Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas -Trade Deadline Thursday 2 pm CT

[-Jragon-]

Damn, gonna be up all night trying to think of an answer to this one

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Beat me by 3 minutes.

Yeah. I was like… Larry Bird, Dirk Nowitski, Glenn Robinson, um…. Khris Middleton.

Big Dog played like 10 games that year, weird flex there.

Larry and Dirk are hall of famers that could do everything and anything.. if they weren't dogs on D, they were incredible competitors that had near 7ft length to challenge shots

Derozen, Carmello, PG.. that's probably the comparisons... Kawaii was all mid range but also dominant D.

[Matches Malone]

If we're dealing with the Hawks, I could see Adrian Griffin's son coming back our way in a deal.

[Prez]

"Lucky To Just Be Bad"? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm beginning to get the feeling that Brewhoop is not a big Griffin fan.

As far as I can tell, you're the only Adrian Griffin fan. So what are the casuals, die hards, local guys who get paid to study/interpret/talk/write about basketball, and national guys who get paid to study/interpret/talk/write about basketball missing? What are we missing? This just kinda feels like a schtick.

Ironic that on a forum where every Bucks coach since Larry Drew has essentially been called a mental defective (might have been right about Larry Drew, though ), defending the first-year guy halfway into a ~.700 season is called shtick.

I understand the need to vent, and grousing about the coach is pretty much the national pastime, but "Lucky To Just Be Bad"? Is that the reasoned position you criticize me for objecting to?

Do you have any rebuttal to the actual content in that section of the piece or is it literally just the header that you have an issue with? Because he lays out his case pretty well, enough to warrant us not just reducing it to the (frankly accurate) header.

[Frank Nova]

If we're dealing with the Hawks, I could see Adrian Griffin's son coming back our way in a deal.

Murray and Griffin for Portis Pat Livingston works

[Ryan5UW]

If we're dealing with the Hawks, I could see Adrian Griffin's son coming back our way in a deal.

Can we somehow send them ours instead?

[DingleJerry]

Side note as Hunter was mentioned. Hunter did take a pretty clear step up this year before going out the last few weeks with an injury. He's good. But they probably have a small conundrum as they have to decide on Jalen Johnson soon too, are they going to pay both who overlap quite a bit.

[pifhluk23]

I called it weeks ago, Murray is a good fit but it means were keeping Griffin. I'm not sure how it gets done but we got Dame so Horst can figure it out.

Lopez
Giannis
Middleton
Murray
Dame

If that offense isn't #1 then Griffin is literally the worst coach in NBA history. Murray led the league in steals 2? years ago so that and his 6"10" wingspan helps the defense no matter the scheme/coach.

[Wonka]

Lots of talk of Murray’s defense having regressed in Atlanta. Is that due to him regressing as a player, or more due to the fact that the Hawks are always a defensive turnstile?

[msiris]

In fairness to Sid, we've got about 3-4 guys on here that support Griffin. Think for some it's unfathomable you'd fire a brand new coach 41 games in. But that's really it. You can't support Griffin based on performance.

In all fainess I don't think it’s al on him either. Are some player just that dense to understand wants done? Are some players bad fits? Are some player just fricken lazy? I just feel that if things stay the same you can forget a chip.

The effort problem is a product of us having a bunch of experienced vets that know basketball, have been on really good to elite teams, and know stupid coaching when they see it. You’re just not gonna get them to consistently buy into that night to night.

It was similar with Kidd, but back then you had younger teams with more guys who would be open to mindlessly playing hard even in totally suboptimal schemes.

If so then it up to the players to be very vocal about itt. That doesn't seem to be happening all. MAybe they don't care, too lazy or just too dumb that things aren't working that great.

[DingleJerry]

Beat me by 3 minutes.

Yeah. I was like… Larry Bird, Dirk Nowitski, Glenn Robinson, um…. Khris Middleton.

Big Dog played like 10 games that year, weird flex there.

Larry and Dirk are hall of famers that could do everything and anything.. if they weren't dogs on D, they were incredible competitors that had near 7ft length to challenge shots

Derozen, Carmello, PG.. that's probably the comparisons... Kawaii was all mid range but also dominant D.

Tony Parker. Late career Heatles Wade who was bad at D. Then you can get into good teams that didn't quite win titles and come up with more.

