Woj: Raptors trade Pascal Siakam to Pacers for Bruce Brown, Jordan Nwora, Kira Lewis and 3 first round picks

[WentzerWuver]

This is BS. He is shooting 52% this season which is 2nd highest in his career (highest was the championship season at 54%).

You obviously know the difference between FG% and 'shooting.' Siakam is shooting 75% at the rim this year but 32% from 3 and 38% from 16ft-3pt line.

I think 'lack of shooting' is the wrong wording here, he can obviously shoot from distance but it's more like he's a medium-low shooter for a max-type player. But I also think he's not bad enough that he'll mess too much with the Pacers flow, even if a better shooter with his same skillset would obviously be more ideal.

I think posters are getting a bit carried away pointing out Pascal's shooting as a negative, as one should look at where Pascal is shooting his 3's and the system that he's in. Historically, Pascal is a 37% shooter from 3 in the corners and this season, he's shooting corner 3's at a 48% clip - which is better than Smith and Turner by a decent margin. What brings his 3pt% down is at the top and in transition. However, I feel he's in a system where he has to do too much and carry too much responsibility on offense - in Indy, he won't have to. Having Turner and Pascal on either side will really stretch the floor and with Pascal's skillset and passing ability, I think they can take the Indy offense up another notch.

Agreed which is why Raptors will not take on Brown Jr for Siakam cause if they did wanted him that paid, they could have offered more than the Pacers for Brown Jr when he was a FA during the off season after they lost Van Fleet.

Pacers trying to take advantage of the Raptors Lol

[MessiahUjiri]

I been really enjoying jalen smith starting at the 4. So I'm somewhat on the fence about this move. His shooting this year has been a lot better, he is a hussle machine, and Siakam hasn't been shooting it like he did in the past.

You don't seem to have watched any Siakam if you're thinking Smith is a better shooter than Siakam.

Siakam is guarded WAY closer than Smith, who is a non-thought on the floor.

Siakam is >50% FG for the year. If you remove his horrendous November (when the Raps formally switched pecking orders between him and Scottie), he is at >40% 3pt for the year.

I am pretty sure that boomershadow is talking specifically about 3-point shooting. Even if Siakam is above 40% this year if you remove his worst month, Smith is currently shooting 46.8% from 3. That is a pretty amazing number. Smith is definitely having an amazing year, shooting-wise.

You think there's a little bit of a difference in how teams defend Siakam vs Smith?

Also, Smith only attempts 2 3FGA a game.




Not taking away the great improvement that JSmith made, but "gravity of attracting defenses" matters a lot. You both are smart enough to know better than to make such claims.

[docholliday99]

These FRP's for Indy, I kinda see it similar to OKC, as Indy's roster is young, has a lot of depth and are on the cusp of contending - to me in makes sense that now would be the time to use them and add a player like Pascal, who's already won it all and knows what it takes (besides Brown no one else on Indy has his experience and if Brown is traded, he takes it with him). I get the flight risk part but does anyone really think Pascal would leave a team that could give him that 5th year AND be on a roster that's still young enough where they could conceivably contend for the term of that contract? Not to mention, they'd retain all their future FRP's to add when they do start aging out.
Indy or OKC would be silly not to, though I do understand they don't want to outbid themselves.

[WentzerWuver]

These FRP's for Indy, I kinda see it similar to OKC, as Indy's roster is young, has a lot of depth and are on the cusp of contending - to me in makes sense that now would be the time to use them and add a player like Pascal, who's already won it all and knows what it takes (besides Brown no one else on Indy has his experience and if Brown is traded, he takes it with him). I get the flight risk part but does anyone really think Pascal would leave a team that could give him that 5th year AND be on a roster that's still young enough where they could conceivably contend for the term of that contract? Not to mention, they'd retain all their future FRP's to add when they do start aging out.
Indy or OKC would be silly not to, though I do understand they don't want to outbid themselves.

Unlike OG, Siakam love it up here where he can say Eh like a true Canadian. So if we don't get the trades that we want, we just resigned him while the Pacers can regret not trading Walker or Mathurin for our best defender who been knocking down 3s on the wing at a 48% clip.

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[gpoon]

The issue Indiana faces is that it's Indiana. They overpaid for Brown just to get him there, no one is going to look at them as a free agent destination, so their best best is to do a major trade like this and pray the guy stays.

My guess is one of the picks is this year's OKC pick which will probably land in the 20s, and then protections for the other two. It's not a bad deal if we're being honest. If they keep the 18th pick, which is where they are now, they can restock and add another young piece.

Also Toronto is probably going to tank here real soon, I believe their pick they owe to the Spurs is like top 6 or 7 protected. It's in their best interest to tank.

They wont tank, they will be a play in team and probably not make it into the playoffs. Draft sucks this year better off giving it up to the spurs this year to get it off the books rather than convey for future years.

