Woj: Raptors trade Pascal Siakam to Pacers for Bruce Brown, Jordan Nwora, Kira Lewis and 3 first round picks

[Thaddy]

Ok, so this is a home run from the Pacers. They did not lose any good young players and also did not lose any good FRPs. And they get a legit #2 who is a great match for their team. Now they can make a run of #1b with all their assets, and if succeed then go for the championship. Pacers knew Siakam was signing with them 100% whether before the trade deadline or in the off-season. I suspect a colluding here between Siakam and the Pacers. Raptors hands were tied. I saw that tweet that they did try to get any 1 young player from Pacers but failed. But the Raptors fans should not hold their breath that NBA will investigate and punish the Pacers. Raptors are the only NBA team outside of USA and they should be forever grateful for it. These things happen; move on.

Not getting the conspiracy theory here. If the Raptors 'hands were tied' then why was the return so good? 3 1sts and a really valuable guy in Bruce Brown was more than most expected for a guy who was either leaving soon or going to cost more than a rebuilding team wanted to pay him. If there was truly some collusion going on--e.g. Siakam saying 'only trade me to Indy or I'll make things messy'--you'd expect maybe half of that.

LOL that poster just making up facts. No player forces their way into markets like Indiana or Toronto. He said he wanted to be a Raptor his whole career after the trade.

There's a strong chance he leaves for the Sixers, Pistons, or another team. He wants to test free agency.

[CpttCanada]

Why are the votes overwhelming in favor for Pacers winning this trade?

I voted even.

If you are the Raptors, what more do you want for him?

This is what I'm saying. Pascal is going to get a supermax contract and he isn't even worth a max contract. I love the guy but he isn't on the level of someone who is going to carry you to a championship but he will get paid for it. The Raptors said hell no to that and the Pacers said yes. I don't understand what the other brain dead people on this forum are talking about.

[WentzerWuver]

Why are the votes overwhelming in favor for Pacers winning this trade?

I voted even.

If you are the Raptors, what more do you want for him?

This is what I'm saying. Pascal is going to get a supermax contract and he isn't even worth a max contract. I love the guy but he isn't on the level of someone who is going to carry you to a championship but he will get paid for it. The Raptors said hell no to that and the Pacers said yes. I don't understand what the other brain dead people on this forum are talking about.

Pascal is 3x better than OG, so he is a supermax in my book. You just jealous cos he's not on your team Lol

[Tacoma]

Why are the votes overwhelming in favor for Pacers winning this trade?

I voted even.

If you are the Raptors, what more do you want for him?

This is what I'm saying. Pascal is going to get a supermax contract and he isn't even worth a max contract. I love the guy but he isn't on the level of someone who is going to carry you to a championship but he will get paid for it. The Raptors said hell no to that and the Pacers said yes. I don't understand what the other brain dead people on this forum are talking about.

In order for Siakam to be eligible for the SuperMax, he will either have to win DPOY or make All-NBA this year. Given we are already halfway through the season and he’s not near getting either, it will be highly unlikely he’ll become eligible.

[Sixerscan]

Why are the votes overwhelming in favor for Pacers winning this trade?

I voted even.

If you are the Raptors, what more do you want for him?

This is what I'm saying. Pascal is going to get a supermax contract and he isn't even worth a max contract. I love the guy but he isn't on the level of someone who is going to carry you to a championship but he will get paid for it. The Raptors said hell no to that and the Pacers said yes. I don't understand what the other brain dead people on this forum are talking about.

In order for Siakam to be eligible for the SuperMax, he will either have to win DPOY or make All-NBA this year. Given we are already halfway through the season and he’s not near getting either, it will be highly unlikely he’ll become eligible.

Either way with how many years he’s played you can’t get more than your normal max unless you’re still with the team that drafted you.

