NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread)

[Wolfgang630]

Embiid will always be the Most Valuable Philadelphian in our hearts

[AleksandarN]

Anyone else excited for the match up tonight?

[RB34]

Embiids situation kinda reminds me of Kyrie from his Brooklyn days when he was only playing at home or whatever.

Stats were insane because he had that much more rest than everyone else.

Lol Kyrie never came to close to this type of dominance we are seeing from Embiid. Embiid in 9 road games this season has averaged 36ppg 11rpg 6.5apg. So he actually plays better on the road.

Embiid (even with him being injured recently) is the best player in the world currently averaging 35 12 and 6 with the highest PER in nba history at 34.3 if he cooks Jokic again this season he will have gotten the best of Jokic, Sengun, Gobert and KAT who are 4 of the top 10 big men in this league.

I didn’t compare the players but go off.

[Wolfgang630]

Anyone else excited for the match up tonight?

Not really. There’s too much negative discourse all over the media with these two.

[Dirk]

Anyone else excited for the match up tonight?

Not really. There’s too much negative discourse all over the media with these two.

Are you talking about Cubies and Hussein?

[Cubbies2120]

Holy smokes, Embiid truly is the GOAT front runner. It explains why when things get difficult, he shrinks. 71 points on the season when up 25+…dude is getting injured playing garbage minutes while stat padding.

Wrong embiid’s 1st ankle roll happened in the 1st quarter vs the bulls. His 2nd injury happen in the 1st half vs the knicks. Oh and he didn’t play in 9 4th quarters this season.

"He didn't play in 9 4th quarters this season"
- Probably because by the time the 3rd quarter rolls around he's usually played 30-32 minutes already. It's a product of Nurse's rotations (as Sixers fans have pointed out in MVP thread 2):

- Full first quarter
- Half 2nd quarter
- Full 3rd quarter

Phrased another way, "In 9 games, he played 3 or 4 minutes less than his season average" - Guess that doesn't sound AS impressive, even though this is also the truth.

[LordCovington33]

To know how many points somebody has scored when up by 25 points tells me somebody has too much time on their hands.

[Mrakar]

Anyone else excited for the match up tonight?

Reed vs Nnaji is what this league needs!

[Wolfgang630]

Anyone else excited for the match up tonight?

Not really. There’s too much negative discourse all over the media with these two.

Are you talking about Cubies and Hussein?

Funny you say this then one of them post one minute after your post.

[nikster]

Just going to leave this tweet here. (Yes I know he didn't play in 9 4th quarters) lol

Read on Twitter

Stupid stat considering Embiid scores way more points than Jokic. He’s almost averaging 10ppg more than Jokic at the moment. And for you to just completely ignore the fact that Embiid didn’t play the 4th quarter in 9 of the 28 games he’s played this season is just ridiculous. This means he sits a 4th quarter 1 out of every 3 games he plays……..1/3!

Not to mention Jokic has scored 1021pts in his 40 games played this season. Embiid in 12 less games has 976pts this season. So in 12 EXTRA games Jokic only has 45 more points than Embiid this season. 12 EXTRA games!

Lol your season totals just proved while your per game argument doesn't matter in this context. The points up 25+ was a totals stat. Jokic has scored more points than Embiid...which should translate to more garbage time points if all things were equal. Embiid is blowing him out in garbage time buckets

[nikster]

Say everything you want, but you don't actually have a response to what I said. The truth is, no, the Celtics have not dealt with an ounce of the **** the Sixers have dealt with.

Porzingis is a walking injury, worse than Embiid, nobody buys him being healthy, might be able to say the same about Embiid, one is performing like a top 30 player when he plays, the other plays like the best player in the world.

Oh yes, Brown and Tatum are so young. Funny, that doesnt' seem to be what i hear every time there is a Celtics collapse on your board. More like Tatum is a fraud and people can't believe that Brown got that contract.

Yeh Tatum never suffered adversity.

2017-18 (his rookie season) Go over win total and go further in playoffs than pre season predictions

- Gordon Hayward injured first game of the year.
- Kyrie injured a month prior to the playoff.
- Rookie Tatum beats Giannis' Bucks, Embiid Sixers, take Lebron Cavs to game 7
- Highest playoff mins for Celtics were Tatum, Brown (missed a game v Sixers), Horford, Rozier, Smart, Aaron Baynes, Marcus Morris, Semi Ojeleye, Shane Larkin, Abdul Nader.

