What wrong Raptors did to Siakam that he is giving such hard time to Raptors?

[metafisical]

"I love being a Raptor, I would love to spend my entire career here," VanVleet told Adam Laskaris of the Daily Hive. "We have a great relationship with the city, the franchise, ownership, management. It's a match made in heaven for me. I love being a Toronto Raptor and hopefully we can continue that on." - June 2022.

FVV & Siakam contract patterns entering last year have many similarities.

Exactly. When players state they want to stay, they mean they want to stay at the highest price that is dictated by the player. Siakim is no different from FVV. That's fine. Siakim has a right to rip off the Raptors and cap tie us for an eternity.

It's on the front office to do the right thing and make the right choice. Siakim better be gone before the deadline.

[SurgeIblocka]

You have to look at it this way, if this was a KD or Kawhi or Giannis or Tatum or any of the main top 20 players in the nba in their final year, we would be getting really good offers for them. The issue really is here that we treated Siakam like a max player and gave him the reigns. The league is not stupid, they know he should be paid around 35 Mil, and dont want to be stuck with a 5 year max contract for a non max player. This is why we are getting crappy offers. So all the blame is on Masai who has become a terrible talent evaluator. He propped him like a major star and now its coming to bite him

[Chuck Everett]

You have to look at it this way, if this was a KD or Kawhi or Giannis or Tatum or any of the main top 20 players in the nba in their final year, we would be getting really good offers for them. The issue really is here that we treated Siakam like a max player and gave him the reigns. The league is not stupid, they know he should be paid around 35 Mil, and dont want to be stuck with a 5 year max contract for a non max player. This is why we are getting crappy offers. So all the blame is on Masai who has become a terrible talent evaluator. He propped him like a major star and now its coming to bite him

Bingo!

[bballsparkin]

He is trying to maximize his pay cheque and this could be his last big contract. In case of a tie breaker he would like to chose a team/city like Dallas instead of say,...Detroit. The FO does not seem to want to max him out at 5 years as the teams young promising player Barnes overlaps with Pascal. And here we are.

is our 4 year max higher in pay for some other team's 4 year max due to bird rights

Yes. We can give him 8% raises while another team can only gife 5%. I believe it amounts to a difference of ~$7M over the life of the contract.

That 5th year is ~$56M.

So, is that $7M enough to prevent him from signing with a team like Philly where he may think he has more chance of success? Does a team like the Pacers have to commit to the 5th year? Hard to know at present.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

is our 4 year max higher in pay for some other team's 4 year max due to bird rights

Yes. We can give him 8% raises while another team can only gife 5%. I believe it amounts to a difference of ~$7M over the life of the contract.

That 5th year is ~$56M.

So, is that $7M enough to prevent him from signing with a team like Philly where he may think he has more chance of success? Does a team like the Pacers have to commit to the 5th year? Hard to know at present.

the question is tho what is the hangup? if masai feels he doesn't deserve the max, then what is fair? og is expected to make 30-35 per year. then is siakam making 40-45 not fair? and if he is making around 47-48 is it such a massive overpayment when the lux tax is around 170M.
there are still a lot of missing pieces here.

[Appostis]

You have to look at it this way, if this was a KD or Kawhi or Giannis or Tatum or any of the main top 20 players in the nba in their final year, we would be getting really good offers for them. The issue really is here that we treated Siakam like a max player and gave him the reigns. The league is not stupid, they know he should be paid around 35 Mil, and dont want to be stuck with a 5 year max contract for a non max player. This is why we are getting crappy offers. So all the blame is on Masai who has become a terrible talent evaluator. He propped him like a major star and now its coming to bite him

But he is a max player *shrug* not a super max but he certainly is a max level player.

If Pascal was agreeable to resign at the max for any team that he could be traded you would see 5-6 teams ready to do it.. teams don't want to trade for a one year rental with no contract control.

Not sure how some people find this so difficult to understand...

[AkelaLoneWolf]

You have to look at it this way, if this was a KD or Kawhi or Giannis or Tatum or any of the main top 20 players in the nba in their final year, we would be getting really good offers for them. The issue really is here that we treated Siakam like a max player and gave him the reigns. The league is not stupid, they know he should be paid around 35 Mil, and dont want to be stuck with a 5 year max contract for a non max player. This is why we are getting crappy offers. So all the blame is on Masai who has become a terrible talent evaluator. He propped him like a major star and now its coming to bite him

jerami grant got paid 32; og will be paid around 35; if the league thinks he doesn't deserve more than 35, then that is severe underpayment.

[bballsparkin]

^^The end years are the hang up I suspect. 4th and especially the 5th.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

You have to look at it this way, if this was a KD or Kawhi or Giannis or Tatum or any of the main top 20 players in the nba in their final year, we would be getting really good offers for them. The issue really is here that we treated Siakam like a max player and gave him the reigns. The league is not stupid, they know he should be paid around 35 Mil, and dont want to be stuck with a 5 year max contract for a non max player. This is why we are getting crappy offers. So all the blame is on Masai who has become a terrible talent evaluator. He propped him like a major star and now its coming to bite him

But he is a max player *shrug* not a super max but he certainly is a max level player.

If Pascal was agreeable to resign at the max for any team that he could be traded you would see 5-6 teams ready to do it.. teams don't want to trade for a one year rental with no contract control.

