Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas -Trade Deadline Thursday 2 pm CT

[Badgerlander]

Our biggest need is an on ball defender at SG

[DingleJerry]

Sooo you agree then? Deep 2s usually aren't the best way to win? Wade and Parker were very aggressive with amazing handles attacking the hoops and drawing fouls... does that describe our guy?

You made a point and people listed off that like half the teams of the last 20 years have had guys like that. Then add in the guys that shoot midranges but were good at D (which I don't know why they're excluded in a discussion about offense) and its likely every team got a major top 3-4 guy on their team with midrange as their prime scoring route. So, no.

Because it's the least efficient shot that draws the least amount fouls and generally the make % is very similar to 3pt %.. so if a guy were to choose the least effective weapon to fight with then at least be a dog on defense to add to your value. In my memory there were some weak defenders that won it all but mostly they were lights out at shooting 3s like Korver which is the most efficient shot with the least amount of turnovers if your handles aren't very good. This is why 3 and D guys became the moneyball hack to put around your superstars because it's the highest efficiency roles put together.

Do you remember what Detroit was doing when they won that Chip? Didn't they beat Kobe with zero superstars? Billups, Sheed and them... it was all aggressive D and inside out ball.. a bunch of role players that the best ball handler draw and kick and the others knock down 3s or pump fake. We have 2 superstars.. imagine what some 3 and D role players like that could accomplish here

Dude we all know 3s is more efficient than 2 in general if all things are equal. But its good to have all bases covered. You also have to remember that Ds these days also know 3s are better and try to take them away and you get forced into 2s. Especially in the playoffs when Ds clamp down, its good to have folks who can hit tough contested shots. You can keep digging your hole deeper but we all just listed off that the vast majority of title teams and near title teams have had guys like this.

Oh good example btw who I forgot on that Pistons: Rip Hamilton midrange dynamo. You made a point against yourself.

[MickeyDavis]

Haynes said "multiple teams" so while the Bucks interest could be legit I still think it's unlikely to get done. And he can walk this summer.

[nagawicka]

Wouldn’t all this’ve been exposed during interviews with Horst et al? Like ‘What schemes, IF HIRED, do you propose to install and run with our current roster?' What would Edens’ & Horsts’ thinking

Do Horst or Edens have the background to evaluate if a scheme will be a success or not? I would have hoped they have an experienced basketball person to help them with this kind of stuff, but do they actually have someone?

Doesn’t every NBA GM? If Horst doesn’t have the background, how’d he get hired let alone hold the job, and b) he like every NBA franchise has folks on staff who do know how to evaluate scheme.
Again: What would Horst’s thinking be?

[Shaffty]

Haynes said "multiple teams" so while the Bucks interest could be legit I still think it's unlikely to get done. And he can walk this summer.

no he cant hes signed for 5 more years

[Ron Swanson]

Our biggest need is an on ball defender at SG

True, but if Griffin isn't going to then go completely back to the drop defense and using Giannis as a roamer, then one has to wonder if it even matters. You might just be better off getting someone more versatile like Dorian Finney-Smith or Royce O'Neal for much cheaper.

[MissKhriddleton]

Say what you want about Joe Prunty, but dude has a 23-16 record as an interim head coach with a couple of way worse rosters than this current one. He's certainly not the answer long-term (well, if we win the title then why not?), but I don't see any sort of coherent argument out there that he'd actually be worse. Unless they can communicate with and rescue Atkinson from Golden State in the next few weeks, he's the only other realistic option right now.

Yeah, I was just going to ask - why do we assume that Prunty would be worse?

Chemistry? Defensive gameplan? Offensive gameplan? Rotations? None of these things would take a hit if Griffin were fired. Let Prunty take over, the players can pretty much coach themselves, and hopefully top 75 talent alone is enough to win a ship. Griffin is actively hurting our chances.

‘Joe Prunty will save us’ buuut isn’t he already contributing the 6 magic beans making the Bucks look so good right now?

“Hey, your boss has been fired for x, y, z and we’d like you to take over.”

Are you going to be like cool, let’s keep doing x, y, z?

[Badgerlander]

Our biggest need is an on ball defender at SG

True, but if Griffin isn't going to then go completely back to the drop defense and using Giannis as a roamer, then one has to wonder if it even matters. You might just be better off getting someone more versatile like Dorian Finney-Smith or Royce O'Neal for much cheaper.

I think both of those guys make us marginally better, as in not worth the outgoing assets. How are they more versatile? They are better wing defenders off the bench but our defense is broken so I would wonder if they would even matter? Our defense will continue to suck if we can’t stop dribble penetration, and neither of those guys does anything to improve our offense. Deck chair guys that really on athleticism and are on the wrong side of 30. Prime Jae Crowder could guard on the ball, same with Wes. Those two are just guys, warm bodies. Oh look we’ve improved our 7/8 rotation guy. Meh

[sidney lanier]

As far as I can tell, you're the only Adrian Griffin fan. So what are the casuals, die hards, local guys who get paid to study/interpret/talk/write about basketball, and national guys who get paid to study/interpret/talk/write about basketball missing? What are we missing? This just kinda feels like a schtick.

I’m not going to attack you or accuse you of shtick-posting. I’m sure your Griffin criticisms are sincere, as are those of others.

What I think you’re missing are the relevance and significance of the lack of first-half-season “excelling.”

The relevant point to me is the extent to which imputed coaching or other problems that have shown up heretofore affect our title chances. I’ve challenged Griffin grumps to estimate our title chances with Griffin as the full season coach, and they have not accepted the challenge.

If only there were the equivalent of a financial futures market where money talks and whingeing walks, as I suggested earlier.

