Woj: Raptors trade Pascal Siakam to Pacers for Bruce Brown, Jordan Nwora, Kira Lewis and 3 first round picks

[WuTang_CMB]

Raptors are all over the place what a disaster for them.

The OG trade wasn't for picks but for a future RFA and Barrett. They then move Siakam for picks and a negative value contract in Brown (20M over the next two years for 5-10M production) makes sense in a vacuum but not after the OG trade.

Whatever you think of the trades and I like the Siakam deal what its clear the Rapots lack most is direction

Lol nope.

Scottie. Barnes.

The deals, especially the NY made a ton of sense. Finally got a lead guard and got a supporting cast member in RJ who's so far thriving in a new system.

Siakam deal scooped flexibility to make further moves or draft. Shoulda dealt him last year but they still got decent value for an expiring.

We re-built our squad in less than 2 months where we now have a ton of upside.

Is Scottie playing tank commander this year? He gave the game away last against the Bulls.
If you can't beat crappy teams like the Bulls you might as well tank and keep your draft pick.

The team is rebuilding.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

It's amazing how people on this forum doesn't understand how a guy like Pascal fits into current Pacers' roster and what they need and lack. Wow.

His fit concerns me.

There are a lot of elements that the Pacers lack and Siakam will definitely help in those areas.

That said, his lack of shooting is a real concern. The Pacers have one of the best offenses the league has ever seen, in part, because everyone on the floor is a threat to shoot the ball. Take that away and how much of the Pacers flow is disrupted?

This isn’t me knocking Siakam, who is a great player, would put up big stats, and help the Pacers in a lot of ways, moreso just wondering how his lack of a shot would potentially effect the Pacers offense and what they do.

You know what's trash about this opinion? Pacers had a 6'4" SF in Bruce Brown who's shooting 32% from 3 this year. They are sending him AWAY, replacing him with 6'9" SF/PF and a 33% career shooter from 3 who's also a MUCH BETTER front court player, a paint finisher that Brown isn't, much better defender than Brown is, and says PASCAL isn't going to FIT!!!!!

utter trash!!!

That is a fair point, but it is a bit different when one is an afterthought on offense and the other is a main piece. But Siakam’s passing should help there.

[Stannis]

Why are the votes overwhelming in favor for Pacers winning this trade?

I voted even.

If you are the Raptors, what more do you want for him?

[BHF]

All i have to Pacers fans is watch Pascals defense and the amount of times he gets blown by players. Watch and see for yourself, I've seen Brook Lopez beat Sialam off the dribble.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Why are the votes overwhelming in favor for Pacers winning this trade?

I voted even.

If you are the Raptors, what more do you want for him?

Some(not all) Raptors fans convinced themselves they’d get full value for him regardless of his contract situation.

[Nuntius]

You really think a wizards fan is not watching the pacers....come on man...I have been posting on the main board about Haliburton since dude emerged- before the trade...he is a stud.

But SGA is quietly (no drama at all) for 2 years straight ahead of Luka in the MvP running and Luka is the high water mark for the your players...and SGA finished ahead of him in mvp votes last year and is currently ahead of him.

The top tier is Giannis, Jokic and Embiid-

Then it’s Luka, SGA

Then it’s Tatum, KD, AD, Kawhi, PG, - that tier-

Then it’s Haliburton- dude about to break through but you gotta be that guy more than one year - you gotta be great multiple years to break through and really start being the guy - Plus you gotta win more. This piece should help them win more then we can see if he really is that guy - SGA already that guy

If winning more is part of that criteria (which, I do agree that it should be) then why is SGA in that tier? The Thunder lost in the play-ins last year and they finished the season slightly below .500 (40-42). Granted, they have a great record now and they absolutely are for real (the combination of how good they are now and how many assets they still have is unreal, they have the best future while also having an amazing present) but this is the year that they are doing their winning. The same year as the Pacers and Haliburton are doing their own winning.

If we want to be consistent about that winning part, we cannot really say that one guy really is that guy while the other one has to win more to really be considered that guy. They are either both that guy or they both have to do more winning to prove it. Personally, I think it's the former. They are both that guy and I won't blame anyone for picking one over the other.

I will agree that they are both below that Giannis/Jokic/Embiid tier, though.