That said his normal max is still 5/250+ which is plenty for Pascal Siakam

[Sixerscan]

Speaking of, assuming Halliburton makes an all nba team (which seems a given barring injury), the Pacers are presumably about to commit on average $100+ million per year to Siakam and Halliburton over the next 5 seasons. The Pacers haven’t paid the luxury tax since 2005, and even then it was a pretty small payment. It’ll be interesting to see how much they’re willing to commit to keep depth around them.

[pbernardi]

Why are the votes overwhelming in favor for Pacers winning this trade?

I voted even.

If you are the Raptors, what more do you want for him?

This is what I'm saying. Pascal is going to get a supermax contract and he isn't even worth a max contract. I love the guy but he isn't on the level of someone who is going to carry you to a championship but he will get paid for it. The Raptors said hell no to that and the Pacers said yes. I don't understand what the other brain dead people on this forum are talking about.

In order for Siakam to be eligible for the SuperMax, he will either have to win DPOY or make All-NBA this year. Given we are already halfway through the season and he’s not near getting either, it will be highly unlikely he’ll become eligible.

No, a player only can receive supermax in the team he receive its rookie contract. Once Siakam was traded, he is not elegible to supermax anymore in any case.

[Sixers in 4]

Raptors are all over the place what a disaster for them.

The OG trade wasn't for picks but for a future RFA and Barrett. They then move Siakam for picks and a negative value contract in Brown (20M over the next two years for 5-10M production) makes sense in a vacuum but not after the OG trade.

Whatever you think of the trades and I like the Siakam deal what its clear the Rapots lack most is direction

Lol nope.

Scottie. Barnes.

The deals, especially the NY made a ton of sense. Finally got a lead guard and got a supporting cast member in RJ who's so far thriving in a new system.

Siakam deal scooped flexibility to make further moves or draft. Shoulda dealt him last year but they still got decent value for an expiring.

We re-built our squad in less than 2 months where we now have a ton of upside.

Also I mean Brown has a team option next year, effectively making him an expiring. We were ass before the trades, looking to sign Siakam to the max and have OG also make big money..... what direction were the Raptors supposed to go? Trade Siakam for SGA plus all their 1sts?

Get Embiid for OG?

Pick a direction.

Either trade OG and Siakam for picks or package them to try and get better. Instead you went halfsies essentially dipping one foot into the deep end. It was like trading for poeltl while not moving FVV or Lowry but moving other guys. Masai is an excellent drafter but when it comes to executing and developing some sort of 3-5 year plan he sucks.

Removing my thoughts on the trade and who won what. What exactly is the raptor plan. They have about 14 players who can play and compete for minutes one quasi star. Where do you see the path to contention? Here is what I see happening I see more guys leaving for nothing next year because no team is going to pay 14 guys and there are other teams with two established stars with a lack of depth who can use those guys in their rotation.

[Johnny Bball]

Why are the votes overwhelming in favor for Pacers winning this trade?

I voted even.

If you are the Raptors, what more do you want for him?

Some(not all) Raptors fans convinced themselves they’d get full value for him regardless of his contract situation.

This is true. I didn't think his salary demands would impact it that much but it did. The trade seemed short by one of their younger players.

I would have loved a pick in 25 but don't think they could have done that and NO team is trading a 2025 pick now it seems. We will see at the deadline but I suspect the number will be zero 2025 picks traded. If so, someone got fleeced.

[Sixers in 4]

Why are the votes overwhelming in favor for Pacers winning this trade?

I voted even.

If you are the Raptors, what more do you want for him?

Some(not all) Raptors fans convinced themselves they’d get full value for him regardless of his contract situation.

This is true. I didn't think his salary demands would impact it that much but it did. The trade seemed short by one of their younger players.

It's also when you moved him.

If you moved him last year you would have given a team time to negotiate an extension. It not only affected Siakam but also OG. Lets be real Masai badly mismanaged both assets if he wasn't going to bring either back they should have been moved last year.

[Johnny Bball]

His fit concerns me.

