Siakam vs Bosh

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Better Raptor?

Chris Bosh
22
71%
Pascal Siakam
9
29%
 
Total votes: 31

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Siakam vs Bosh 

Post#1 » by parsnips33 » Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:57 am

Who was the better Raptor?
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Re: Siakam vs Bosh 

Post#2 » by XTC » Thu Jan 18, 2024 2:12 am

Bosh while he was a great individual talent his time as a Raptor is kind of forgotten, by the NBA and Raptor fans. The team had absolutely no team success. He didn't even mention Toronto in his hall of fame induction. The only time he really gave Toronto love was when we won the NBA championship. His time in Toronto ended with him amassing 10,000 points, 5 allstar teams, 1 all NBA team, and 0 playoff series wins.

Siakam was a true underdog story. He was drafted as a junk yard type player, but ended up being one of the most skilled players in thr NBA. It was amazing to watch his growth year by year. He was the second option to Kawhi when we won the NBA championship (the only duo to score more points in a single playoff run where LeBron and Wade). He ended his Raptor career with almost 9,000 career points, 2 allstar games, 2 all NBA teams, and 1 championship.

As a Raptor fan Siakam will always be held to a higher regard than Bosh(I hold Lowry, Vince, Demar, Kawhi, and Pascal higher than Bosh as a Raptor). The man didn't want to leave, he wanted to stay, but he just didn't fit our timeline anymore. He's a great individual talent, and every single Raptor fan will be rooting for him.
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Re: Siakam vs Bosh 

Post#3 » by AEnigma » Thu Jan 18, 2024 2:39 am

Bosh
7 seasons with Toronto (drafted at age 19); one third-team all-NBA appearance, five all-star appearances, two playoff appearances.
As a Raptor, Bosh played 37 minutes per game (11th in the league among players with at least 400 games played over that span) and 18,815 minutes total (8th in the league over that span).
Bosh’s averages as a Raptor per 75 possessions were 21.1/9.4/2.3 on +3.4 league relative efficiency. His PBPstats on/off with the Raptors was +5.

Siakam
7.5 seasons with Toronto (drafted at age 22); two all-NBA appearances (one second-team and one third-team), two all-star appearances, three playoff appearances as a starter.
In 5.5 seasons as a starter, Pascal has played 35.4 minutes per game (5th in the league in that span) and 13248 minutes total (also 5th in the league — no overlap among the top four).
Siakam’s career averages per 75 possessions are 20.7/7.2/4.2 on league average efficiency. His PBPstats career on/off is +4, although it jumps up to +5 if you remove his rookie season.

My general stance is that Siakam was close to definitively surpassing Bosh as a Raptor, but I think those first two bench seasons ultimately hold him back unless you heavily emphasise the title and other off-court advantages. Which Raptors fans would be right to do (XTC’s descriptions ring as emotionally true to me), but those considerations carry less weight in any colder analysis of what Bosh and Siakam were each adding to their respective teams. I also think I would prefer Siakam if he were my team’s second-best player (good job, Pacers), but that similarly might not be what is meant by the question of who was a better Raptor.

I have an easier time arguing for Siakam’s peak, but there too it is pretty close, with both capping out as borderline top ten players.
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Re: Siakam vs Bosh 

Post#4 » by Dr Positivity » Fri Jan 19, 2024 3:27 am

I like Bosh's skillset as bit more than Siakam's, Siakam is a better playmaker while Bosh is elite midrange shooter (would definitely be taking 3s in modern era) and iso-ing/getting to the FT line, I think I'd rather have latter, in part cause it's easier to fit. Siakam got traded cause he doesn't make that much sense with guys like Barnes/Barrett or with low spacing C like Poeltl, whereas Bosh can play with almost everyone. Siakam's D peaked higher in Toronto than Bosh's but Bosh could have played better D if he wasn't carrying the offense as seen by his Miami years. Obviously though Siakam is more important historically to Raptors.

AEnigma wrote:My general stance is that Siakam was close to definitively surpassing Bosh as a Raptor, but I think those first two bench seasons ultimately hold him back unless you heavily emphasise the title and other off-court advantages. Which Raptors fans would be right to do (XTC’s descriptions ring as emotionally true to me), but those considerations carry less weight in any colder analysis of what Bosh and Siakam were each adding to their respective teams. I also think I would prefer Siakam if he were my team’s second-best player (good job, Pacers), but that similarly might not be what is meant by the question of who was a better Raptor.


Bosh was all-star level for 5 seasons in Toronto which is the same amount of time as Siakam 19-23 (even discounting 24) so I don't think it's really that big of a difference. I don't know if Bosh 16ppg on bad team in his sophmore season is that much more meaningful than Siakam being a key bench piece on #1 seed in the East.
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Re: Siakam vs Bosh 

Post#5 » by Colbinii » Fri Jan 19, 2024 3:32 am

I think both players have questions about scaling their skill-sets to teams with more talent and both really aren't good #1 options.