2018 - 19

- Hayward comes back a shell of himself
- Kyrie turns into a weirdo in the playoffs vs the Bucks and shoots 25/83 for 30% FG the last 4 games. Lose to Bucks in 5.

2019 - 20 - Bubble Season Go further in playoffs than pre season predictions

- Lose Kyrie, lose Horford
- Hayward injured game 1, round 1 vs Philly (Boston still sweeps LOL)
- Daniel Theis, Brad Wanamaker, Semi Ojeleye playing major mins
- Lose in game 7 of Conference finals vs Heat. Tatum only 22 years old, Brown 23.

2020 - 21 -

- Brown injured before the playoffs and doesn't play. Matchup with Nets trio of KD, Harden, Kyrie in round 1.
- Tristan Thompson, Evan Fournier and the corpse of Kemba Walker are his other starters.
- Tatum avoids a sweep. Drops 50 in game 3, 40 in game 4.

2021 - 22 Go over win total and go further in playoffs than pre season predictions

- Stevens steps down, Ime takes over
- Start the season 22w - 22l - Calls for Tatum and Brown to be traded,
- Down 3-2 to Bucks, Tatum drops 46 in Milwaukee.
- Rob Williams, Al Horford, Derrick White, Marcus Smart ALL miss time in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
- Tatum injures wrist in finals

2022 - 23 First season they're favoured to win it all

- Ime scandal to start the season. Joe takes over.
- Rob injured again
- Sixers up 3-2. Sixers have the lead at home and then Tatum ices them. Then drops a game 7 record 51 on ya boys head.
- Down 0 - 3. Brings it back to game 7 and then gets injured on the very first play of the game.

But sure, he's never dealt with adversity because we don't cry about it like Embiid/Sixer fans. One guy gets the job done, the other doesn't.

All Embiids above average playoff performances have come against froncourts like Daniel Gafford / Davis Bertans, Khem Birch / Chris Boucher and Nic Claxton / DFS.

One guy steps up in the biggest moments, the other goes and hides in a hole.

All of this pales in comparison to what the Sixers have had to go through since the start of "The Process". Hell, right before that they dealt with the Bynum fiasco, and prior to that Elton Brand was given the max and was a shell of his former all star self. Regardless of if the Sixers win a chip or not, there will probably be a 30 for 30 documentary about the dark cloud that hung over that franchise, much of which was out of the Sixers control, and a lot which was their own doing. The level of incompetency, pure bad luck, and randomness is basically unprecedented in NBA history.

I will say though that Tatum has shown up more, than not during the playoffs. His more recent playoffs though, he goes through big ruts, but again comes up big during the most important poinst (like against the sixers in the 4th quarter of game 6, and then the explosion in game 7).

Just full of excuses. If Tatum played like playoff Embiid he wouldn't have made the finals, wouldn't have beat the 76ers last year, would have been swept in '21, probably not even beat the Raptors in 2020. Your MVP probably could have replicated rookie Tatums playoff run.

Every player deals with adversity. Embiid has just failed to step up

[Cubbies2120]

To know how many points somebody has scored when up by 25 points tells me somebody has too much time on their hands.

Your post tells me you have no idea how to perform simple database queries, because this is not a difficult piece of information to get to.

Also the irony of someone who posts 50% more per day (based on user join date) telling someone else they have too much time on their hands is not lost on me Luckily, I'm "on the clock" if you will, and when you're good at your job you have extra free time

[LordCovington33]

To know how many points somebody has scored when up by 25 points tells me somebody has too much time on their hands.

Your post tells me you have no idea how to perform simple database queries, because this is not a difficult piece of information to get to.

Also the irony of someone who posts 50% more per day (based on user join date) telling someone else they have too much time on their hands is not lost on me Luckily, I'm "on the clock" if you will, and when you're good at your job you have extra free time

Where is this link to the stats and how does it compare to others?

[Cubbies2120]

Yeh Tatum never suffered adversity.

2017-18 (his rookie season) Go over win total and go further in playoffs than pre season predictions

- Gordon Hayward injured first game of the year.
- Kyrie injured a month prior to the playoff.
- Rookie Tatum beats Giannis' Bucks, Embiid Sixers, take Lebron Cavs to game 7
- Highest playoff mins for Celtics were Tatum, Brown (missed a game v Sixers), Horford, Rozier, Smart, Aaron Baynes, Marcus Morris, Semi Ojeleye, Shane Larkin, Abdul Nader.

