Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas -Trade Deadline Thursday 2 pm CT

[paulpressey25]

I like this part from the Brewhoop piece:

What Exactly Is Adrian Griffin’s... “Thing?”
Halfway through the season, I still don’t know what Adrian Griffin’s “thing” is supposed to be. He was marketed as a defensive coach, and yet he’s overseen the worst defensive collapse in the league this year. The Bucks’ offense is efficient, but hardly getting more than the sum of its parts given the immense offensive talent that it has. In-game strategy? I don’t buy that argument at all.

It is a pretty damning article. Bucks defense is basically failing at all facets. Unfortunately, I think we're going to ride this out with Griff this season.

[Prez]

Benefiting from literally worst-in-the-league opponent shooting on wide open 3s and still managing to be 22nd defensively is truly some impressive work. As is orchestrating a defense with the intent to generate turnovers, and being dead last in the league in opponent turnover rate. And going from #1 in rebounding last year to #19 this year with the same front court, and going from #2 in opponent shooting within 6ft last year to #16 this year.

Griffin truly is generational. A masterclass on a level unseen since 2016 Kidd.

[Siefer]

For what it's worth, I think it's pretty clear some guys are frustrated with what we're doing out there. I think it's showing up in the poor transition d effort and on the glass (not that it's a good excuse). It's showing up on Brook's face every time he's defending the picker and the roller at the same time. It's showing up every time Middleton just concedes the post because he knows we're turned upside down and our bigs aren't behind him. It's showing up in how Dame's shoulders slump when two guys are standing right next to each other as he comes off a pick, or he just doesn't touch the ball for the first 4 minutes after checking back.

When things are going bad, our smart old guys have big "I don't have time for this ****" energy.

[FrieAaron]

For what it's worth, I think it's pretty clear some guys are frustrated with what we're doing out there. I think it's showing up in the poor transition d effort and on the glass (not that it's a good excuse). It's showing up on Brook's face every time he's defending the picker and the roller at the same time. It's showing up every time Middleton just concedes the post because he knows we're turned upside down and our bigs aren't behind him. It's showing up in how Dame's shoulders slump when two guys are standing right next to each other as he comes off a pick, or he just doesn't touch the ball for the first 4 minutes after checking back.

When things are going bad, or smart old guys have big "I don't have time for this ****" energy.

I agree. Thing is our schedule has been crazy soft. We have a moderately tough game and what's next? Detroit twice to suddenly get right. Hopefully they continue to keep pulling wins out of their asses all season because if the bottom does finally fall out it will be too late anyway

[Ron Swanson]

The worst case scenario is the team talent gets us to valiant playoff defeat against the Celtics or the Sixers. The management give Grief another year, following that Lillard forces us to trade him for some reduced return.

We waste another season next year before we finally fire him.

Just fire him now, there is no growth, no improvement in defense or rebounding. Even a temporary coach will be better than Grief, he is not going to coach another nba team he is nothing more than a temporary coach (and a bad one).

But I have to question the rest of the coaching staff, don't they give him some suggestions?

Like Terry Stotts (probably) did?

[yannisk]

Stotts had a nice contract, reduced responsibilities, a nice roster with two top 75 players, still he run away as far/fast as he could. Imagine what he saw in these Griefing practices

[JimmyTheKid]

Good stuff.

https://www.brewhoop.com/2024/1/19/24042827/adrian-griffin-milwaukee-bucks-midseason

I want to add a note to this section, though:

Another problem all of this scrambling has created is that the Bucks have gone from an elite defensive rebounding team for years to a slightly below average one, ranking seventeenth in Cleaning the Glass’ DRB%. They never ranked worse than third under Mike Budenholzer, even when Brook Lopez missed most of the season. The perimeter defenders are pressuring too high, too often, and forcing Lopez into difficult decisions, leaving more opportunities for opposing bigs to clean-up misses. The scrambling also leads to defenders having to closeout harder and sometimes close out across a shooter, which allows not only bigs, but also wings to come in for easy offensive rebounds.

We're also using Giannis more like a wing defender than a big, and he's spending much more time out on the perimeter, and farther from the hoop. This is a significant part of our interior problems.

"Lucky To Just Be Bad"? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm beginning to get the feeling that Brewhoop is not a big Griffin fan.

As far as I can tell, you're the only Adrian Griffin fan. So what are the casuals, die hards, local guys who get paid to study/interpret/talk/write about basketball, and national guys who get paid to study/interpret/talk/write about basketball missing? What are we missing? This just kinda feels like a schtick.

[paulpressey25]

As far as I can tell, you're the only Adrian Griffin fan. So what are the casuals, die hards, local guys who get paid to study/interpret/talk/write about basketball, and national guys who get paid to study/interpret/talk/write about basketball missing? What are we missing? This just kinda feels like a schtick.