There are a lot of elements that the Pacers lack and Siakam will definitely help in those areas.

That said, his lack of shooting is a real concern. The Pacers have one of the best offenses the league has ever seen, in part, because everyone on the floor is a threat to shoot the ball. Take that away and how much of the Pacers flow is disrupted?

This isn’t me knocking Siakam, who is a great player, would put up big stats, and help the Pacers in a lot of ways, moreso just wondering how his lack of a shot would potentially effect the Pacers offense and what they do.

You know what's trash about this opinion? Pacers had a 6'4" SF in Bruce Brown who's shooting 32% from 3 this year. They are sending him AWAY, replacing him with 6'9" SF/PF and a 33% career shooter from 3 who's also a MUCH BETTER front court player, a paint finisher that Brown isn't, much better defender than Brown is, and says PASCAL isn't going to FIT!!!!!

utter trash!!!

Spoiler:

Siakam isn't a good defender.....he's been a poor/lazy defender for ~3 seasons now.

One season now is probably more appropriate. I think the idea of fouling out was never going to happen in a contract year.

[Johnny Bball]

Some(not all) Raptors fans convinced themselves they’d get full value for him regardless of his contract situation.

This is true. I didn't think his salary demands would impact it that much but it did. The trade seemed short by one of their younger players.

It's also when you moved him.

If you moved him last year you would have given a team time to negotiate an extension. It not only affected Siakam but also OG. Lets be real Masai badly mismanaged both assets if he wasn't going to bring either back they should have been moved last year.

They can sign him to an extension right now, and Raptors could have before they traded him. Look, the Raptors didn't want to max him for 5 years and offered 3. It obviously wasn't enough and I can see that. And no, Ujiri flat out stated that last year the returns were similar.

They've been talking to Indy for about a year. Do you think Indy had lets say Mathurin or Walker/that pick included (difference between good trade and this "bad" trade), then somewhere along the line changed that and that in the summer that wouldn't have been a yes form Toronto. That Indy didn't say we will have to pull one of the table in summer and they couldn't make a deal with nobody else close? Come on. I beleive Ujiri here.

Its all speculation that it could have been more, and not good speculation. The reality is the team they traded with had to have 1) large salaries or cap space to trade, and Toronto had to have use for that one big salary 2) young players and picks 3) been competetive to need Siakam 4) had no cap problems and could fit Siakams max demands for 2 years until that contract doesn't look or feel bad.

That really whittles down the market when half the league has traded their picks away for the near future. ATL (except for cap problems), OKC, Indy, Maybe ORL. SAC didn't have the salaries without gutting their depth and had few picks to add but their own. NYK took OG instead. I think its been only ATL and Indy and that ATL was never close considering they would not trade they 2023 pick and then decided they would never trade Bufkin (which is just funny). Portland was probably close, but Dame said he wouldn't come to Toronto and Portland pivoted opposite direction, and so did Toronto. GSW would not give up their youth and their two tiered plan for whatever reason.

People and talking heads saying they could have got a lot more just haven't though it out. Raptors could have gotten a little more maybe holding out to the deadline. But that screws the idea of the rest of the deadline up for Toronto and they risk the idea of Indy pivoting and it being even worse, because the market for Siakam is small. Toronto blinked, but its not as far apart as people think.

PS, lol at affecting OG. OG's plan was always to go to New York and that was apparent after. And extending OG was never possible. and the return for OG was great.

[Green Backpack]

Ok, so this is a home run from the Pacers. They did not lose any good young players and also did not lose any good FRPs. And they get a legit #2 who is a great match for their team. Now they can make a run of #1b with all their assets, and if succeed then go for the championship.

Pacers knew Siakam was signing with them 100% whether before the trade deadline or in the off-season. I suspect a colluding here between Siakam and the Pacers. Raptors hands were tied. I saw that tweet that they did try to get any 1 young player from Pacers but failed. But the Raptors fans should not hold their breath that NBA will investigate and punish the Pacers. Raptors are the only NBA team outside of USA and they should be forever grateful for it. These things happen; move on.