Good comparison, but at the moment I come away with really liking what Bosh was able to do with his--albeit limited--skill-set with Miami and the Heatles where he would have made an excellent 2nd-in-command but was forced into being third behind Wade.
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Re: Siakam vs Bosh 

Post#6 » by AEnigma » Fri Jan 19, 2024 3:55 am

Dr Positivity wrote:
AEnigma wrote:My general stance is that Siakam was close to definitively surpassing Bosh as a Raptor, but I think those first two bench seasons ultimately hold him back unless you heavily emphasise the title and other off-court advantages. Which Raptors fans would be right to do (XTC’s descriptions ring as emotionally true to me), but those considerations carry less weight in any colder analysis of what Bosh and Siakam were each adding to their respective teams. I also think I would prefer Siakam if he were my team’s second-best player (good job, Pacers), but that similarly might not be what is meant by the question of who was a better Raptor.

Bosh was all-star level for 5 seasons in Toronto which is the same amount of time as Siakam 19-23 (even discounting 24) so I don't think it's really that big of a difference. I don't know if Bosh 16ppg on bad team in his sophmore season is that much more meaningful than Siakam being a key bench piece on #1 seed in the East.

It is not a big difference but it is pretty undeniable that Bosh settled into the NBA a lot more quickly. I think there could be some discussion on whether that would have been the case fifteen years later, but that hypothetical is not too pertinent.

Your commentary on Bosh improving as a defender is interesting because I think Siakam is about to “improve” next to Haliburton — and then maybe that will retroactively increase appreciation of what he was doing on frequently awkward rosters.
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Re: Siakam vs Bosh 

Post#7 » by eminence » Fri Jan 19, 2024 4:06 am

I'd go with Bosh narrowly over Siakam for 3rd best Raptor (Lowry/Carter top two).
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Re: Siakam vs Bosh 

Post#8 » by sp6r=underrated » Fri Jan 19, 2024 5:01 am

XTC wrote:Bosh while he was a great individual talent his time as a Raptor is kind of forgotten, by the NBA and Raptor fans. The team had absolutely no team success. He didn't even mention Toronto in his hall of fame induction. The only time he really gave Toronto love was when we won the NBA championship. His time in Toronto ended with him amassing 10,000 points, 5 allstar teams, 1 all NBA team, and 0 playoff series wins.

Siakam was a true underdog story. He was drafted as a junk yard type player, but ended up being one of the most skilled players in thr NBA. It was amazing to watch his growth year by year. He was the second option to Kawhi when we won the NBA championship (the only duo to score more points in a single playoff run where LeBron and Wade). He ended his Raptor career with almost 9,000 career points, 2 allstar games, 2 all NBA teams, and 1 championship.

As a Raptor fan Siakam will always be held to a higher regard than Bosh(I hold Lowry, Vince, Demar, Kawhi, and Pascal higher than Bosh as a Raptor). The man didn't want to leave, he wanted to stay, but he just didn't fit our timeline anymore. He's a great individual talent, and every single Raptor fan will be rooting for him.


This is a really good post. When your evaluating a players career with a team it is partly about how fans and the franchise feels about em.

Bosh wasn't a bad guy at all in Toronto. He conducted himself great as far as I can tell. But those were very forgettable teams he played on. Not because they were bad. They were forgettable.
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Re: Siakam vs Bosh 

Post#9 » by HeartBreakKid » Fri Jan 19, 2024 7:18 am

eminence wrote:I'd go with Bosh narrowly over Siakam for 3rd best Raptor (Lowry/Carter top two).

I think a rental of Kawhi is probably more impactful to the Raptor's franchise than what Bosh did.'

In the grand scheme of things Bosh was just a volume scorer on a bad team. Every franchise has guys like that throughout the years and they're pretty forgettable. Bosh just sticks out a bit more on Toronto because they haven't been around a long time.

Kawhi is getting his jersey retired in Toronto. Not so sure about Chris.
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Re: Siakam vs Bosh 

Post#10 » by tsherkin » Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:50 am

I go with Bosh over Siakam.
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Re: Siakam vs Bosh 

Post#11 » by SportsGuru08 » Sat Jan 20, 2024 2:29 am

Hard to say. While Siakam does have a ring, it came as the 2nd option. Both Bosh and Siakam were better suited for No. 2 roles than No. 1. Suppose Toronto Bosh had a Kawhi Leonard equivalent as a teammate; do they win it all with Bosh as a No. 2?
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Re: Siakam vs Bosh 

Post#12 » by Colbinii » Sat Jan 20, 2024 2:40 am

SportsGuru08 wrote:Hard to say. While Siakam does have a ring, it came as the 2nd option. Both Bosh and Siakam were better suited for No. 2 roles than No. 1. Suppose Toronto Bosh had a Kawhi Leonard equivalent as a teammate; do they win it all with Bosh as a No. 2?


Yeah, that Raptors team was loaded.

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