[soxperry]

The Hawks are not going to trade Murray unless they get the equivalent of at least two first round picks in return. So it comes down to what people feel Bobby is worth and I don't really know where to begin with that.

But quite honestly I'm really not sure about Murray the personality. He seems like kind of a dark cloud and I'm not sure he has the professionalism to counterbalance it. This is just my gut reaction from afar.

[GregAz]

Bud maybe had more leverage during playoff time because KM was stationed at the arc for back breaking 3 pointers over those teams off Giannis gravity 90% of the time. Yes, he did try to get the ball from Jrue but Jrue usually waved him off and dribbled up. Khris fiddling with the ball top of the were our worst turnovers and least efficient plays even in the 2021 playoffs and I think the perimeter defense will be better this year than the the hawks nets and suns. Maybe Fiddleton is a better nickname for him.

LOL **** outta here with the revisionist bull.

Khris Middleton had more frontcourt touches per game in that run than Jrue and Giannis. His time of possession per game was higher than Giannis and despite not being a point guard (dribbling the ball up the court), on par with Jrue. He led our team in pick and roll ball handle possessions, more than Jrue and Giannis COMBINED on top of more PPP in those than Jrue and Giannis. 4 iso's per game on more PPP than Giannis and Jrue. He shot 193 mid ranged shots on 46%. But yeah he was basically Malik Beasley under Bud.

Again, **** outta here. You don't like him. You don't gotta make up some fantasy world around it.

Specifically in the playoffs on that championship run 90% of our possessions was Jrue or Giannis with the ball and KM/Brook at the arc.. I watched these games several times. During the seasons it maybe was different.

This stuff is pretty easy to look up. Stats back this up, do you have a stat that shows what your eyes saw?

[Ron Swanson]

Pure speculation but I can't imagine the Hawks are fine being a luxury tax team while toiling away at the bottom of the conference standings. They'll only be ~$8 million below the first apron with 9 rostered guys next season. I'd say it'd be a dumb use of assets to use Murray just to dump other long-term salary, but maybe they really want to recoup some of those draft picks even at a net loss if it means wiping the cap sheet clean.

But again, I think too many people are asking if we have the assets to pull it off (I doubt it but I also think Murray got really overrated), and not enough people asking why Dame/Giannis' "guy" in the media is the first to report on this.

[jute2003]

In fairness to Sid, we've got about 3-4 guys on here that support Griffin. Think for some it's unfathomable you'd fire a brand new coach 41 games in. But that's really it. You can't support Griffin based on performance.

In all fainess I don't think it’s al on him either. Are some player just that dense to understand wants done? Are some players bad fits? Are some player just fricken lazy? I just feel that if things stay the same you can forget a chip.

The effort problem is a product of us having a bunch of experienced vets that know basketball, have been on really good to elite teams, and know stupid coaching when they see it. You’re just not gonna get them to consistently buy into that night to night.

It was similar with Kidd, but back then you had younger teams with more guys who would be open to mindlessly playing hard even in totally suboptimal schemes.

I think we got some guys that like to coast regardless of coach.

[Siefer]

Say what you want about Joe Prunty, but dude has a 23-16 record as an interim head coach with a couple of way worse rosters than this current one. He's certainly not the answer long-term (well, if we win the title then why not?), but I don't see any sort of coherent argument out there that he'd actually be worse. Unless they can communicate with and rescue Atkinson from Golden State in the next few weeks, he's the only other realistic option right now.

I don't know about worse, but I don't see him as a guy who will significantly change things - even stuff like going after the easy wins in transition, and pulling Giannis back towards the hoop. In that case, we're just incurring the damage that comes with a coach change like this for little benefit. I'd be happy to be wrong, but I view his stint as interim coach as more of an improvement by route of "the players hadn't quit on this guy."

[Baddy Chuck]

Bud maybe had more leverage during playoff time because KM was stationed at the arc for back breaking 3 pointers over those teams off Giannis gravity 90% of the time. Yes, he did try to get the ball from Jrue but Jrue usually waved him off and dribbled up. Khris fiddling with the ball top of the were our worst turnovers and least efficient plays even in the 2021 playoffs and I think the perimeter defense will be better this year than the the hawks nets and suns. Maybe Fiddleton is a better nickname for him.

LOL **** outta here with the revisionist bull.

