NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread)

[Edrees]

Same as Jokic from what I've seen, both have 1 win away, it would be a non story if Embiid would stop skipping the altitude almost every year.

Does Embiid also miss Jazz games? The altitude is almost the same

Philly - 39 ft
Salt Lake City - 4265 ft
Denver - 5280 ft

Yes, he does. I posted an analysis of this yesterday.

5 of 20 possible games in Denver/Utah have been played by Embiid.

In 3 of them he fouled out, in a 4th he had 5 fouls. Averaged about 5 turnovers a game at high elevation, and around 40% shooting, including a 31, 35 and 38% game.

Touche then, good info to know. I'm actually sensitive to altitude myself and both cities feel about equal to me unless I have 2-3 days to acclimate, so I can actually understand this.

[Cubbies2120]

Does Embiid also miss Jazz games? The altitude is almost the same

Philly - 39 ft
Salt Lake City - 4265 ft
Denver - 5280 ft

Yes, he does. I posted an analysis of this yesterday.

5 of 20 possible games in Denver/Utah have been played by Embiid.

In 3 of them he fouled out, in a 4th he had 5 fouls. Averaged about 5 turnovers a game at high elevation, and around 40% shooting, including a 31, 35 and 38% game.

Touche then, good info to know. I'm actually sensitive to altitude myself and both cities feel about equal to me unless I have 2-3 days to acclimate, so I can actually understand this.

And it would be 100% acceptable for him to come out and say "I am not in condition to play at elevation, and would prefer to avoid those games unless they're necessary (Finals) to preserve my long term health".

There is nothing wrong with acknowledging this. It's the mental gymnastics some fans expect us to jump through to say "It's just coincidence that he's missing those games".

Let's see...he missed 15 of 20 possible games there (SOME ARE LEGITIMATE INJURIES), and the 5 he played he played WAY WAY underneath his potential / averages...

Let's call a spade a spade here guys. That's all.

[Edrees]

Yes, he does. I posted an analysis of this yesterday.

5 of 20 possible games in Denver/Utah have been played by Embiid.

In 3 of them he fouled out, in a 4th he had 5 fouls. Averaged about 5 turnovers a game at high elevation, and around 40% shooting, including a 31, 35 and 38% game.

Touche then, good info to know. I'm actually sensitive to altitude myself and both cities feel about equal to me unless I have 2-3 days to acclimate, so I can actually understand this.

And it would be 100% acceptable for him to come out and say "I am not in condition to play at elevation, and would prefer to avoid those games unless they're necessary (Finals) to preserve my long term health".

There is nothing wrong with acknowledging this. It's the mental gymnastics some fans expect us to jump through to say "It's just coincidence that he's missing those games".

Let's see...he missed 15 of 20 possible games there (SOME ARE LEGITIMATE INJURIES), and the 5 he played he played WAY WAY underneath his potential / averages...

Let's call a spade a spade here guys. That's all.

I completely agree with you on this. High sensitivity/slow acclimation to elevation isn't even about conditioning or something you can train for, its just genetic/how you are born, not that different from being born short or something like that, so if he stated this, fans should have nothing to fault him for.

[Cubbies2120]

Touche then, good info to know. I'm actually sensitive to altitude myself and both cities feel about equal to me unless I have 2-3 days to acclimate, so I can actually understand this.

And it would be 100% acceptable for him to come out and say "I am not in condition to play at elevation, and would prefer to avoid those games unless they're necessary (Finals) to preserve my long term health".

There is nothing wrong with acknowledging this. It's the mental gymnastics some fans expect us to jump through to say "It's just coincidence that he's missing those games".

Let's see...he missed 15 of 20 possible games there (SOME ARE LEGITIMATE INJURIES), and the 5 he played he played WAY WAY underneath his potential / averages...

Let's call a spade a spade here guys. That's all.

I completely agree with you on this. High sensitivity/slow acclimation to elevation isn't even about conditioning or something you can train for, its just genetic/how you are born, not that different from being born short or something like that, so if he stated this, fans should have nothing to fault him for.

Yep...win win situation.

Win #1: You avoid putting yourself at risk
Win #2: You avoid these sub-par games
Win #3: You can't be criticized - it's a medical condition outside your control

[eyeatoma]

That is not it and you know it. I actually respect your dedication to one player.
Me personally, I am far from an Embiid hater like others here. I think his skillset is crazy for his height and I also think the Sixers can go further than in years before.

It may not be exactly what I said, but when Hussein and I aren't on here, they talk about everyone else, and the only stuff they say about Embiid is trash. Literally, and you know that too man.

Apart from a few people, without us, this would be the anti-Embiid thread, hell you know the GB is that too.

