Siakam and his team played Masai

[anotherhomer]

Masai should have extended pascal, rather than trade him for a bag of chips. This is atrocious asset management and why this is a big F....

I think the reason he was traded, was because Masai was avoiding exactly that...extending Pascal, which would have meant at a minimum a 4 year max extension. It has already been reported Pascal turned down a 2 or 3 year max extension.

And based on the fact that teams were not willing to offer much more than mid to low picks, makes me think the other teams also don't think Pascal is worth the 5 year max. They are all worried about his drop off in years 4 and 5, and having so much money committed to him.

The risk for Masai with extending Pascal then was being in a position where Pascal's new deal turns him into a negative asset (like Beal and LaVine are regarded).

I agree with your assessment. Pascal is a max player and I’m sure Indy or another team would’ve given him 5 years, but it doesn’t seem like there’s a huge market for that. The issue is with the new cap rules it’s gonna be really hard to compete with 2-3 max players. I like Pascal but he’s a 2nd option at best and arguably even a third option. Pascal’s calculus is take a 4/5 year max from Indy and ask out if things don’t work out.

ya, it's a huge risk for sure...

[Scase]

How? They have one of the best guards in the entire NBA, some of the best shooters in the NBA, and now have added one of the best post-up players in the league.

All gas, no brakes.

The risk to Indy is Pascal slows down their offense, for him to score on his post-ups. At the end of the day, Pascal still needs to produce to get paid his max contract this offseason (whether that is from Indy or another team).

So unless Indy has promised him a max 5 year deal from the start, and are prepared to see Pascal's numbers drop a bit, if he truly fits into their system (as he would probably need to take less shots and see his usage drop), then there is a risk Pascal could throw off Indy's offence if he is looking to maintain his current production.

What the Raps have been defined by these last few seasons on offence with FVV and Pascal leading the charge, is horrible ball movement and heavy iso play. That is done clearly for a reason by those players, as that is how they get their numbers and get paid. Reason Masai called it out last year.

Indy doesn't play that way. Pascal fills a lot of gaps for the Pacers (size and speed up front and inside scoring), but if his game comes at the expense of the Pacers overall style of play on O, I don't know if they resign him to the max 5 year deal.

The fact that the Pacers traded away so little of their current young assets leads me to think they are hedging their bets on Pascal.

That's the thing though, the Raptors played that way. And that was how the team was built, so that's what he did. Siakam is great in transition, he's also not the defacto #1 in IND like he was in TOR, so there's no "this is my team" mentality and he will fit into the team rather than the inverse.

Carlisle is a really good coach, and I have no doubt he will fit in like a glove.

[YogurtProducer]

What the Raps have been defined by these last few seasons on offence with FVV and Pascal leading the charge, is horrible ball movement and heavy iso play. That is done clearly for a reason by those players, as that is how they get their numbers and get paid. Reason Masai called it out last year.

I mean it also happened because that was the offense by design. And by all metrics, it was a better offense than we had this year (despite the current version of the offense being more aesthetically pleasing).

We had a team of FVV/GTJ/Barnes/OG/Siakam/Poeltl. GTJ cannot create worth a damn. Barnes was not the Barnes we see right now at all. OG cannot dribble. Poeltl cannot create. The offense was designed to be an offense that maximized the little offensive talent we had, and win the possession battle. It was not FVV or Pascal doing it to "get their numbers and get paid" as you can see how both guys this year changed offenses, continued to "get" theirs, and both performed better or similarly this year in more cohesive offenses.

Indy doesn't play that way. Pascal fills a lot of gaps for the Pacers (size and speed up front and inside scoring), but if his game comes at the expense of the Pacers overall style of play on O, I don't know if they resign him to the max 5 year deal.

Pascal has played beautifully in our offense this year. Not hogging the ball, playing off others (who are no where near Haliburton level of playmaking), and being extremely efficient. There really is no reason to believe that he is not going to fit in perfectly when for the vast majority of his career Pascal was a guy who played off-ball more than on it. He did not suddenly forget those skills.

[JB7]

Masai should have extended pascal, rather than trade him for a bag of chips. This is atrocious asset management and why this is a big F....