In fairness to Sid, we've got about 3-4 guys on here that support Griffin. Think for some it's unfathomable you'd fire a brand new coach 41 games in. But that's really it. You can't support Griffin based on performance.

[DingleJerry]

Right, if this exact season/stuff was happening but not for a first year coach it would be a no brainer and done already. Well, assuming the coach didn't have a long positive history like a Pop, Spo, or guys a notch below. Being his first year is the only reason he has a job right now.

[crkone]

Right, if this exact season/stuff was happening but not for a first year coach it would be a no brainer and done already. Well, assuming the coach didn't have a long positive history like a Pop, Spo, or guys a notch below. Being his first year is the only reason he has a job right now.

He really is in over his head with this team. It's veteran enough they can get someone in right now to right the ship.

[Ron Swanson]

Say what you want about Joe Prunty, but dude has a 23-16 record as an interim head coach with a couple of way worse rosters than this current one. He's certainly not the answer long-term (well, if we win the title then why not?), but I don't see any sort of coherent argument out there that he'd actually be worse. Unless they can communicate with and rescue Atkinson from Golden State in the next few weeks, he's the only other realistic option right now.

[msiris]

I think last years Miami team has people thinking that the regular season doesn't really matter. Problem was that Maimi was never this bad on D. For thoses who think that defence doesn't matter you have no clue.

[MissKhriddleton]

Say what you want about Joe Prunty, but dude has a 23-16 record as an interim head coach with a couple of way worse rosters than this current one. He's certainly not the answer long-term (well, if we win the title then why not?), but I don't see any sort of coherent argument out there that he'd actually be worse. Unless they can communicate with and rescue Atkinson from Golden State in the next few weeks, he's the only other realistic option right now.

Yeah, I was just going to ask - why do we assume that Prunty would be worse?

Chemistry? Defensive gameplan? Offensive gameplan? Rotations? None of these things would take a hit if Griffin were fired. Let Prunty take over, the players can pretty much coach themselves, and hopefully top 75 talent alone is enough to win a ship. Griffin is actively hurting our chances.

[msiris]

As far as I can tell, you're the only Adrian Griffin fan. So what are the casuals, die hards, local guys who get paid to study/interpret/talk/write about basketball, and national guys who get paid to study/interpret/talk/write about basketball missing? What are we missing? This just kinda feels like a schtick.

In fairness to Sid, we've got about 3-4 guys on here that support Griffin. Think for some it's unfathomable you'd fire a brand new coach 41 games in. But that's really it. You can't support Griffin based on performance.

In all fainess I don't think its al on him either. Are some player just that dense to understand wants done? Are some players bad fits? Are some player just fricken lazy? I just feel that if things stay the same you can forget a chip.

[Ron Swanson]

I just can't imagine there's that many "Energy and Effort" holdouts left the more these embarrassing, non-competitive losses vs. inferior teams keep piling up. Silver lining is that he's been so bad to the point where I really can't see him being back unless we win it all. There's just no way Horst and the entire organization isn't seeing the writing on the wall here. The visible frustration on the court, the local and national media in alignment, etc.

Best case right now is Horst turning Bobby/Pat/Marjon/AJJ/2nd's and the buyout market into 1-2 serviceable defensive guys that can play when it matters, then hoping for good health throughout the postseason and banking on no one being able to guard a Giannis/Dame/Middleton offense on auto-pilot. Certainly possible and hell, maybe even likely given the talent, but the margin for error is just a lot smaller. If it doesn't work out, then fire Griffin the second we get bounced and go hire Kenny Atkinson, aka what you should have done in the first place.

[ReasonablySober]

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[Prez]

As far as I can tell, you're the only Adrian Griffin fan. So what are the casuals, die hards, local guys who get paid to study/interpret/talk/write about basketball, and national guys who get paid to study/interpret/talk/write about basketball missing? What are we missing? This just kinda feels like a schtick.

In fairness to Sid, we've got about 3-4 guys on here that support Griffin. Think for some it's unfathomable you'd fire a brand new coach 41 games in. But that's really it. You can't support Griffin based on performance.

In all fainess I don't think it’s al on him either. Are some player just that dense to understand wants done? Are some players bad fits? Are some player just fricken lazy? I just feel that if things stay the same you can forget a chip.

The effort problem is a product of us having a bunch of experienced vets that know basketball, have been on really good to elite teams, and know stupid coaching when they see it. You’re just not gonna get them to consistently buy into that night to night.

It was similar with Kidd, but back then you had younger teams with more guys who would be open to mindlessly playing hard even in totally suboptimal schemes.

[DingleJerry]

Well that would be interesting. Not sure how they can pull it off with so few assets. But hey, have to try.

[The Wet Whistle]

I don't see a trade for Murray that makes too much sense for either Bucks or Hawks. At least not straight up, maybe if a third team was involved

[ReasonablySober]

Pat
Panye
AJax
Marjon
and the Portland pick?