Do you have a build around Coby & Pat plan?

sco · Post #1 » by **sco** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 2:56 pm

Not exactly a rebuild, but I see some promise in those two, so we wouldn't be starting exactly from scratch. If those two are the "new core", how would you build a team around them?

For this thread, I'm fine if you want to keep any/all of the mid-3 in your plan.

Post #2 » by **coldfish** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 3:00 pm

Hey, I have a steering wheel and a tire. How can I build a car with it?

On their upsides, Pat and Coby are probably 3rd and 4th bananas on a contending team. You don't really build around 3rd and 4th bananas.

The general question is: How can Chicago get a top 5 player to build around?

My answer with the current "no rebuild" mentality: I have no idea

Capspace: No
Trade: No, the Bulls will never have the assets to trump every other team in the NBA for a trade if a top 5 player comes available
Draft: No. Outside of absurd luck where you get a great player in the middle of the draft or drop down from 13 to 2 in the lottery, its not happening.

aguifs · Post #3 » by **aguifs** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 3:10 pm

Call Steve Kerr. Tell him Zach and Caruso wil give him a chip. Get Kuminga, Klay and a future first.

Waive Klay.

Test the market for Vucevic.

I wouldn't be in a hurry to add salary for DDR. So let him walk or try to sign for cheap next season.

Build from there.

MrSparkle · Post #4 » by **MrSparkle** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 3:28 pm

One thing that’s for certain, is AK won’t settle for mediocrity.

League Circles · Post #5 » by **League Circles** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 3:33 pm

The only meaning to the phrase "build around" is when you have an absolutely elite player (at least top 5 in the league) and by "build around" you mean that you very deliberately choose players primarily based on how they complement the skills of your top guy.

Now days, players are all so versatile that the concept doesn't really have any meaning any more.

I'm as big of a Patrick fan as anyone but the idea that there is a strategy to build around him just doesn't hold water. He's not even a starter in his 4th year and very well may be an MLE bench player for the "prime" of his career.

MrSparkle · Post #6 » by **MrSparkle** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 3:36 pm

IMO this FO has drastically undervalued shooting. If they continue going into year 5 of their build with raw 19% 3P prospects, thinking a shooting coach will get this thing rolling, then they’re gonna continue seeing a team that struggles to be better than 25th in offense.

Coby and Pat can shoot, but they still don’t shoot consistently well. They’re just about our best shooters, short of 6’1 Jevon who can’t buy a minute anymore. I’ve got a 12 month time clock for them to address this, otherwise, I’m sincerely done with the Bulls. When Arturas said he planned on making a fun team to watch that ran, passed and shot well, he amazingly lied about all 3 things.

This is the first year in my life that I have just skipped on almost every single Bulls game and not bothered to even follow up on highlights or box scores. I’ll tune in for 5 minutes, and if Coby/Ayo are having a nice game I’ll stick around, but otherwise, this is just the saltiest basketball product around. I honestly prefer watching Poole and Kuzma atleast make a cartoon out of the game.

The idea of developing athletic lanky prospects is nice and all, but we have 3/4 of the roster incapable of making a wide open 3. Re-balance your theory. Man.

ShouldaPaidBG · Post #7 » by **ShouldaPaidBG** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 3:48 pm

Yes

Ayo
Coby
Pat
Terry
a young center that can bite the rim

Roll the ball out there without roadblock coworkers and they'll figure it out.

GoBlue72391 · Post #8 » by **GoBlue72391** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 3:54 pm

ShouldaPaidBG wrote:Yes

Ayo
Coby
Pat
Terry
a young center that can bite the rim

Roll the ball out there without roadblock coworkers and they'll figure it out.

That's a 15 win team.

Post #9 » by **Ice Man** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 3:56 pm

coldfish wrote:Hey, I have a steering wheel and a tire. How can I build a car with it?

On their upsides, Pat and Coby are probably 3rd and 4th bananas on a contending team. You don't really build around 3rd and 4th bananas.

The general question is: How can Chicago get a top 5 player to build around?

My answer with the current "no rebuild" mentality: I have no idea

Capspace: No
Trade: No, the Bulls will never have the assets to trump every other team in the NBA for a trade if a top 5 player comes available
Draft: No. Outside of absurd luck where you get a great player in the middle of the draft or drop down from 13 to 2 in the lottery, its not happening.

You wrote my post. To contend, we need a Top 5 Player, a Top 20 player, the past 6 weeks' version of Coby, a better version of Pat than we have ever had, and 4 additional guys who are championship quality rotatational players.

GetBuLLish · Post #10 » by **GetBuLLish** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 4:06 pm

I'm not sure the league would allow the Bulls to build around such a dominant core. Bad for ratings when the champion is predetermined before the season even starts.

ChettheJet · Post #11 » by **ChettheJet** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 4:19 pm

I think I'd say 'stick around' before build around. I just don't have names to fill in the empty spaces I want to create because there's no predicting what might come back in trades. I want to see PWill rebound, but to my eyes watching the games that requires 1 or 2 other players to be willing to cover along the perimeter and on offense get back on defense which is PWill's primary job, covering for Zach and Demar and not offensive rebounding.