They’re not a playin team today and they might be trading their leading scorer for a draft picks and a role player.

Pascal is a great player, but his touches can easily be distributed between RJ, Quick, and Scottie. If Raps can get a solid role player defender in return for pascal (like Bruce) they will be just as good as they are now.

[TheShow2021]

Doesn't it seem like he wants to be a 76er?

Should Indy really pay him a 5 year max? A guy who will be on the decline soon, and grossly overpaid the 2nd half of his contract as he approaches 35.

Because that is what it's going to take to keep him away from the 76ers.

So either you get a one year rental, or an overpaid player, and you lose 3 1st rounders in the process. No thanks!

[HoopsterJones]

Siakam flat out not giving any verbal commitment to re-sign with a team that is looking to acquire him through a trade really limits his value on the trade market.

[Quattro]

Siakam flat out not giving any verbal commitment to re-sign with a team that is looking to acquire him through a trade really limits his value on the trade market.

Yep. What I've thought they should do from the start is to sign him to an extension and then trade him next season. What's the rush? I can't imagine any team out there is going to pay full price for a guy who is basically telling them he's going to walk in free agency

[phanman]

The Bruce Brown rumor is just strange because its no longer an area of need for us and we aren't in position to really take advantage of a win-now piece. I get that it's either him or Hield to match salaries but one of the reasons to trade for Pascal is to help shore up the defense along with giving them a reliable go-to scorer for Hali to feed off. Losing Brown gives them one less switchable defender and although his 3pt% has declined this year, like Pascal he is currently on shooting a red hot 60% in January albeit on 1.7 attempts.

Maybe the strategy for the us is different with this Pascal trade looking for draft equity but its always been about player prospects for Masai & Bobby. I don't see any deal getting done with out the inclusion of one of their guards in Mathurin, TJ or Nemhard AND one of their bigs in Smith, Jackson or Walker. I didn't even realize that Smith was shooting that well from deep and he'd be the perfect compliment to our team giving us the floor spacing that we miss from Poeltl.

The Pacers do have the theoretical option of waiting until free agency to try and just outright sign him but tell me why exactly would Pascal choose them when he a better choice in Philly to reunite with both Nurse and Rico but also with Cameroonian brother in Embiid.

[Bornstellar]

Seems like a losing prospect for Indy honestly. Siakam doesn't put them over the top and what Masai wants for him is unreasonable especially considering it could end up being a half year rental.

Honestly hope he just leaves Toronto in the offseason and they end up with nothing. Masai is the most overrated GM in the NBA

[Effigy]

They need to do this deal like the NFL does. Make the deal 1 first and 2 2nds but if Siakam plays 1 game in 2025 for the Pacers, then one of those 2nds becomes a first and if he plays 1 game for them in 2027, then the other one does also. Something like that.

[djsunyc]

One thing that is so interesting about the NBA (because the teams are so small and fragile with only 8 or 9 guys playing) is how adding a player that ends up being the first, second, or third option doesn’t always work out.

The Pacers are top or second best offense in the league.

I look forward to seeing how this works out (if it happens).

If I’m the Pacers, I’m very cautious about adding Siakam.

there's also regular season offense and post season offense. not enough scoring diversity for the pacers when it becomes a half court game.

[Nuntius]

They could have offered that kind of money to AR with a poison pill offer to piss off the Lakers. Even Kuzma when he was a UFA to play for a contender over a rebuilding team.

Sure, we could have targeted a different FA but we preferred Bruce Brown. His skillset (good perimeter defender, great off-ball player who has a track record of producing next to elite passers and good enough secondary ball-handler) fit our team much better than any other players that were on the market.

Then WHY you think the Raptors would want him over either Walker who they barely used being a contender who cant waste time on a rookie and may end up like Wiseman? Brown Jr could help the Pacers greatly in the playoffs like he has help the Nuggets.

Toronto wants YOUNG players otherwise they just keep Siakam but some of these Pacers homer fans want to hold onto all their young players.

NYK gave us IQ for OG which they love but Pacers want to give us an overpaid role player for a player twice as good as OG.

NYK gave you IQ because he is also an expiring contract that would have to get paid.

Mathurin and Walker, on the other hand, are going to be on rookie deals for quite a while. Mathurin is a 2-year player (who had an excellent rookie season) and Walker is a rookie. They are also both much younger than IQ. IQ is 24, Mathurin is 21 and Walker is 20. Oh, and both Mathurin and Walker were top 10 picks in the two previous drafts.

Teams tend to hold on to players who are early on their rookie deals. They do that both because they spend a pick on those players and because they are cost-controlled.

I do understand that Toronto wants young players. The young players that the Pacers can add to this deal are Obi Toppin and Jalen Smith (Toppin is 1 year older than IQ, Smith is 1 year younger). And, of course, the picks. If that's not enough for Toronto, so be it.

