Miami Heat 2023/2024 Regular Season - Thread 3.0

[MorbidHEAT]

https://allucanheat.com/posts/miami-heat-make-duncan-robinson-untouchable-in-trade-talks

If true, it would be a hell of a change in philosophy. It could mean the writing is on the wall for a Herro trade.

if it was up to me I would not trade him either....

Something is working with those Bam/love or Bam/Jovic and Duncan line ups.


I am damn high on the future of Bam/Jovic/JJJ/Duncan and somebody at the 1.

People that are stat heads and can find the production of different line-ups...I would love to see what the stats tell us about Bam/love/Duncan and Bam/Jovic/Duncan as far as production goes.

Duncan for all his flaws comes to work hard. Maybe Miami is banking on him being significantly cheaper down the road on his next deal. They got him paid maybe next time the deal is super team friendly.

Just curious but what would make you think Duncan would take a super team friendly deal? He will try to get top dollar like all players should. Remember this is a business not a family. Ironically assuming he continues to play well I expect his next deal to be very similar to his current one at +/- 18 mil a year. Remember the cap is going up and thats not even factoring the new TV deal on the horizon.

I don’t want to speak for him but I think he was saying that Duncan may not command as much as he did for his next contract. He has stunk it up for all but this year so far In the contract he is currently playing on. I would bet that he would get less per year. How much less? I don’t know.

[VaDe255]

What makes Herro far better than RJ? Not even arguing I’m just legit curious. Their play isn’t too far off and RJ looks to be the better playoff performer. Then physical tools/potential wise RJ is bigger at 6’6 215 with a 6’10 wingspan (Herro 6’5 195 6’3 wingspan) and is more athletic. I feel like if you gave Spo RJ he would be viewed a lot different.

I agree with you on Quickley. Would you have traded Herro for OG straight up if the Raptors offered it? Like I said I just think the different viewpoints from fans and organizations is interesting

RJ is more athletic and is an allround fine player, who doesn't excell at anything. He has a career TS% of 52.2% (Herro is at 55.6%) and his playmaking isn't good either 2.8 asts on 2.1 tos for his career and it isn't improving. He's not particular effective and there is potential for him to to get better, but he's already paid as a starter and he is barely a starter level player.
In the playoff series last year, they dared him to shoot undefended 3s.

Herro has a skill that he is elite at and that is his three-point shooting, that alone and his efficiency as a scorer and playmaker that is about NBA average, just makes him better than RJ and I'm not just looking at a stretch of 20 games.

I don't think an OG trade gets the Heat anywhere, the problem is you already lack good shot creation and OG isn't helping with that one. Also needs to get paid, presumably in the 40m range.

If you knew the follow up move was getting Rozier or Murray to fill a bigger position of need and bring similar (Murray) or better (Rozier) levels of scoring than Herro would your answer change?

Murray/Rozier
Duncan
Jimmy
OG
Bam

That’s what I assumed you and most Heat fans would say but was just curious, because Knicks had no problem trading imo a much better package than just Herro alone for him and Knicks fans seemed to be happy as well. Just think it’s interesting to see the different views

How are you paying these guys? This is some deep 2nd apron stuff.
Sure, I'd like them to make trades and this teams chances to win are better, than what they currently have, but this seems far away from a thing they would do.

I'm still hoping they decide to trade Lowry + picks vs DJM and go allin on the Jimmy window, pay the tax, but doubt that is happening either. That I think is the best player they could get right now and it maybe has a small chance to happen.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

The Herro Twitter discourse today is ugly, looks like fans are fed up

[3ammy3uck3ts]

RJ is more athletic and is an allround fine player, who doesn't excell at anything. He has a career TS% of 52.2% (Herro is at 55.6%) and his playmaking isn't good either 2.8 asts on 2.1 tos for his career and it isn't improving. He's not particular effective and there is potential for him to to get better, but he's already paid as a starter and he is barely a starter level player.
In the playoff series last year, they dared him to shoot undefended 3s.

Herro has a skill that he is elite at and that is his three-point shooting, that alone and his efficiency as a scorer and playmaker that is about NBA average, just makes him better than RJ and I'm not just looking at a stretch of 20 games.

I don't think an OG trade gets the Heat anywhere, the problem is you already lack good shot creation and OG isn't helping with that one. Also needs to get paid, presumably in the 40m range.

If you knew the follow up move was getting Rozier or Murray to fill a bigger position of need and bring similar (Murray) or better (Rozier) levels of scoring than Herro would your answer change?