I think the reason he was traded, was because Masai was avoiding exactly that...extending Pascal, which would have meant at a minimum a 4 year max extension. It has already been reported Pascal turned down a 2 or 3 year max extension.

And based on the fact that teams were not willing to offer much more than mid to low picks, makes me think the other teams also don't think Pascal is worth the 5 year max. They are all worried about his drop off in years 4 and 5, and having so much money committed to him.

The risk for Masai with extending Pascal then was being in a position where Pascal's new deal turns him into a negative asset (like Beal and LaVine are regarded).

I agree with your assessment. Pascal is a max player and I’m sure Indy or another team would’ve given him 5 years, but it doesn’t seem like there’s a huge market for that. The issue is with the new cap rules it’s gonna be really hard to compete with 2-3 max players. I like Pascal but he’s a 2nd option at best and arguably even a third option. Pascal’s calculus is take a 4/5 year max from Indy and ask out if things don’t work out.

If it doesn't work out, Pascal asking out will be similar to Lavine asking out now.

[JB7]

All gas, no brakes.

The risk to Indy is Pascal slows down their offense, for him to score on his post-ups. At the end of the day, Pascal still needs to produce to get paid his max contract this offseason (whether that is from Indy or another team).

So unless Indy has promised him a max 5 year deal from the start, and are prepared to see Pascal's numbers drop a bit, if he truly fits into their system (as he would probably need to take less shots and see his usage drop), then there is a risk Pascal could throw off Indy's offence if he is looking to maintain his current production.

What the Raps have been defined by these last few seasons on offence with FVV and Pascal leading the charge, is horrible ball movement and heavy iso play. That is done clearly for a reason by those players, as that is how they get their numbers and get paid. Reason Masai called it out last year.

Indy doesn't play that way. Pascal fills a lot of gaps for the Pacers (size and speed up front and inside scoring), but if his game comes at the expense of the Pacers overall style of play on O, I don't know if they resign him to the max 5 year deal.

The fact that the Pacers traded away so little of their current young assets leads me to think they are hedging their bets on Pascal.

That's the thing though, the Raptors played that way. And that was how the team was built, so that's what he did. Siakam is great in transition, he's also not the defacto #1 in IND like he was in TOR, so there's no "this is my team" mentality and he will fit into the team rather than the inverse.

Carlisle is a really good coach, and I have no doubt he will fit in like a glove.

It definitely helps that Pascal is the one going to another team, and the hope would be he would take the cues from Hali and Carlisle about his role on the team.

But it looks like Fred has not changed much in Houston, even after getting paid. Ultimately these guys have gotten paid for their production/play, and they know playing a certain way can get them the numbers they need to get paid.

Might be different for Pascal though if he gets a 5 year max from Indy, as then he won't have the pressure of performing for his next contract, and can play the role the team needs.

[Son Goku 25]

I'm glad Masai showed emotion at the conference. This is a battle of optics and media now. I'm sure Siakam was genuine when he wrote that note and I'm also sure Masai was genuine talking about him but if they both didn't do that then they'll be thrown into the fire basically.

Such times we live in.

[___Rand___]

Pascal's agent, Todd Ramasar, also represents Andrew Nembhard of the Pacers. Pacers already knew just like Ramasar did, that Pascal was going to sign with Pacers. People are saying there's already a deal done with Pacers for the max in the summer before the trade. Having that in hand, Pascal made sure Pacers had the leverage in the negotiations.

[JB7]

What the Raps have been defined by these last few seasons on offence with FVV and Pascal leading the charge, is horrible ball movement and heavy iso play. That is done clearly for a reason by those players, as that is how they get their numbers and get paid. Reason Masai called it out last year.

I mean it also happened because that was the offense by design. And by all metrics, it was a better offense than we had this year (despite the current version of the offense being more aesthetically pleasing).

We had a team of FVV/GTJ/Barnes/OG/Siakam/Poeltl. GTJ cannot create worth a damn. Barnes was not the Barnes we see right now at all. OG cannot dribble. Poeltl cannot create. The offense was designed to be an offense that maximized the little offensive talent we had, and win the possession battle. It was not FVV or Pascal doing it to "get their numbers and get paid" as you can see how both guys this year changed offenses, continued to "get" theirs, and both performed better or similarly this year in more cohesive offenses.