[HotRocks34]

Current odds (FanDuel):

Jokic.....+170
SGA.......+280
Luka......+550
Giannis..+600
Embiid...+800

It'll be interesting to see how the Sixers intend to defend Jokic tonight.

Last year in Philly Jokic schooled Embiid so much in the first half that Philly had PJ Tucker guard him in the second half instead.

That adjustment was likely the difference in the game.

Tucker is no longer a Sixer, so we'll see what the plan is for tonight.

[Cubbies2120]

Last year in Philly Jokic schooled Embiid so much in the first half that Philly had PJ Tucker guard him in the second half instead.

There was schooling happening on both ends...Jokic and Embiid were scoring at will on each other.

The difference was Doc switched Tucker onto Jokic and said "Just be physical". Malone did not give Jokic the easy out by putting in Jordan to say "Just be physical"...so Jokic had to work on both ends of the court.

Let's see if they both guard each other all night this time, we'll be in for a treat.

[Wolfgang630]

They’ll use Batum or Reed on Jokic

[QPR]

Reed would seem the obvious match-up.

[HotRocks34]

Last year in Philly Jokic schooled Embiid so much in the first half that Philly had PJ Tucker guard him in the second half instead.

There was schooling happening on both ends...Jokic and Embiid were scoring at will on each other.

The difference was Doc switched Tucker onto Jokic and said "Just be physical". Malone did not give Jokic the easy out by putting in Jordan to say "Just be physical"...so Jokic had to work on both ends of the court.

Let's see if they both guard each other all night this time, we'll be in for a treat.

Embiid's points in the first half were irrelevant as Philly was down 15 at the break and Jokic was about a +18.

Tucker won them that game. Without that change, it's a Denver blowout victory.

Jokic was 6-7 FGA in the first half and fully in a groove. Tucker altered that completely.

[HotRocks34]

Last year in Philly Jokic schooled Embiid so much in the first half that Philly had PJ Tucker guard him in the second half instead.

There was schooling happening on both ends...Jokic and Embiid were scoring at will on each other.

Denver was content to let Embiid get his because they were winning. That's a strategy.

Philly wanted to stop Jokic, they simply could not. Their strategy was not to be down 15 at the break.

Tucker changed it all.

Article on how Tucker won Philly that game:

https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-joel-embiid-doc-rivers-reveal-true-x-factor-in-stopping-nikola-jokic-nuggets

[Cubbies2120]

Last year in Philly Jokic schooled Embiid so much in the first half that Philly had PJ Tucker guard him in the second half instead.

There was schooling happening on both ends...Jokic and Embiid were scoring at will on each other.

Doc came out and said Jokic is the best player in the world. Considering he actually coached Embiid, I can imagine he has a much better idea of who the better player is and no doubt he’d have loved to coach Nikola. The fact that he said that pretty much the first minute he left the 76ers role is pretty telling.


Denver was content to let Embiid get his because they were winning. That's a strategy.

Philly wanted to stop Jokic, they simply could not. Their strategy was not to be down 15 at the break.

Tucker changed it all.

Article on how Tucker won Philly that game:

https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-joel-embiid-doc-rivers-reveal-true-x-factor-in-stopping-nikola-jokic-nuggets

[Bum Adebayo]

Last year in Philly Jokic schooled Embiid so much in the first half that Philly had PJ Tucker guard him in the second half instead.

There was schooling happening on both ends...Jokic and Embiid were scoring at will on each other.

Denver was content to let Embiid get his because they were winning. That's a strategy.

Philly wanted to stop Jokic, they simply could not. Their strategy was not to be down 15 at the break.

Tucker changed it all.

Article on how Tucker won Philly that game:

https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-joel-embiid-doc-rivers-reveal-true-x-factor-in-stopping-nikola-jokic-nuggets

Sure whatever helps you sleep at night.
On the other hand, when in the previous season Nuggets won in Sixers court, and the main difference was the HUGE difference in bench scoring, many people said Jokic destroyed Embiid. So yeah, people will have their narrative set in stone regardless.

[Cubbies2120]

There was schooling happening on both ends...Jokic and Embiid were scoring at will on each other.

Denver was content to let Embiid get his because they were winning. That's a strategy.

Philly wanted to stop Jokic, they simply could not. Their strategy was not to be down 15 at the break.

Tucker changed it all.

Article on how Tucker won Philly that game:

https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-joel-embiid-doc-rivers-reveal-true-x-factor-in-stopping-nikola-jokic-nuggets

Sure whatever helps you sleep at night.
On the other hand, when in the previous season Nuggets won in Sixers court, and the main difference was the HUGE difference in bench scoring, many people said Jokic destroyed Embiid. So yeah, people will have their narrative set in stone regardless.

More stats and less feelings, bud. When you say huge difference in bench stats, provide them. Don't put the onus on the reader to research it.