Murray/Rozier
Duncan
Jimmy
OG
Bam

That’s what I assumed you and most Heat fans would say but was just curious, because Knicks had no problem trading imo a much better package than just Herro alone for him and Knicks fans seemed to be happy as well. Just think it’s interesting to see the different views

How are you paying these guys? This is some deep 2nd apron stuff.
Sure, I'd like them to make trades and this teams chances to win are better, than what they currently have, but this seems far away from a thing they would do.

I'm still hoping they decide to trade Lowry + picks vs DJM and go allin on the Jimmy window, pay the tax, but doubt that is happening either. That I think is the best player they could get right now and it maybe has a small chance to happen.

True, Micky isn’t paying that tax bill. Yea I agree, I’m hoping for Rozier or DJM for sure

[dshearn]

if it was up to me I would not trade him either....

Something is working with those Bam/love or Bam/Jovic and Duncan line ups.


I am damn high on the future of Bam/Jovic/JJJ/Duncan and somebody at the 1.

People that are stat heads and can find the production of different line-ups...I would love to see what the stats tell us about Bam/love/Duncan and Bam/Jovic/Duncan as far as production goes.

Duncan for all his flaws comes to work hard. Maybe Miami is banking on him being significantly cheaper down the road on his next deal. They got him paid maybe next time the deal is super team friendly.

Just curious but what would make you think Duncan would take a super team friendly deal? He will try to get top dollar like all players should. Remember this is a business not a family. Ironically assuming he continues to play well I expect his next deal to be very similar to his current one at +/- 18 mil a year. Remember the cap is going up and thats not even factoring the new TV deal on the horizon.

I don’t want to speak for him but I think he was saying that Duncan may not command as much as he did for his next contract. He has stunk it up for all but this year so far In the contract he is currently playing on. I would bet that he would get less per year. How much less? I don’t know.

Pretty much that....

I don't suspect that Duncan has been viewed the last few years as a 20m a year guy.....I could be way wrong....maybe this new Duncan we are seeing commands more money or..well...the same money....but I would suspect he would be cheaper down the road.

[carnageta]

Read on Twitter

Would have went to game 7. Wade, even at that point, was capable of winning at least 1 finals game by himself. Especially with Dragic out, Dwyane would have had some vintage moments for sure in that series against his old pal, Lebron.


Rondo was the difference maker in game 6 for the Lakers. Wade would have been the difference maker for us in game 4.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Interesting:

12-5 when Duncan starts, 12-12 when he doesn’t.

12-5 when Highsmith starts, 12-12 when he doesn’t

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

Would have went to game 7. Wade, even at that point, was capable of winning at least 1 finals game by himself. Especially with Dragic out, Dwyane would have had some vintage moments for sure in that series against his old pal, Lebron.


Rondo was the difference maker in game 6 for the Lakers. Wade would have been the difference maker for us in game 4.

Wade going out with a championship would’ve been unreal

[MettaWorldPanda]

Interesting:

12-5 when Duncan starts, 12-12 when he doesn’t.

12-5 when Highsmith starts, 12-12 when he doesn’t

I still don’t trust these numbers or those two players. I want legit sustainable upgrades. Highsmith looks so damn awkward offensively.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Bruce Brown btw is looking great for the Raps. They probably end up keeping him at least till next year. There core ain’t that bad

[MettaWorldPanda]

The Herro Twitter discourse today is ugly, looks like fans are fed up

Herro is only 23 while Duncan is 29 and not nearly as talented as what Herro can offer at the two spot. I just think Herro has way too much on his plate right now. How about we focus on getting him some real help in the backcourt so he can focus on the things he does really well. Herro is not the problem. Both Herro and Bam stand to benefit the most having a legit PG.

[Wiltside]

Could care less about Heat Twitter discourse tbh

[MettaWorldPanda]

Same heat twitter that thought Justise better than Devin Booker are the same ones saying Duncan start and Herro to bench lol. Duncan has that same heat twitter click wrapped around his finger. I’d still rather have Max Strus over Duncan.

[Wiltside]

I’m definitely in on a Rozier/PJW combo trade though. I don’t wanna sacrifice my boy, so I’m hoping we could do it for salary relief, 2 picks and a swap.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Points I’ve been seeing today are pretty valid, its not a Herro vs so and so thing it’s just that he’s not anything special, which is true.

If you’re having to constantly make excuses for the guys play every single year chances are he’s just not anything special.

Herro needs a better running mate at guard to be better and to improve the team? Why doesn’t Duncan need that and why are we far better when he starts over Herro?