Indy doesn't play that way. Pascal fills a lot of gaps for the Pacers (size and speed up front and inside scoring), but if his game comes at the expense of the Pacers overall style of play on O, I don't know if they resign him to the max 5 year deal.

Pascal has played beautifully in our offense this year. Not hogging the ball, playing off others (who are no where near Haliburton level of playmaking), and being extremely efficient. There really is no reason to believe that he is not going to fit in perfectly when for the vast majority of his career Pascal was a guy who played off-ball more than on it. He did not suddenly forget those skills.

Yes, the Raps offence last year did not have much in terms of players that could create off the dribble, and that played into both Fred and Pascal getting over used in the O. But it is not as if Fred and Pascal were all that open to playing a different style that emphasized them less. Fred clearly didn't go for it at the start of least season (because of the impact on his numbers), and it almost seemed to be a repeat of the same this year with Pascal.

Considering the way Pascal has played the last few years to justify his role and contract, it will be interesting to see if he takes a backseat in Indy, sees his minutes, shots and usage all drop along with his numbers. In Indy's O, he cannot have the same type of usage. I think he can be a great fit in Indy, but it will impact his numbers. So unless Indy has already guaranteed him the 5 year max, his numbers could be his main concern.

[Dude-niagara]

Masai was willing to give demar (our franchise star) and a recent lotto pick at the time (Poeltl) for a disgruntled rental. That was a HUUGE risk, probably the biggest risk an executive has taken in the history of the NBA. As we know.. it ended up working out. Now fast forward to this trade here… that same executive takes a horrible deal and couldn’t get Pritchard to add ONE of their many prospects for Siakam who has no reason to turn them down? Pascal will stay with the Pacers and they’ll be contenders for years, while someone like Jarace Walker will rot behind siakam and Obi toppin in the rotation

Shame that the pacers just stole a former all nba for basically NOTHING, (depending on what we get for Bruce brown). But an even bigger shame on Siakam and his team for making sure they say and leak things so that his value drops and makes sure Masai gets no good offers. Petty! Now all of a sudden he’s committed to Indy? Wow

Even if Walker and mithurin is out of the picture, how do they not even add a Nembhard or a Jackson or a Smith.

3 late firsts, 2 nobodies, and a good role player who will get re-routed. How can we be content with this?

No question and his team screwed over the franchise , talking with Haliburton before the trade while his agent leaks about him not willing to agree to an extension with any team making sure there would be no bidding war. End of the day Masai should have traded him in the offseason once he knew MLSE was not going more then 3 years and Pascal wanted 4-5 years

[Dude-niagara]

Pascal's agent, Todd Ramasar, also represents Andrew Nembhard of the Pacers. Pacers already knew just like Ramasar did, that Pascal was going to sign with Pacers. People are saying there's already a deal done with Pacers for the max in the summer before the trade. Having that in hand, Pascal made sure Pacers had the leverage in the negotiations.

Pascal did want he needed to do to help his new team preserve assets, the fault lies at the feet of Masai for waiting so long. Once Larry retires and his protection is gone then not surprised to see him fired for the laundry list of mistakes and always putting the player in the drivers seat and the team second

[___Rand___]

Pascal's agent, Todd Ramasar, also represents Andrew Nembhard of the Pacers. Pacers already knew just like Ramasar did, that Pascal was going to sign with Pacers. People are saying there's already a deal done with Pacers for the max in the summer before the trade. Having that in hand, Pascal made sure Pacers had the leverage in the negotiations.

Pascal did want he needed to do to help his new team preserve assets, the fault lies at the feet of Masai for waiting so long. Once Larry retires and his protection is gone then not surprised to see him fired for the laundry list of mistakes and always putting the player in the drivers seat and the team second

Yeah he sure did. He was better when he was savage and not attached to players. Like with Barfnani and Gay and DeMar.

[Snowwy]

The same fans that were upset with no first round picks in the OG trade are now upset with 1st round picks in this trade.

I want first round picks but not those ones!

Is it really that hard to understand that a 25th pick and a top 5 pick don't hold the same value. Man some of the **** I read on here.

Imagine being dumb enough to think they could have gotten a top 5 pick. Not sure who would think that, but doubling down on a thought like that would be even worse.