[Bum Adebayo]

And I'm one of the most critic Sixers fans about Embiid, but stupid narratives need to end, people trying to make it look like Embiid had nothing to do with Sixers winning last year against Nuggets is just stupid, of course other players contributed too, it's a team sport after all.

[HotRocks34]

There was schooling happening on both ends...Jokic and Embiid were scoring at will on each other.

Denver was content to let Embiid get his because they were winning. That's a strategy.

Philly wanted to stop Jokic, they simply could not. Their strategy was not to be down 15 at the break.

Tucker changed it all.

Article on how Tucker won Philly that game:

https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-joel-embiid-doc-rivers-reveal-true-x-factor-in-stopping-nikola-jokic-nuggets

Sure whatever helps you sleep at night.
On the other hand, when in the previous season Nuggets won in Sixers court, and the main difference was the HUGE difference in bench scoring, many people said Jokic destroyed Embiid. So yeah, people will have their narrative set in stone regardless.

Truth hurts.

Denver was waxing Philly and they were fine with Embiid dominating the ball. They were up big.

Without the Tucker move Denver probably wins by 25 and Embiid's points mean nothing.

Because of Tucker, we got the fake "Embiid did so great" spin when the truth was Tucker saved Embiid.

Last year Embiid got a lot of gifts. The Tucker gift was just one.

But things got straightened out in the postseason.

[Cubbies2120]

Denver was content to let Embiid get his because they were winning. That's a strategy.

Philly wanted to stop Jokic, they simply could not. Their strategy was not to be down 15 at the break.

Tucker changed it all.

Article on how Tucker won Philly that game:

https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-joel-embiid-doc-rivers-reveal-true-x-factor-in-stopping-nikola-jokic-nuggets

Sure whatever helps you sleep at night.
On the other hand, when in the previous season Nuggets won in Sixers court, and the main difference was the HUGE difference in bench scoring, many people said Jokic destroyed Embiid. So yeah, people will have their narrative set in stone regardless.

Truth hurts.

Denver was waxing Philly and they were fine with Embiid dominating the ball. They were up big.

Without the Tucker move Denver probably wins by 25 and Embiid's points mean nothing.

Because of Tucker, we got the fake "Embiid did so great" spin when the truth was Tucker saved Embiid.

Last year Embiid got a lot of gifts. The Tucker gift was just one.

But things got straightened out in the postseason.

Fax on fax

[GrandTheftRondo]

Say everything you want, but you don't actually have a response to what I said. The truth is, no, the Celtics have not dealt with an ounce of the **** the Sixers have dealt with.

Porzingis is a walking injury, worse than Embiid, nobody buys him being healthy, might be able to say the same about Embiid, one is performing like a top 30 player when he plays, the other plays like the best player in the world.

Oh yes, Brown and Tatum are so young. Funny, that doesnt' seem to be what i hear every time there is a Celtics collapse on your board. More like Tatum is a fraud and people can't believe that Brown got that contract.

AussieCeltic summed it up perfectly.

You’re either trolling or are just completely clueless if you think everything’s been smooth sailing for Tatum and co.

Boston has dealt with plenty of adversity since Tatum came aboard.

Difference is they’ve weathered the storm and made the finals and multiple ECFs in the era the Sixers have been meant to dominate.

You can try trolling all Tatum and Brown you want but rarely if ever do star players win chips by the time they’re 25.

Plenty of them for them to win. Meanwhile Joel Embiid is about to turn 30. Clocks ticking…..

He's going to be 30, and?

Most players play well into their mid to late 30s, and are atleast 90% of their prime.

You’re sitting here trying to troll about Tatum and the Celtics for not winning a chip by now despite the fact Tatum is just 25 years old.

Meanwhile your star player is about to hit 30 and hasn’t made it past the second round.

[GrandTheftRondo]

Say everything you want, but you don't actually have a response to what I said. The truth is, no, the Celtics have not dealt with an ounce of the **** the Sixers have dealt with.

Porzingis is a walking injury, worse than Embiid, nobody buys him being healthy, might be able to say the same about Embiid, one is performing like a top 30 player when he plays, the other plays like the best player in the world.

Oh yes, Brown and Tatum are so young. Funny, that doesnt' seem to be what i hear every time there is a Celtics collapse on your board. More like Tatum is a fraud and people can't believe that Brown got that contract.

Yeh Tatum never suffered adversity.

2017-18 (his rookie season) Go over win total and go further in playoffs than pre season predictions

- Gordon Hayward injured first game of the year.
- Kyrie injured a month prior to the playoff.
- Rookie Tatum beats Giannis' Bucks, Embiid Sixers, take Lebron Cavs to game 7
- Highest playoff mins for Celtics were Tatum, Brown (missed a game v Sixers), Horford, Rozier, Smart, Aaron Baynes, Marcus Morris, Semi Ojeleye, Shane Larkin, Abdul Nader.

