
QPR wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:
I'd agree though not sure if you mean the same two guys I have in mind which are Jokic and Giannis. Embiid has missed too many games now to be mentioned with them imo. It's 39gp for Jokic, 37 for Giannis and 27 for Joel. Shai is also worth a mention and I'd put him 3rd.

I think Jokic and SGA are pretty clearly out in front right now. Giannis is probably next in line.

Even if Embiid gets to 65 games, I'm not sure he's going to have been that much better than the aforementioned guys if they play 75+. It's too big a gap.

Can you tell us why you think SGA is clearly out in front of Giannis, without referring to age?

A couple of reasons.

Firstly, it's pretty hard to find a meaningful metric that SGA isn't ahead in. He is a primary ballhandler who doesn't turn it over, plays both ends and scores at mind-boggling efficiency.

Secondly, there is a narrative there. Milwaukee were expected to be among the best teams in the league, especially after adding Lillard. OKC on the other hand are probably ahead of schedule, as I suspect most would have had them as a 5/6 seed at best at this stage of their development. That's not necessarily fair as Milwaukee are a perennial contender because of Giannis, but voters are generally lazy and look for angles.

I should add that when I say I think those two are out in front, that's my view on how I think the voting would go if the season ended now, not necessarily what I think (I personally have Jokic comfortably first).

Who is leading the race for MVP? (players listed in alphabetical order)