Warned. Personal attack.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

The risk to Indy is Pascal slows down their offense, for him to score on his post-ups. At the end of the day, Pascal still needs to produce to get paid his max contract this offseason (whether that is from Indy or another team).

So unless Indy has promised him a max 5 year deal from the start, and are prepared to see Pascal's numbers drop a bit, if he truly fits into their system (as he would probably need to take less shots and see his usage drop), then there is a risk Pascal could throw off Indy's offence if he is looking to maintain his current production.

What the Raps have been defined by these last few seasons on offence with FVV and Pascal leading the charge, is horrible ball movement and heavy iso play. That is done clearly for a reason by those players, as that is how they get their numbers and get paid. Reason Masai called it out last year.

Indy doesn't play that way. Pascal fills a lot of gaps for the Pacers (size and speed up front and inside scoring), but if his game comes at the expense of the Pacers overall style of play on O, I don't know if they resign him to the max 5 year deal.

The fact that the Pacers traded away so little of their current young assets leads me to think they are hedging their bets on Pascal.

That's the thing though, the Raptors played that way. And that was how the team was built, so that's what he did. Siakam is great in transition, he's also not the defacto #1 in IND like he was in TOR, so there's no "this is my team" mentality and he will fit into the team rather than the inverse.

Carlisle is a really good coach, and I have no doubt he will fit in like a glove.

It definitely helps that Pascal is the one going to another team, and the hope would be he would take the cues from Hali and Carlisle about his role on the team.

But it looks like Fred has not changed much in Houston, even after getting paid. Ultimately these guys have gotten paid for their production/play, and they know playing a certain way can get them the numbers they need to get paid.

Might be different for Pascal though if he gets a 5 year max from Indy, as then he won't have the pressure of performing for his next contract, and can play the role the team needs.

The problem with the trade, is that they needed to get better defensively. This really doesn't do much to address that. They should have went after OG, not Pascal.

Like, adding more offense to the #1 offense in the league just totally avoids their major problem. Now, if either Siakam or Hield walk, how do they fix that? It's risky.

[Scase]

The risk to Indy is Pascal slows down their offense, for him to score on his post-ups. At the end of the day, Pascal still needs to produce to get paid his max contract this offseason (whether that is from Indy or another team).

So unless Indy has promised him a max 5 year deal from the start, and are prepared to see Pascal's numbers drop a bit, if he truly fits into their system (as he would probably need to take less shots and see his usage drop), then there is a risk Pascal could throw off Indy's offence if he is looking to maintain his current production.

What the Raps have been defined by these last few seasons on offence with FVV and Pascal leading the charge, is horrible ball movement and heavy iso play. That is done clearly for a reason by those players, as that is how they get their numbers and get paid. Reason Masai called it out last year.

Indy doesn't play that way. Pascal fills a lot of gaps for the Pacers (size and speed up front and inside scoring), but if his game comes at the expense of the Pacers overall style of play on O, I don't know if they resign him to the max 5 year deal.

The fact that the Pacers traded away so little of their current young assets leads me to think they are hedging their bets on Pascal.

That's the thing though, the Raptors played that way. And that was how the team was built, so that's what he did. Siakam is great in transition, he's also not the defacto #1 in IND like he was in TOR, so there's no "this is my team" mentality and he will fit into the team rather than the inverse.

Carlisle is a really good coach, and I have no doubt he will fit in like a glove.

It definitely helps that Pascal is the one going to another team, and the hope would be he would take the cues from Hali and Carlisle about his role on the team.

But it looks like Fred has not changed much in Houston, even after getting paid. Ultimately these guys have gotten paid for their production/play, and they know playing a certain way can get them the numbers they need to get paid.

Might be different for Pascal though if he gets a 5 year max from Indy, as then he won't have the pressure of performing for his next contract, and can play the role the team needs.

I think the situations are different though. FVV came in as a stop gap to help stabilize the ship and mentor the young ones. The pacers are already doing well, and need better options on the team, and some defence, assuming Siakam can get back to playing it.

Siakam is seemingly being picked up to be in the long term plans, FVV is definitely temporary.

[JB7]

That's the thing though, the Raptors played that way. And that was how the team was built, so that's what he did. Siakam is great in transition, he's also not the defacto #1 in IND like he was in TOR, so there's no "this is my team" mentality and he will fit into the team rather than the inverse.