Fair points - my admitted recency bias is showing.

SGAs mvp finish last year tells you where the leagues sports writers see him- couple that with this years all around performance and I see SGA at a level that’s hard to ascend to or predict if someone will ever attain.

Right now I take SGA over anyone based on the combination of youth, leadership, apparent ease to coach or coachablity, fit with damn near any team, plays defense and offensive skills. But I think Indy fans should feel like they got a good hand right now and go with it lol

They should not covet anyone that plays guard over their guy

Agreed. SGA is definitely an awesome player and OKC is in an amazing position as a team. Both he and the team are getting the recognition that they deserve. They will be a force to be reckoned with for years to come.

PS: I'm glad they're not in the East

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

All i have to Pacers fans is watch Pascals defense and the amount of times he gets blown by players. Watch and see for yourself, I've seen Brook Lopez beat Sialam off the dribble.

I’ve heard mixed reports on this from Raptors fans. Some claim he is a great defender who just hasn’t put forth the effort on a bad team, while also trying to be the primary scorer on offense.

I haven’t watched enough Raptors games to know to be honest, but I know he used to have a reputation as a good defender, and there doesn’t seem to be any reason why he’d be unable to get there again.

Either way, I feel you could amputate a leg from Siakam, and he’d still be a better defender than Toppin, so still an upgrade.

[Nuntius]

When I first heard 3 FRPs, I was like wow that’s a lot for a FA. After finding out more, Those low picks are less valuable than #31-35 second round picks with non-guaranteed salaries.

So the Raptors basically bailed and avoided losing him for nothing.

If I were fan of the Pacers, your view of the frps makes sense. As a fan of the Raptors, having young, first round talent locked up is very much a positive. I think sometimes we forget a lot of solid players have been taken late in the first round - Pascal, Gobert, Butler, Bogs, White, OG to name a few that are currently playing. Despite a couple of hiccups, Raps have done pretty well drafting late in the draft.

I agree. It is indeed different for every team. The Raptors have a very good track record at hitting with late picks in the draft. So, those picks are valuable for them.

The Pacers, on the other hand, already have a lot of young players on cheap deals on their roster and these players do require minutes and roster spots. We didn't even have enough roster spots for all the draft picks we had going into last year's draft which is why we traded some into the future and picked Mojave King in the 2nd round with the goal of stashing him. So, those picks aren't as valuable to us as they are for you.

[Nuntius]

Watching Pacers last night confirmed just how deep they are ... An underrated part of their game that actually makes individual players UNDERRATED is Carlisle spreads out the minutes so much, casual fans that can't grasp things other than "per game stats" underestimate them. Also keeps guys fresher. Their 7-8-9-10 guys in the rotation are so legit and also PLAY THE RIGHT WAY which is rare when you go deep into their bench.

For example on the minute thing - I see many people in threads underestimate Mathurin's current game & potential. Like this dude is a legit #2/3 scorer in my opinion if not now, for sure as he grows into next season. Averaging 14.8 ppg on 47/37.5/84 splits in 26 MPG. That's crazy. Casuals see 14.8 but overlook the minutes. Most young guys like him be playing 32-36 mpg and even if they put up 20+ on inferior percentages, casuals rate that player higher than Mathurin. They shouldn't. He's legit legit. Same thing with Nembhard - If he's not the best backup guard in the league yet, by next season he may be.

Now the challenge is - resigning all this depth when they're up for extension. Will be challenging. But for right now, I don't think there's a deeper team in the league right now with not just talented guys, but guys that work hard, unselfish & play the right way.

OKC

If I had to rank depth of young talent, I'd have OKC 1st and the Pacers next.

And as a Pacers fan, I would agree. OKC's depth is unprecedented, imo.

[links135]

All i have to Pacers fans is watch Pascals defense and the amount of times he gets blown by players. Watch and see for yourself, I've seen Brook Lopez beat Sialam off the dribble.

I’ve heard mixed reports on this from Raptors fans. Some claim he is a great defender who just hasn’t put forth the effort on a bad team, while also trying to be the primary scorer on offense.

I haven’t watched enough Raptors games to know to be honest, but I know he used to have a reputation as a good defender, and there doesn’t seem to be any reason why he’d be unable to get there again.