Wait, there is. In it the Bucks are the third likeliest title winners.

Don’t these investors understand the impact of running ineffective defenses in January?

[yb90]

I just don't see how Murray works for the Bucks with or without Middleton being traded. He will not have the ball in his hands enough playing with Giannis and Dame. Murray is not going to turn into a skinnier version of Caldwell-Pope and be happy spotting up.

Right now your three ball handlers are Giannis, Dame and Khris. Khris is such a woeful ball handler with the slightest of pressure. This ensures one of these three can be on the floor at all times.

Bucks have this weird nostalgia thing with Khris. Getting Murray in a Khris deal would be such a boon. Murray is 27, locked up for 5 years, and exactly what they need in the starting 5.

Khris’s offense is a luxury at this point and defensively he’s a turnstile. The need for another ball handler that can provide backcourt defense is far greater than his mid range scoring. When you factor in the injury history it’s a no brainer. Just hard to find a team with assets that would want Middleton rather than just keep Dejounte for themselves

If Murray was the defensive player he is hyped up to be he would not be in trade talks for Atlanta. It's not about Murray over Khris or vice versa it's about roster construction. If Dame was more Steph than Trae then this would work or if Murray a better defensive version of Beal or Booker then maybe it would work. Unfortunately, Murray is a high volume mid efficient player who used to play good defense.

[DingleJerry]

I would say their chances are under 5%. If I had to be exact I'd say 3%. Only reason above 1 would be that there is a half left and if he drastically changes things, if they stick with what they're doing its basically 0. And you have to add in that another trade could happen to help.

And for gambling, the reason it keeps dropping on them is because no one is betting on them at those odds, ie no one thinks they have an 18% chance or whatever the odds imply. And its going to keep dropping. Didn't someone post it that its about doubled since start of season already? I don't think the gambling info is making the point you think it is.

[Matches Malone]

Let's ignore facts and statistical trends for gambling odds. Sounds good

[raferfenix]

Haynes said "multiple teams" so while the Bucks interest could be legit I still think it's unlikely to get done.

Since it’s Haynes I don’t think it’s a total fabrication. In which case either:

1. Horst is being aggressive offering Bobby+ and maybe he’ll shock the world with another creative deal.

2. Middleton is on the table.

Very interesting whichever it is.

[DingleJerry]

Haynes said "multiple teams" so while the Bucks interest could be legit I still think it's unlikely to get done.

Since it’s Haynes I don’t think it’s a total fabrication. In which case either:

1. Horst is being aggressive offering Bobby+ and maybe he’ll shock the world with another creative deal.

2. Middleton is on the table.

Very interesting whichever it is.

Think Brook being on the table should be on the list here too. Contract size is there and he's the 'square peg' in this system.

If something comes of this and you come out with Murry and Hunter I'd take it. I just see no way that's possible with MKEs assets or if ATL drastically overvalues Brook or Khris given their ages and/or injury histories

[MickeyDavis]

Haynes said "multiple teams" so while the Bucks interest could be legit I still think it's unlikely to get done. And he can walk this summer.

no he cant hes signed for 5 more years

Oh yeah. It's been a long week

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Haynes said "multiple teams" so while the Bucks interest could be legit I still think it's unlikely to get done.

Since it’s Haynes I don’t think it’s a total fabrication. In which case either:

1. Horst is being aggressive offering Bobby+ and maybe he’ll shock the world with another creative deal.

2. Middleton is on the table.

Very interesting whichever it is.

Think Brook being on the table should be on the list here too. Contract size is there and he's the 'square peg' in this system.

If something comes of this and you come out with Murry and Hunter I'd take it. I just see no way that's possible with MKEs assets or if ATL drastically overvalues Brook or Khris given their ages and/or injury histories

Yeah maybe they feel brolo can work with Quinn's d and help offset young on that side of the court....but more importantly it's a 2 year contract. Or a big expiring next year. I think the hawks get better offers sadly.

[raferfenix]

Think Brook being on the table should be on the list here too. Contract size is there and he's the 'square peg' in this system.

Ok it’s not impossible Brook was in our offer especially if considering multi-team deals.

Middleton just seems like a way more attractive piece to the Hawks with higher trade value.

That and I think Lopez’s defense is immensely valuable to us whereas Khris’ offense would be even more of a luxury if we were to get Murray.

[ReasonablySober]

I would guess Murray ends up on the Heat.

[ShootingtheJ]

Our biggest need is an on ball defender at SG

True, but if Griffin isn't going to then go completely back to the drop defense and using Giannis as a roamer, then one has to wonder if it even matters. You might just be better off getting someone more versatile like Dorian Finney-Smith or Royce O'Neal for much cheaper.

O'Neal hasn't been a defensive asset for awhile. Point of attack defender is our #1 priority. Also, Murray makes us better offensively, what happened to your idea of outscoring teams?

[PG Graveyard]

Haynes said "multiple teams" so while the Bucks interest could be legit I still think it's unlikely to get done.

Since it’s Haynes I don’t think it’s a total fabrication. In which case either:

1. Horst is being aggressive offering Bobby+ and maybe he’ll shock the world with another creative deal.

2. Middleton is on the table.

Very interesting whichever it is.

Think Brook being on the table should be on the list here too. Contract size is there and he's the 'square peg' in this system.

If something comes of this and you come out with Murry and Hunter I'd take it. I just see no way that's possible with MKEs assets or if ATL drastically overvalues Brook or Khris given their ages and/or injury histories

Taking on Hunter and Murray’s long term money may be the needle mover here for the Hawks. I don’t see any reason they do Murray for Pat/Portis/stuff.