2018 - 19

- Hayward comes back a shell of himself
- Kyrie turns into a weirdo in the playoffs vs the Bucks and shoots 25/83 for 30% FG the last 4 games. Lose to Bucks in 5.

2019 - 20 - Bubble Season Go further in playoffs than pre season predictions

- Lose Kyrie, lose Horford
- Hayward injured game 1, round 1 vs Philly (Boston still sweeps LOL)
- Daniel Theis, Brad Wanamaker, Semi Ojeleye playing major mins
- Lose in game 7 of Conference finals vs Heat. Tatum only 22 years old, Brown 23.

2020 - 21 -

- Brown injured before the playoffs and doesn't play. Matchup with Nets trio of KD, Harden, Kyrie in round 1.
- Tristan Thompson, Evan Fournier and the corpse of Kemba Walker are his other starters.
- Tatum avoids a sweep. Drops 50 in game 3, 40 in game 4.

2021 - 22 Go over win total and go further in playoffs than pre season predictions

- Stevens steps down, Ime takes over
- Start the season 22w - 22l - Calls for Tatum and Brown to be traded,
- Down 3-2 to Bucks, Tatum drops 46 in Milwaukee.
- Rob Williams, Al Horford, Derrick White, Marcus Smart ALL miss time in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
- Tatum injures wrist in finals

2022 - 23 First season they're favoured to win it all

- Ime scandal to start the season. Joe takes over.
- Rob injured again
- Sixers up 3-2. Sixers have the lead at home and then Tatum ices them. Then drops a game 7 record 51 on ya boys head.
- Down 0 - 3. Brings it back to game 7 and then gets injured on the very first play of the game.

But sure, he's never dealt with adversity because we don't cry about it like Embiid/Sixer fans. One guy gets the job done, the other doesn't.

All Embiids above average playoff performances have come against froncourts like Daniel Gafford / Davis Bertans, Khem Birch / Chris Boucher and Nic Claxton / DFS.

One guy steps up in the biggest moments, the other goes and hides in a hole.

All of this pales in comparison to what the Sixers have had to go through since the start of "The Process". Hell, right before that they dealt with the Bynum fiasco, and prior to that Elton Brand was given the max and was a shell of his former all star self. Regardless of if the Sixers win a chip or not, there will probably be a 30 for 30 documentary about the dark cloud that hung over that franchise, much of which was out of the Sixers control, and a lot which was their own doing. The level of incompetency, pure bad luck, and randomness is basically unprecedented in NBA history.

I will say though that Tatum has shown up more, than not during the playoffs. His more recent playoffs though, he goes through big ruts, but again comes up big during the most important poinst (like against the sixers in the 4th quarter of game 6, and then the explosion in game 7).

Every player deals with adversity. Embiid has just failed to step up

THIS RIGHT HERE ^^^^

Embiid must carry ZERO weight with the front office if he couldn't sway them to prevent them from choosing "TOBIAS HARRIS OVER ME (Butler)"...like, ZERO sway.

That tells me he needs to leave Philly if he's the franchise player and gets zero input. His relationship with the front office must be garbage...because any other elite player like that has SOME level of control.

So, Sixers fans...

Option 1: Does Embiid have 0 input because of a non-existent FO relationship?
Or
Option 2: Does he have input (like most all-time greats) to influence FO decisions?

If it's Option 1, he should likely leave Philly because Harris over Butler (who led his teams to the Finals TWICE since) was egregious.

If it's Option 2, I don't know what to say. I guess some players just aren't great judges of fit & talent.

[Hussien Fatal]

Holy smokes, Embiid truly is the GOAT front runner. It explains why when things get difficult, he shrinks. 71 points on the season when up 25+…dude is getting injured playing garbage minutes while stat padding.

Wrong embiid’s 1st ankle roll happened in the 1st quarter vs the bulls. His 2nd injury happen in the 1st half vs the knicks. Oh and he didn’t play in 9 4th quarters this season.

"He didn't play in 9 4th quarters this season"
- Probably because by the time the 3rd quarter rolls around he's usually played 30-32 minutes already. It's a product of Nurse's rotations (as Sixers fans have pointed out in MVP thread 2):

- Full first quarter
- Half 2nd quarter
- Full 3rd quarter

Phrased another way, "In 9 games, he played 3 or 4 minutes less than his season average" - Guess that doesn't sound AS impressive, even though this is also the truth.