Carlisle is a really good coach, and I have no doubt he will fit in like a glove.

It definitely helps that Pascal is the one going to another team, and the hope would be he would take the cues from Hali and Carlisle about his role on the team.

But it looks like Fred has not changed much in Houston, even after getting paid. Ultimately these guys have gotten paid for their production/play, and they know playing a certain way can get them the numbers they need to get paid.

Might be different for Pascal though if he gets a 5 year max from Indy, as then he won't have the pressure of performing for his next contract, and can play the role the team needs.

I think the situations are different though. FVV came in as a stop gap to help stabilize the ship and mentor the young ones. The pacers are already doing well, and need better options on the team, and some defence, assuming Siakam can get back to playing it.

Siakam is seemingly being picked up to be in the long term plans, FVV is definitely temporary.

Fred is definitely a 2 year stop gap. But how many years do you think the Pacers reasonably expect Pascal to be playing at a high level. He is turning 30 in April. Maybe 3 more years of all-star level?

I think Pascal is also a temporary filler piece for the Pacers until their younger guys (Mathurin and Walker) develop into the roles.

Pascal is there because Hali wants help now, and is not prepared to wait for the younger guys to develop.

[JB7]

That's the thing though, the Raptors played that way. And that was how the team was built, so that's what he did. Siakam is great in transition, he's also not the defacto #1 in IND like he was in TOR, so there's no "this is my team" mentality and he will fit into the team rather than the inverse.

Carlisle is a really good coach, and I have no doubt he will fit in like a glove.

It definitely helps that Pascal is the one going to another team, and the hope would be he would take the cues from Hali and Carlisle about his role on the team.

But it looks like Fred has not changed much in Houston, even after getting paid. Ultimately these guys have gotten paid for their production/play, and they know playing a certain way can get them the numbers they need to get paid.

Might be different for Pascal though if he gets a 5 year max from Indy, as then he won't have the pressure of performing for his next contract, and can play the role the team needs.

The problem with the trade, is that they needed to get better defensively. This really doesn't do much to address that. They should have went after OG, not Pascal.

Like, adding more offense to the #1 offense in the league just totally avoids their major problem. Now, if either Siakam or Hield walk, how do they fix that? It's risky.

It is their style of play that leads to the horrible D. OG wasn’t going to change that. Better to double down on their strength.

And it is not significantly risky for the Pacers, if Hield and Siakam walk. They have the younger guys to fill in. The only way those two walk is if the Pacers are not willing to pay them, and I could only see that being the case if the team bombs out of the playoffs.

[Scase]

It definitely helps that Pascal is the one going to another team, and the hope would be he would take the cues from Hali and Carlisle about his role on the team.

But it looks like Fred has not changed much in Houston, even after getting paid. Ultimately these guys have gotten paid for their production/play, and they know playing a certain way can get them the numbers they need to get paid.

Might be different for Pascal though if he gets a 5 year max from Indy, as then he won't have the pressure of performing for his next contract, and can play the role the team needs.

I think the situations are different though. FVV came in as a stop gap to help stabilize the ship and mentor the young ones. The pacers are already doing well, and need better options on the team, and some defence, assuming Siakam can get back to playing it.

Siakam is seemingly being picked up to be in the long term plans, FVV is definitely temporary.

Fred is definitely a 2 year stop gap. But how many years do you think the Pacers reasonably expect Pascal to be playing at a high level. He is turning 30 in April. Maybe 3 more years of all-star level?

I think Pascal is also a temporary filler piece for the Pacers until their younger guys (Mathurin and Walker) develop into the roles.

Pascal is there because Hali wants help now, and is not prepared to wait for the younger guys to develop.

Maybe he's only got 3 years left in him, but the pacers seem pretty confident they will be re-signing him, and there is no reason for him to take a 3y deal, we allegedly offered him a 3/120 and he turned it down.

Pacers are giving him at least a 4 year. Hali is 24 so Siakam fits in reasonably well with his prime starting, worst case maybe they flip Siakam with a year or 2 left on his contract to another contender, hard to say. Siakam lets them get some playoff wins, maybe even a round. While mentoring the younger guys, all while satiating Halis demand for a #2.