Without knowing who would want DeRozan at the deadline, or if he does stay is there some other team would do a S&T just like the Bulls did to get him there might be more possibilities than are visible today. trying to trade Lavine to a losing team like DET that just wants some firepower while they get assets. Vuc would need a real defensive unit around him and the Bulls don't have it. Terry still can't play under control and just worships DeRozan a bit too much. Caruso is a luxury for a non contender. Carter should help a playoff team.

Players who decide they don't want to be where they are make a lot of things happen. What if somebody in PHO decides this isn't the group he wants to be around, yell and force a trade. That's puts a whole lot of other players in the trade mix. If Siakam's people decide they want him in a big market and have no concern about those 3 picks IND gave up, cap space is a good thing.

I don't mind starting with

Coby at the 1 or 2 Dosunmu at the backup PG

Drummond Sanogo as the 3rd center
Patrick at the 3 Phillips
Craig at the backup 4 Taylor

and building with what comes back in trades and FAs
OK they have Bitim and Drell around for a year of experience, are they anywhere near rotation players next year?

Who knows what things look like Feb 9, could be the same in which case the pressure will be on AKME during the summer to make big fixes for a team that maybe made the play in.

GoBlue72391 · Post #12 » by **GoBlue72391** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 4:19 pm

Coby and Pat aren't guys you build around, they're guys you build with.

nekorajo · Post #13 » by **nekorajo** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 4:23 pm

Pat isn't consistent enough to make long term plans around. I would plan to replace him with an actual PF based on his rebounding. I'd give him a look at SF. Contrary to popular belief, PF and SF are not the same.

Assuming Pat works at the 3, I'd support them with a rim protector and 3 and D players. Demar transitions to 6th man on a similar contract or traded. Vuc traded or benched. Zach traded.

prolific passer · Post #14 » by **prolific passer** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 4:52 pm

Yes but involves trading for somebody who can be a #1 option and maybe a few more pieces.

Chi town · Post #15 » by **Chi town** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:16 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:Coby and Pat aren't guys you build around, they're guys you build with.

Exactly.

I maintain that Coby can be a 2nd option. Pat most likely a 4th.

1. Get shooting.

2. Get a real C that can play D.

3. Get a PG that can push pace. DDR and Vuc won’t have any part of pace. Coby can slide over as SG and play backup PG as well.

If AK actually looked to build a winner instead of win now he has plenty of pieces to actually make the turnaround rather quick. Trade DDR and Caruso now, miss the play in, and have a couple younger players and picks to make something happen around the draft.

Stratmaster · Post #16 » by **Stratmaster** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:19 pm

Coby and Pat are the first 2 guys of the bench on a good team. No one should be building around them.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Stratmaster · Post #17 » by **Stratmaster** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:20 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:
ShouldaPaidBG wrote:Yes

Ayo
Coby
Pat
Terry
a young center that can bite the rim

Roll the ball out there without roadblock coworkers and they'll figure it out.
That's a 15 win team.

You're being generous

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

HearshotKDS · Post #18 » by **HearshotKDS** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:32 pm

Coldfish kind of nailed my thoughts, but Coby is a good periphery piece and Pat isnt useless. But you dont build around that. Doesnt mean you let them go for nothing but unless you think any of Demar/Lavine/Vuc are franchise cornerstones the Bulls dont have the most important and hardest to get pieces of a rebuild. Maybe Giannis or Luka fall in love with the mag mile and demand a trade here, the Bulls dont have the cap or draft assets right now to likely get a franchise player so I guess all of the teams eggs are in that basket.

burlydee · Post #19 » by **burlydee** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:34 pm

Absolutely not. Neither guy has proven enough to build around. I have an acquire young talent to replace the big 3 plan who can hopefully mesh with Coby and Pat. in that scenario, who ultimately emerges as the guy is just as likely to come via trade or draft than be on the current roster. Like Coby and Pat are the guys who seem to have taken steps forward this year. But it wouldn't completely shock me if Ayo and Terry are perceived to have more value 3 years down the line. We're still in the development stage for all of them.

The Bulls biggest need is a young guy they can run offense through. Coby is the closest they have to that on the roster. He's just has to prove he can do it consistently. Still think they need someone else. Both those guys (as we know) are the hardest players to acquire.

2weekswithpay · Post #20 » by **2weekswithpay** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:53 pm

People have already said it, Coby and Pat aren't players you build around. With that said I'd like to ask, how good should a player be for building around them to make sense? I know that the goal is to win a championship but let's lower expectations for a bit since getting a top 5 player is extremely unlikely.

Lets say the bare minimum is a team that's in the playoffs every year and has a solid chance of reaching the second round. So a team like the Knicks. The Knicks were the worst team to make it to the second round last season and even if they won't win a title with the current roster, they're too good to even consider stripping the roster down. The Ringer has a top 100 players in the NBA ranking. You don't have to agree with it but it's just a reference. The Knicks' two best players are Brunson (20th) and Randle (46th). So you would need at least 2 top 50 players with one of them being in the top 30.

Does anybody see Coby or Pat becoming top 50 players in the NBA?