Indiana has a specific price limit that they can spend on a player that could leave in FA. Going above that limit isn't wise. If that means that we don't get Siakam then we don't get Siakam. It's that simple.

[PushDaRock]

I been really enjoying jalen smith starting at the 4. So I'm somewhat on the fence about this move. His shooting this year has been a lot better, he is a hussle machine, and Siakam hasn't been shooting it like he did in the past.

You don't seem to have watched any Siakam if you're thinking Smith is a better shooter than Siakam.

Siakam is guarded WAY closer than Smith, who is a non-thought on the floor.

Siakam is >50% FG for the year. If you remove his horrendous November (when the Raps formally switched pecking orders between him and Scottie), he is at >40% 3pt for the year.

I am pretty sure that boomershadow is talking specifically about 3-point shooting. Even if Siakam is above 40% this year if you remove his worst month, Smith is currently shooting 46.8% from 3. That is a pretty amazing number. Smith is definitely having an amazing year, shooting-wise.

Do you really expect Smith to sustain 47% the entire year? He's taken 62 threes total so far the entire year, he's going to need to put in a lot more volume to prove the 3 point shooting is legit considering his career averages.

[Nuntius]

You don't seem to have watched any Siakam if you're thinking Smith is a better shooter than Siakam.

Siakam is guarded WAY closer than Smith, who is a non-thought on the floor.

Siakam is >50% FG for the year. If you remove his horrendous November (when the Raps formally switched pecking orders between him and Scottie), he is at >40% 3pt for the year.

I am pretty sure that boomershadow is talking specifically about 3-point shooting. Even if Siakam is above 40% this year if you remove his worst month, Smith is currently shooting 46.8% from 3. That is a pretty amazing number. Smith is definitely having an amazing year, shooting-wise.

You think there's a little bit of a difference in how teams defend Siakam vs Smith?

Absolutely.

Also, Smith only attempts 2 3FGA a game.




Not taking away the great improvement that JSmith made, but "gravity of attracting defenses" matters a lot. You both are smart enough to know better than to make such claims.

I don't disagree with anything you said but I still do not believe that it is crazy to consider Smith a better 3-point shooter (and just that, 3-point shooter) than Siakam.

[Johnny Bball]

These FRP's for Indy, I kinda see it similar to OKC, as Indy's roster is young, has a lot of depth and are on the cusp of contending - to me in makes sense that now would be the time to use them and add a player like Pascal, who's already won it all and knows what it takes (besides Brown no one else on Indy has his experience and if Brown is traded, he takes it with him). I get the flight risk part but does anyone really think Pascal would leave a team that could give him that 5th year AND be on a roster that's still young enough where they could conceivably contend for the term of that contract? Not to mention, they'd retain all their future FRP's to add when they do start aging out.
Indy or OKC would be silly not to, though I do understand they don't want to outbid themselves.

Unlike OG, Siakam love it up here where he can say Eh like a true Canadian. So if we don't get the trades that we want, we just resigned him while the Pacers can regret not trading Walker or Mathurin for our best defender who been knocking down 3s on the wing at a 48% clip.

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Yawn. He's taking the 5 year max from any team that trades for him and he knows it.

[Wargreymon]

Oh man if that tweet is true, then I don't think any front office will trade for him. I'm assuming OG has a wink wink deal to re up with the Knicks. Siakam gonna screw Masai on the way out it seems. I guess I don't blame him since Masai did put him on blast to start the year by calling him selfish

[metafisical]

Seems like a losing prospect for Indy honestly. Siakam doesn't put them over the top and what Masai wants for him is unreasonable especially considering it could end up being a half year rental.

Honestly hope he just leaves Toronto in the offseason and they end up with nothing. Masai is the most overrated GM in the NBA

Which is what happened for FVV. Thought he would re-sign but didn't. All the "we can re-sign him and then trade him later" narrative doesn't work if the player doesn't re-sign. And it's the same fear for Siakim.

I prefer pennies on the dollar than nothing on the dollar.

[PushDaRock]

Seems like a losing prospect for Indy honestly. Siakam doesn't put them over the top and what Masai wants for him is unreasonable especially considering it could end up being a half year rental.

Honestly hope he just leaves Toronto in the offseason and they end up with nothing. Masai is the most overrated GM in the NBA

Which is what happened for FVV. Thought he would re-sign but didn't. All the "we can re-sign him and then trade him later" narrative doesn't work if the player doesn't re-sign. And it's the same fear for Siakim.

I prefer pennies on the dollar than nothing on the dollar.

Both sides intended on him re-signing. Things only changed when Houston decided to pay him 40m a year which the Raptors weren't going to match and he couldn't turn down.

[Oscirus]

sounds more like siakim wants to enjoy the free agency life and is trying to dissuade teams from trying to trade for him. He's going to **** around and cost himself that fifth year if he keeps it up