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I’m definitely in on a Rozier/PJW combo trade though. I don’t wanna sacrifice my boy, so I’m hoping we could do it for salary relief, 2 picks and a swap.

2 picks and it’s done for sure

[MettaWorldPanda]

Points I’ve been seeing today are pretty valid, its not a Herro vs so and so thing it’s just that he’s not anything special, which is true.

If you’re having to constantly make excuses for the guys play every single year chances are he’s just not anything special.

Herro needs a better running mate at guard to be better and to improve the team? Why doesn’t Duncan need that and why are we far better when he starts over Herro?

Duncan doesn’t have anywhere near the responsibility that Herro has. It’s the coaching staffs fault and yes Herro does have limitations. He’s still a really talented two guard. Maybe with a better PG they’ll take those responsibilities away and just allow him to roam behind the line and hit open 3’s like Duncan. He’ll have easier time taking his man off the dribble as well. Herro imo can be just fine playing a JJ Reddick type of role. Team has been trying to force the PG position down his throat. They wouldn’t dare do that chit with Duncan.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Points I’ve been seeing today are pretty valid, its not a Herro vs so and so thing it’s just that he’s not anything special, which is true.

If you’re having to constantly make excuses for the guys play every single year chances are he’s just not anything special.

Herro needs a better running mate at guard to be better and to improve the team? Why doesn’t Duncan need that and why are we far better when he starts over Herro?

Duncan doesn’t have anywhere near the responsibility that Herro has. It’s the coaching staffs fault and yes Herro does have limitations. He’s still a really talented two guard. Maybe with a better PG they’ll take those responsibilities away and just allow him to roam behind the line and hit open 3’s like Duncan. He’ll have easier time taking his man off the dribble as well. Herro imo can be just fine playing a JJ Reddick type of role. Team has been trying to force the PG position down his throat. They wouldn’t dare do that chit with Duncan.

I hope you’re right and he gets better, I’d love to be proven wrong on him but I don’t view it as responsibility I just view it as that’s Herros preference to play that way.

I mean you swap Duncan in for Herro and our offensive numbers are far better and our team success is far better so what responsibilities are there when Herro plays as opposed to when he doesn’t that make us a worse team? It just doesn’t add up to me. We play better as a team when he’s out and the ball moves better, that doesn’t have anything to do with responsibility in my eyes.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Points I’ve been seeing today are pretty valid, its not a Herro vs so and so thing it’s just that he’s not anything special, which is true.

If you’re having to constantly make excuses for the guys play every single year chances are he’s just not anything special.

Herro needs a better running mate at guard to be better and to improve the team? Why doesn’t Duncan need that and why are we far better when he starts over Herro?

Duncan doesn’t have anywhere near the responsibility that Herro has. It’s the coaching staffs fault and yes Herro does have limitations. He’s still a really talented two guard. Maybe with a better PG they’ll take those responsibilities away and just allow him to roam behind the line and hit open 3’s like Duncan. He’ll have easier time taking his man off the dribble as well. Herro imo can be just fine playing a JJ Reddick type of role. Team has been trying to force the PG position down his throat. They wouldn’t dare do that chit with Duncan.

I hope you’re right and he gets better, I’d love to be proven wrong on him but I don’t view it as responsibility I just view it as that’s Herros preference to play that way.

I mean you swap Duncan in for Herro and our offensive numbers are far better and our team success is far better so what responsibilities are there when Herro plays as opposed to when he doesn’t that make us a worse team? It just doesn’t add up to me. We play better as a team when he’s out and the ball moves better, that doesn’t have anything to do with responsibility in my eyes.

It’s the coaching staffs preference. They choose to be greedy with the way they want Herro to play instead of just giving him a specialty role. They are forcing him to be a star but it just might not be in the cards. Still a player that will have many years of success starting in this league. A PG is needed to basically save the coaching staff from itself and allow for Herro to take on a more complementary role.

[marson]

It's clear as day that we play better as a team when Herro is out. And this is not a knock on Herro as he is a good scorer in this league. It just happens that he does not fit well with Jimmy's playstyle going for their 5th season together.

Shot distribution is more balanced and Jimmy looks engaged when Tyler is out too.
Also, the reason why Max Strus played well last playoffs was the moment Herro got injured.

Gotta find balance and if we find an all-star PG that can distribute and score I would trade Herro.

EDIT: I still think the Kentucky connection with Pat and Herro is real and he won't trade Herro unless we have an All-star coming back for him.