Are you trying to explain Embiid’s rotation to me considering I already know it? Thanks for informing me on nothing. He averages 34mpg so the already played 30 minutes argument is weak.

[Hussien Fatal]

Just going to leave this tweet here. (Yes I know he didn't play in 9 4th quarters) lol

Read on Twitter

Stupid stat considering Embiid scores way more points than Jokic. He’s almost averaging 10ppg more than Jokic at the moment. And for you to just completely ignore the fact that Embiid didn’t play the 4th quarter in 9 of the 28 games he’s played this season is just ridiculous. This means he sits a 4th quarter 1 out of every 3 games he plays……..1/3!

Not to mention Jokic has scored 1021pts in his 40 games played this season. Embiid in 12 less games has 976pts this season. So in 12 EXTRA games Jokic only has 45 more points than Embiid this season. 12 EXTRA games!

Lol your season totals just proved while your per game argument doesn't matter in this context. The points up 25+ was a totals stat. Jokic has scored more points than Embiid...which should translate to more garbage time points if all things were equal. Embiid is blowing him out in garbage time buckets

Lol so what? Do you just expect him not to play in the 3rd quarter as well? The fact he’s blowing these teams out by the 3rd quarter is more impressive than not.

[eyeatoma]

Yeh Tatum never suffered adversity.

2017-18 (his rookie season) Go over win total and go further in playoffs than pre season predictions

- Gordon Hayward injured first game of the year.
- Kyrie injured a month prior to the playoff.
- Rookie Tatum beats Giannis' Bucks, Embiid Sixers, take Lebron Cavs to game 7
- Highest playoff mins for Celtics were Tatum, Brown (missed a game v Sixers), Horford, Rozier, Smart, Aaron Baynes, Marcus Morris, Semi Ojeleye, Shane Larkin, Abdul Nader.

2018 - 19

- Hayward comes back a shell of himself
- Kyrie turns into a weirdo in the playoffs vs the Bucks and shoots 25/83 for 30% FG the last 4 games. Lose to Bucks in 5.

2019 - 20 - Bubble Season Go further in playoffs than pre season predictions

- Lose Kyrie, lose Horford
- Hayward injured game 1, round 1 vs Philly (Boston still sweeps LOL)
- Daniel Theis, Brad Wanamaker, Semi Ojeleye playing major mins
- Lose in game 7 of Conference finals vs Heat. Tatum only 22 years old, Brown 23.

2020 - 21 -

- Brown injured before the playoffs and doesn't play. Matchup with Nets trio of KD, Harden, Kyrie in round 1.
- Tristan Thompson, Evan Fournier and the corpse of Kemba Walker are his other starters.
- Tatum avoids a sweep. Drops 50 in game 3, 40 in game 4.

2021 - 22 Go over win total and go further in playoffs than pre season predictions

- Stevens steps down, Ime takes over
- Start the season 22w - 22l - Calls for Tatum and Brown to be traded,
- Down 3-2 to Bucks, Tatum drops 46 in Milwaukee.
- Rob Williams, Al Horford, Derrick White, Marcus Smart ALL miss time in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
- Tatum injures wrist in finals

2022 - 23 First season they're favoured to win it all

- Ime scandal to start the season. Joe takes over.
- Rob injured again
- Sixers up 3-2. Sixers have the lead at home and then Tatum ices them. Then drops a game 7 record 51 on ya boys head.
- Down 0 - 3. Brings it back to game 7 and then gets injured on the very first play of the game.

But sure, he's never dealt with adversity because we don't cry about it like Embiid/Sixer fans. One guy gets the job done, the other doesn't.

All Embiids above average playoff performances have come against froncourts like Daniel Gafford / Davis Bertans, Khem Birch / Chris Boucher and Nic Claxton / DFS.

One guy steps up in the biggest moments, the other goes and hides in a hole.

All of this pales in comparison to what the Sixers have had to go through since the start of "The Process". Hell, right before that they dealt with the Bynum fiasco, and prior to that Elton Brand was given the max and was a shell of his former all star self. Regardless of if the Sixers win a chip or not, there will probably be a 30 for 30 documentary about the dark cloud that hung over that franchise, much of which was out of the Sixers control, and a lot which was their own doing. The level of incompetency, pure bad luck, and randomness is basically unprecedented in NBA history.