Either way, I feel you could amputate a leg from Siakam, and he’d still be a better defender than Toppin, so still an upgrade.

His reputation would be from playing with Kwahi, Gasol, Ibaka, Green and Lowry.

[BHF]

All i have to Pacers fans is watch Pascals defense and the amount of times he gets blown by players. Watch and see for yourself, I've seen Brook Lopez beat Sialam off the dribble.

I’ve heard mixed reports on this from Raptors fans. Some claim he is a great defender who just hasn’t put forth the effort on a bad team, while also trying to be the primary scorer on offense.

I haven’t watched enough Raptors games to know to be honest, but I know he used to have a reputation as a good defender, and there doesn’t seem to be any reason why he’d be unable to get there again.

Either way, I feel you could amputate a leg from Siakam, and he’d still be a better defender than Toppin, so still an upgrade.

He is defiantly an upgrade over Toppin, But he was never a great defender to start with and now he lost a step or two and also tends to be lazy on defense a lot. It could be that he didn't care to play hard because he knew he was leaving but at times he would play lazy and gave me Zion/Randle vibes.

[links135]

Raptors are all over the place what a disaster for them.

The OG trade wasn't for picks but for a future RFA and Barrett. They then move Siakam for picks and a negative value contract in Brown (20M over the next two years for 5-10M production) makes sense in a vacuum but not after the OG trade.

Whatever you think of the trades and I like the Siakam deal what its clear the Rapots lack most is direction

Lol nope.

Scottie. Barnes.

The deals, especially the NY made a ton of sense. Finally got a lead guard and got a supporting cast member in RJ who's so far thriving in a new system.

Siakam deal scooped flexibility to make further moves or draft. Shoulda dealt him last year but they still got decent value for an expiring.

We re-built our squad in less than 2 months where we now have a ton of upside.

Also I mean Brown has a team option next year, effectively making him an expiring. We were ass before the trades, looking to sign Siakam to the max and have OG also make big money..... what direction were the Raptors supposed to go? Trade Siakam for SGA plus all their 1sts?

Get Embiid for OG?

[CobraCommander]

If winning more is part of that criteria (which, I do agree that it should be) then why is SGA in that tier? The Thunder lost in the play-ins last year and they finished the season slightly below .500 (40-42). Granted, they have a great record now and they absolutely are for real (the combination of how good they are now and how many assets they still have is unreal, they have the best future while also having an amazing present) but this is the year that they are doing their winning. The same year as the Pacers and Haliburton are doing their own winning.

If we want to be consistent about that winning part, we cannot really say that one guy really is that guy while the other one has to win more to really be considered that guy. They are either both that guy or they both have to do more winning to prove it. Personally, I think it's the former. They are both that guy and I won't blame anyone for picking one over the other.

I will agree that they are both below that Giannis/Jokic/Embiid tier, though.

Fair points - my admitted recency bias is showing.

SGAs mvp finish last year tells you where the leagues sports writers see him- couple that with this years all around performance and I see SGA at a level that’s hard to ascend to or predict if someone will ever attain.

Right now I take SGA over anyone based on the combination of youth, leadership, apparent ease to coach or coachablity, fit with damn near any team, plays defense and offensive skills. But I think Indy fans should feel like they got a good hand right now and go with it lol

They should not covet anyone that plays guard over their guy

Agreed. SGA is definitely an awesome player and OKC is in an amazing position as a team. Both he and the team are getting the recognition that they deserve. They will be a force to be reckoned with for years to come.

PS: I'm glad they're not in the East

Yeah if OKC can keep them together they gonna be fighting sac in 2 years for the conf title -

[ChumboChappati]

Ok, so this is a home run from the Pacers. They did not lose any good young players and also did not lose any good FRPs. And they get a legit #2 who is a great match for their team. Now they can make a run of #1b with all their assets, and if succeed then go for the championship.

Pacers knew Siakam was signing with them 100% whether before the trade deadline or in the off-season. I suspect a colluding here between Siakam and the Pacers. Raptors hands were tied. I saw that tweet that they did try to get any 1 young player from Pacers but failed. But the Raptors fans should not hold their breath that NBA will investigate and punish the Pacers. Raptors are the only NBA team outside of USA and they should be forever grateful for it. These things happen; move on.