2018 - 19

- Hayward comes back a shell of himself
- Kyrie turns into a weirdo in the playoffs vs the Bucks and shoots 25/83 for 30% FG the last 4 games. Lose to Bucks in 5.

2019 - 20 - Bubble Season Go further in playoffs than pre season predictions

- Lose Kyrie, lose Horford
- Hayward injured game 1, round 1 vs Philly (Boston still sweeps LOL)
- Daniel Theis, Brad Wanamaker, Semi Ojeleye playing major mins
- Lose in game 7 of Conference finals vs Heat. Tatum only 22 years old, Brown 23.

2020 - 21 -

- Brown injured before the playoffs and doesn't play. Matchup with Nets trio of KD, Harden, Kyrie in round 1.
- Tristan Thompson, Evan Fournier and the corpse of Kemba Walker are his other starters.
- Tatum avoids a sweep. Drops 50 in game 3, 40 in game 4.

2021 - 22 Go over win total and go further in playoffs than pre season predictions

- Stevens steps down, Ime takes over
- Start the season 22w - 22l - Calls for Tatum and Brown to be traded,
- Down 3-2 to Bucks, Tatum drops 46 in Milwaukee.
- Rob Williams, Al Horford, Derrick White, Marcus Smart ALL miss time in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
- Tatum injures wrist in finals

2022 - 23 First season they're favoured to win it all

- Ime scandal to start the season. Joe takes over.
- Rob injured again
- Sixers up 3-2. Sixers have the lead at home and then Tatum ices them. Then drops a game 7 record 51 on ya boys head.
- Down 0 - 3. Brings it back to game 7 and then gets injured on the very first play of the game.

But sure, he's never dealt with adversity because we don't cry about it like Embiid/Sixer fans. One guy gets the job done, the other doesn't.

All Embiids above average playoff performances have come against froncourts like Daniel Gafford / Davis Bertans, Khem Birch / Chris Boucher and Nic Claxton / DFS.

One guy steps up in the biggest moments, the other goes and hides in a hole.

All of this pales in comparison to what the Sixers have had to go through since the start of "The Process". Hell, right before that they dealt with the Bynum fiasco, and prior to that Elton Brand was given the max and was a shell of his former all star self. Regardless of if the Sixers win a chip or not, there will probably be a 30 for 30 documentary about the dark cloud that hung over that franchise, much of which was out of the Sixers control, and a lot which was their own doing. The level of incompetency, pure bad luck, and randomness is basically unprecedented in NBA history.

I will say though that Tatum has shown up more, than not during the playoffs. His more recent playoffs though, he goes through big ruts, but again comes up big during the most important poinst (like against the sixers in the 4th quarter of game 6, and then the explosion in game 7).

You implied that Boston has dealt with nothing.

You were proven wrong and still want to cry about the poor old Sixers.

Losing your three big acquisitions in the span of three seasons pales in comparisons to the Sixers issues? Really?

I would have thought Hayward snapping his leg a minute into his first season with us and never looking the same is a pretty big deal. Likewise Kyrie and Horford walking out the door. We probably beat Miami in 2020 with Horford.

Maybe if you quit moaning about poor Embiid and the Sixers all the time you’d realise that other teams have their own problems too.

You sit here all the time crying about the poor Sixers injuries in the playoffs and then take a shot at Boston for the finals loss. One of our most important players that season Rob Williams never recovered from a late season knee injury and was a shell the entire playoffs. But I forgot that only matters if it’s poor old Joel.

Up until this season things have been far from smooth sailing from Boston. Plenty of adversity. To pretend otherwise is ridiculous.

[AussieCeltic]

AussieCeltic summed it up perfectly.

You’re either trolling or are just completely clueless if you think everything’s been smooth sailing for Tatum and co.

Boston has dealt with plenty of adversity since Tatum came aboard.

Difference is they’ve weathered the storm and made the finals and multiple ECFs in the era the Sixers have been meant to dominate.

You can try trolling all Tatum and Brown you want but rarely if ever do star players win chips by the time they’re 25.

Plenty of them for them to win. Meanwhile Joel Embiid is about to turn 30. Clocks ticking…..

He's going to be 30, and?

Most players play well into their mid to late 30s, and are atleast 90% of their prime.

You’re sitting here trying to troll about Tatum and the Celtics for not winning a chip by now despite the fact Tatum is just 25 years old.

Meanwhile your star player is about to hit 30 and hasn’t made it past the second round.

The fact he can’t see the hypocrisy in his arguments is quite amusing. Any negative thing he says about Tatum or the Celtics makes Embiid/Sixers look way worse.