I will say though that Tatum has shown up more, than not during the playoffs. His more recent playoffs though, he goes through big ruts, but again comes up big during the most important poinst (like against the sixers in the 4th quarter of game 6, and then the explosion in game 7).

Just full of excuses. If Tatum played like playoff Embiid he wouldn't have made the finals, wouldn't have beat the 76ers last year, would have been swept in '21, probably not even beat the Raptors in 2020. Your MVP probably could have replicated rookie Tatums playoff run.

Every player deals with adversity. Embiid has just failed to step up

Right I forgot he's supposed to step up with multiple broken faces, and torn knees. Lol ya'll like to just gloss over the most relevant ****. Call him out when he's 100% healthy, and I know no one is. But call him out when he doesn't have a major injury. Until then, people talking about playoff record need to realise there is a massive asterisk on the majority of his post season runs because of injuries that are far worse than anyone has ever listed on these threads. He might always be a what if, but to say stuff like he's failed to step up, when he is debilitated with injuries is so weak.

[Hussien Fatal]

Embiids situation kinda reminds me of Kyrie from his Brooklyn days when he was only playing at home or whatever.

Stats were insane because he had that much more rest than everyone else.

Lol Kyrie never came to close to this type of dominance we are seeing from Embiid. Embiid in 9 road games this season has averaged 36ppg 11rpg 6.5apg. So he actually plays better on the road.

Embiid (even with him being injured recently) is the best player in the world currently averaging 35 12 and 6 with the highest PER in nba history at 34.3 if he cooks Jokic again this season he will have gotten the best of Jokic, Sengun, Gobert and KAT who are 4 of the top 10 big men in this league.

Not sure your guy having played 9 away games a few days off the halfway mark of the season is the argument you want to go to for MVP. Most Valuable Periodic-traveller?

Just stop it. He has many arguments for winning mvp this season. I never once said him playing 9 games on the road is the barometer. How about him having 16 straight 30 and 10 games. Or 17 straight 30pt games. Or him scoring more points than minutes played by a wide margin. Or him having the highest single season PER. Or him leading the league in scoring for the 3rd straight season. Or him averaging a career high 6apg while scoring 35ppg along with grabbing 12rpg. Or him having one of the greatest regular seasons of the modern era. Or him having a record of 22-6 in games played this season. Or him absolutely crushing the first straw poll. Idk you pick buddy.

[eyeatoma]

Lol Kyrie never came to close to this type of dominance we are seeing from Embiid. Embiid in 9 road games this season has averaged 36ppg 11rpg 6.5apg. So he actually plays better on the road.

Embiid (even with him being injured recently) is the best player in the world currently averaging 35 12 and 6 with the highest PER in nba history at 34.3 if he cooks Jokic again this season he will have gotten the best of Jokic, Sengun, Gobert and KAT who are 4 of the top 10 big men in this league.

Not sure your guy having played 9 away games a few days off the halfway mark of the season is the argument you want to go to for MVP. Most Valuable Periodic-traveller?

Just stop it. He has many arguments for winning mvp this season. I never once said him playing 9 games on the road is the barometer. How about him having 16 straight 30 and 10 games. Or 17 straight 30pt games. Or him scoring more points than minutes played by a wide margin. Or him having the highest single season PER. Or him leading the league in scoring for the 3rd straight season. Or him averaging a career high 6apg while scoring 35ppg along with grabbing 12rpg. Or him having one of the greatest regular seasons of the modern era. Or him having a record of 22-6 in games played this season. Or him absolutely crushing the first straw poll. Idk you pick buddy.

Go off!

[LordCovington33]

I am curious to know where that “71” comes from and why certain people think “up by 25 points” is garbage time. Garbage time is when there is no chance that a team can come back. There have been times when the sixers have led by more than 25 points early in the second quarter. That is not garbage time!! A team can come back from there. 25 points up midway through the third quarter is garbage time.
pbpstats gives their definition of garbage time, and it has nothing to do with 25 points up. I only mention them because the “71 point” stat for Embiid is mentioned here, but that is for the 2020-21 season, in which he was 168th in points scored during garbage time.
https://www.pbpstats.com/totals/nba/player?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&Leverage=Low