[docholliday99]

His fit concerns me.

There are a lot of elements that the Pacers lack and Siakam will definitely help in those areas.

That said, his lack of shooting is a real concern. The Pacers have one of the best offenses the league has ever seen, in part, because everyone on the floor is a threat to shoot the ball. Take that away and how much of the Pacers flow is disrupted?

This isn’t me knocking Siakam, who is a great player, would put up big stats, and help the Pacers in a lot of ways, moreso just wondering how his lack of a shot would potentially effect the Pacers offense and what they do.

You know what's trash about this opinion? Pacers had a 6'4" SF in Bruce Brown who's shooting 32% from 3 this year. They are sending him AWAY, replacing him with 6'9" SF/PF and a 33% career shooter from 3 who's also a MUCH BETTER front court player, a paint finisher that Brown isn't, much better defender than Brown is, and says PASCAL isn't going to FIT!!!!!

utter trash!!!

That is a fair point, but it is a bit different when one is an afterthought on offense and the other is a main piece. But Siakam’s passing should help there.

Regarding Pascal's 3pt shooting, he's a career 37% from the corner and he's shooting 48% from the corners this season - far and away better than Turner and definitely better than Brown. What PS should avoid is being a 3pt shooter as a trailer at the top of the arc and in transition - brings his overall % down. Pascal in the corner and Turner on the opposite elbow (where he shoots 3's at a higher percentage) or the other corner will create a lot of space for Hali to operate. If oppositions close out to quickly, Pascal is quick enough to drive to the rim or dish - 2 aspects of his game that he really excels at. I honestly wouldn't worry about his fit.

[SFour]

It's amazing how people on this forum doesn't understand how a guy like Pascal fits into current Pacers' roster and what they need and lack. Wow.

His fit concerns me.

There are a lot of elements that the Pacers lack and Siakam will definitely help in those areas.

That said, his lack of shooting is a real concern. The Pacers have one of the best offenses the league has ever seen, in part, because everyone on the floor is a threat to shoot the ball. Take that away and how much of the Pacers flow is disrupted?

This isn’t me knocking Siakam, who is a great player, would put up big stats, and help the Pacers in a lot of ways, moreso just wondering how his lack of a shot would potentially effect the Pacers offense and what they do.

You know what's trash about this opinion? Pacers had a 6'4" SF in Bruce Brown who's shooting 32% from 3 this year. They are sending him AWAY, replacing him with 6'9" SF/PF and a 33% career shooter from 3 who's also a MUCH BETTER front court player, a paint finisher that Brown isn't, much better defender than Brown is, and says PASCAL isn't going to FIT!!!!!

utter trash!!!

Spoiler:

Siakam isn't a good defender.....he's been a poor/lazy defender for ~3 seasons now.

[Solid]

Pascal will be looked up to by a young hungry team, won't have to play heavy minutes, and his scoring will come easy.
His D will bounce back pretty well.

[WeTheNorth123]

cant believe they are losing to blazers

[HotelVitale]

Ok, so this is a home run from the Pacers. They did not lose any good young players and also did not lose any good FRPs. And they get a legit #2 who is a great match for their team. Now they can make a run of #1b with all their assets, and if succeed then go for the championship. Pacers knew Siakam was signing with them 100% whether before the trade deadline or in the off-season. I suspect a colluding here between Siakam and the Pacers. Raptors hands were tied. I saw that tweet that they did try to get any 1 young player from Pacers but failed. But the Raptors fans should not hold their breath that NBA will investigate and punish the Pacers. Raptors are the only NBA team outside of USA and they should be forever grateful for it. These things happen; move on.

Not getting the conspiracy theory here. If the Raptors 'hands were tied' then why was the return so good? 3 1sts and a really valuable guy in Bruce Brown was more than most expected for a guy who was either leaving soon or going to cost more than a rebuilding team wanted to pay him. If there was truly some collusion going on--e.g. Siakam saying 'only trade me to Indy or I'll make things messy'--you'd expect maybe half of that.

[Nuntius]

cant believe they are losing to blazers

It happens. The starters were awesome but our bench, which usually is a huge point of strength for us, was completely spent after last night's victory over Sacramento.