Khris Middleton had more frontcourt touches per game in that run than Jrue and Giannis. His time of possession per game was higher than Giannis and despite not being a point guard (dribbling the ball up the court), on par with Jrue. He led our team in pick and roll ball handle possessions, more than Jrue and Giannis COMBINED on top of more PPP in those than Jrue and Giannis. 4 iso's per game on more PPP than Giannis and Jrue. He shot 193 mid ranged shots on 46%. But yeah he was basically Malik Beasley under Bud.

Again, **** outta here. You don't like him. You don't gotta make up some fantasy world around it.

Specifically in the playoffs on that championship run 90% of our possessions was Jrue or Giannis with the ball and KM/Brook at the arc.. I watched these games several times. During the seasons it maybe was different.

Those are playoff numbers.

[-Jragon-]

LOL **** outta here with the revisionist bull.

Khris Middleton had more frontcourt touches per game in that run than Jrue and Giannis. His time of possession per game was higher than Giannis and despite not being a point guard (dribbling the ball up the court), on par with Jrue. He led our team in pick and roll ball handle possessions, more than Jrue and Giannis COMBINED on top of more PPP in those than Jrue and Giannis. 4 iso's per game on more PPP than Giannis and Jrue. He shot 193 mid ranged shots on 46%. But yeah he was basically Malik Beasley under Bud.

Again, **** outta here. You don't like him. You don't gotta make up some fantasy world around it.

Specifically in the playoffs on that championship run 90% of our possessions was Jrue or Giannis with the ball and KM/Brook at the arc.. I watched these games several times. During the seasons it maybe was different.

This stuff is pretty easy to look up. Stats back this up, do you have a stat that shows what your eyes saw?

How can you look up a stat on where a man was standing at the start of offensive sets .. if he pump fakes a 3 and comes 1-2 dribbles and shoots that's exactly what I'm asking for because it's wide open but a stat won't show it. The highlights are all on YouTube watch where he starts possessions, watch Jrue wave him off in the backcourt, and watch who turns the ball over at the end of the games fiddling that turns into dunks

[-Jragon-]

Yeah. I was like… Larry Bird, Dirk Nowitski, Glenn Robinson, um…. Khris Middleton.

Big Dog played like 10 games that year, weird flex there.

Larry and Dirk are hall of famers that could do everything and anything.. if they weren't dogs on D, they were incredible competitors that had near 7ft length to challenge shots

Derozen, Carmello, PG.. that's probably the comparisons... Kawaii was all mid range but also dominant D.

Tony Parker. Late career Heatles Wade who was bad at D. Then you can get into good teams that didn't quite win titles and come up with more.

Sooo you agree then? Deep 2s usually aren't the best way to win? Wade and Parker were very aggressive with amazing handles attacking the hoops and drawing fouls... does that describe our guy?

[nagawicka]

Good stuff.

https://www.brewhoop.com/2024/1/19/24042827/adrian-griffin-milwaukee-bucks-midseason

I want to add a note to this section, though:

Another problem all of this scrambling has created is that the Bucks have gone from an elite defensive rebounding team for years to a slightly below average one, ranking seventeenth in Cleaning the Glass’ DRB%. They never ranked worse than third under Mike Budenholzer, even when Brook Lopez missed most of the season. The perimeter defenders are pressuring too high, too often, and forcing Lopez into difficult decisions, leaving more opportunities for opposing bigs to clean-up misses. The scrambling also leads to defenders having to closeout harder and sometimes close out across a shooter, which allows not only bigs, but also wings to come in for easy offensive rebounds.

We're also using Giannis more like a wing defender than a big, and he's spending much more time out on the perimeter, and farther from the hoop. This is a significant part of our interior problems.

"Lucky To Just Be Bad"? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm beginning to get the feeling that Brewhoop is not a big Griffin fan.

Yeah, they’re convinced that numerical analysis qualifies as basketball iq; it doesn’t and they’re fresh outta words when on-court events show the exhaustive analysis’s off-point and off the mark. Stats showing one thing then misapplied to assert that an entirely separate claim or project has been proven generally undercuts cred fairly severely.

[bucksfansince88]

If we're dealing with the Hawks, I could see Adrian Griffin's son coming back our way in a deal.

Murray and Griffin for Portis Pat Livingston works

no brainer for us, but cant see Atlanta wanting that package for those guys.