Not sure how some people find this so difficult to understand...

its a two way street too though. one reason pascal's agent could be putting the rumors of not re-signing with his new team is that the teams themselves are not ready to commit to a max salary for him.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

^^The end years are the hang up I suspect. 4th and especially the 5th.

how much of that matters tho? i expect he will have a PO in his third or fourth year at which time he can opt our or re-negotiate.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

"I love being a Raptor, I would love to spend my entire career here," VanVleet told Adam Laskaris of the Daily Hive. "We have a great relationship with the city, the franchise, ownership, management. It's a match made in heaven for me. I love being a Toronto Raptor and hopefully we can continue that on." - June 2022.

FVV & Siakam contract patterns entering last year have many similarities.

fred would've come back if houston never made that offer.
at the end of the day, money talks, bull walks.

[ItsDanger]

^^The end years are the hang up I suspect. 4th and especially the 5th.

how much of that matters tho? i expect he will have a PO in his third or fourth year at which time he can opt our or re-negotiate.

Or opt in, if his performance has dropped off.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

^^The end years are the hang up I suspect. 4th and especially the 5th.

how much of that matters tho? i expect he will have a PO in his third or fourth year at which time he can opt our or re-negotiate.

Or opt in, if his performance has dropped off.

this could very well be it; masai might be saying that they can give him a 4 year max but if he wants the fifth year, he'll have to accept less than the max.

[ItsDanger]

how much of that matters tho? i expect he will have a PO in his third or fourth year at which time he can opt our or re-negotiate.

Or opt in, if his performance has dropped off.

this could very well be it; masai might be saying that they can give him a 4 year max but if he wants the fifth year, he'll have to accept less than the max.

At that point, difference signing with another team is small, so he could get a 4 year deal with Sixers, as example, and Raps end up with nothing. That would be a collosal failure in asset management.

[Scase]

^^The end years are the hang up I suspect. 4th and especially the 5th.

how much of that matters tho? i expect he will have a PO in his third or fourth year at which time he can opt our or re-negotiate.

Because a 34/35 year old Siakam making 55-60mil a year is bradley beal level stupid.

[Appostis]

You have to look at it this way, if this was a KD or Kawhi or Giannis or Tatum or any of the main top 20 players in the nba in their final year, we would be getting really good offers for them. The issue really is here that we treated Siakam like a max player and gave him the reigns. The league is not stupid, they know he should be paid around 35 Mil, and dont want to be stuck with a 5 year max contract for a non max player. This is why we are getting crappy offers. So all the blame is on Masai who has become a terrible talent evaluator. He propped him like a major star and now its coming to bite him

But he is a max player *shrug* not a super max but he certainly is a max level player.

If Pascal was agreeable to resign at the max for any team that he could be traded you would see 5-6 teams ready to do it.. teams don't want to trade for a one year rental with no contract control.

Not sure how some people find this so difficult to understand...

its a two way street too though. one reason pascal's agent could be putting the rumors of not re-signing with his new team is that the teams themselves are not ready to commit to a max salary for him.

You know what, believe whatever you want.

The only way Pascal is not getting a max deal is if he chooses to take a discount. Not holding my breath

With the Raptors, it's the number of years which I assume is the bigger sticking point so far, not the $$$.

This whole thread is a massive face palm.

[slicedbread2]

You have to look at it this way, if this was a KD or Kawhi or Giannis or Tatum or any of the main top 20 players in the nba in their final year, we would be getting really good offers for them. The issue really is here that we treated Siakam like a max player and gave him the reigns. The league is not stupid, they know he should be paid around 35 Mil, and dont want to be stuck with a 5 year max contract for a non max player. This is why we are getting crappy offers. So all the blame is on Masai who has become a terrible talent evaluator. He propped him like a major star and now its coming to bite him

To add insult to injury any team that trades for him can only offer a 2 year extension. This is a new rule that was recently implemented in the new CBA to deter James Harden type of situations from happening. No team that has a GM with a functioning brain cell will give up much because of this (OKC, Indiana come to mind).

What Masai has done is the equivalent of holding onto an asset for far too long to the point that the net realizable value is in the negative and he'll have to either give up Siakam for pennies on the dollar, let him walk in FA or massively overpay him. It didn't help that he made the gaffe before the season calling out the selfishness on the roster and some of it being directed at Pascal didn't help matters.

[Chalky_White]

Captain Phillips is an outright pirate. The issue with guys like him and Fred is they’ve poisoned their minds about being paid. You got to realize guys like him coming from Cameron this is a one in a billion opportunity. He grew up not thinking American dream, so every dollar he gets counts.

How many ridiculous tropes can one fit in a post?

[Son Goku 25]

Hopefully they learned from Fvv, Siakam will def get a team or more who will overpay him or just about the amount he's looking for.

This isn't a Fvv situation even if you somehow say we saved money and got a cheap replacement, this is basically our best player in his prime who can walk for nothing. I dont think the FO wants that on their head.

I'm sure we can point to both sides but the thing is, I don't see Siakam staying at this point I'd be shocked so I'm hoping for our teams sake that we actually get some value for him. If he leaves for nothing I have a hard time being ok with getting Claxton as a replacement just cuz we have capspace. One or both Bobby and Masai need to go if he leaves for nothing but I doubt that'll happen.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Masai called him selfish last year and stopped talking to him. Then doubled down on the selfish comments at the beginning of the year. That's a strange business strategy, and it's resulted in Siakam playing for free agency. He's being honest with his intentions. I don't even know what kind of hard time he's giving the Raptors. He's done everything Darko asked.