I wouldn't be so sure that Spicy P is a lock to re-sign (at least I didn't get those vibes from reading his Players Tribute post). I think there's still a lot of smoke to uniting with Embiid in Philly and reuniting with Nurse.

[srhcan]

Why are the votes overwhelming in favor for Pacers winning this trade?

I voted even.

If you are the Raptors, what more do you want for him?

The trade was a disaster for Raptors if we are being honest. Its laughable that some people voted that Toronto won this trade.

First, the trade itself: Folks around the league believe the Raptors could've traded Siakam for significantly more last season than the package they received Wednesday, containing Bruce Brown, Jordan Nwora, Kira Lewis Jr., Indiana's 2024 and 2026 (top-four protected) first-round draft picks and the worst 2024 first-round draft pick from the Houston Rockets, Los Angeles Clippers, Oklahoma City Thunder or Utah Jazz.

While that might sound like a significant haul, there were whispers that the two 2024 first-round picks are more window dressing than they appear, given that this year's draft is considered to be the weakest in years.

Or, as one source told Yahoo Sports, "The worst draft maybe ever."

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-fact-or-fiction-the-fallout-from-the-pascal-siakam-deal-extends-into-the-leagues-future-210852698.html

On top of that the Raptors send Kira Lewis to G League while Jordan Nwora is not in their plans. So basically they were salary fillers. The trade was only for Bruce Brown and 3 FRPs (2 of those FRPs are in the worst draft ever).

I think this is the worst trade Masai & Bobby company has ever completed. And they have a share of really bad trades (Thad, Poetl etc.) in the past but this one take the cake.

[XTC]

Ok, so this is a home run from the Pacers. They did not lose any good young players and also did not lose any good FRPs. And they get a legit #2 who is a great match for their team. Now they can make a run of #1b with all their assets, and if succeed then go for the championship.

Pacers knew Siakam was signing with them 100% whether before the trade deadline or in the off-season. I suspect a colluding here between Siakam and the Pacers. Raptors hands were tied. I saw that tweet that they did try to get any 1 young player from Pacers but failed. But the Raptors fans should not hold their breath that NBA will investigate and punish the Pacers. Raptors are the only NBA team outside of USA and they should be forever grateful for it. These things happen; move on.

I wouldn't be so sure that Spicy P is a lock to re-sign (at least I didn't get those vibes from reading his Players Tribute post). I think there's still a lot of smoke to uniting with Embiid in Philly and reuniting with Nurse.

Siakam and Nurse where not exactly best friends during the end of Nurse's tenure here. Called him out multiple times.

[greekman]

overpaid players don't have much value. go figure.

[YogurtProducer]

Ok, so this is a home run from the Pacers. They did not lose any good young players and also did not lose any good FRPs. And they get a legit #2 who is a great match for their team. Now they can make a run of #1b with all their assets, and if succeed then go for the championship.

Pacers knew Siakam was signing with them 100% whether before the trade deadline or in the off-season. I suspect a colluding here between Siakam and the Pacers. Raptors hands were tied. I saw that tweet that they did try to get any 1 young player from Pacers but failed. But the Raptors fans should not hold their breath that NBA will investigate and punish the Pacers. Raptors are the only NBA team outside of USA and they should be forever grateful for it. These things happen; move on.

I wouldn't be so sure that Spicy P is a lock to re-sign (at least I didn't get those vibes from reading his Players Tribute post). I think there's still a lot of smoke to uniting with Embiid in Philly and reuniting with Nurse.

Siakam and Nurse where not exactly best friends during the end of Nurse's tenure here. Called him out multiple times.

Yeah they had more tension than any other player.

[Tor_Raps]

Trade was horrible for the Raptors when it was announced and I still feel that's the case. You put yourself in a crappy position with 0 leverage then this is what happens.