GOAT 1v1 player (C Edition)

[McBubbles]

Everyone recognizes the importance of size in the 1v1 point guard thread but then pick the smallest guy in the 1v1 center thread.
I think Sabonis or Embiid should win this since they are big enough to bang with Wilt and Shaq but they can also shoot 3s. And in case people don't realize how big he is, here is Sabonis against Hakeem:

Watch on YouTube

This is more than Luka vs Curry size difference:

SABONIS IS HUGE WTF

I knew he was 7'4 but I thought he was a typical NBA lanky 7'4. He makes Dream look like a child holy ****. Look at the size of his head compared to Hakeem's my goodness. Hakeem is slightly further away from the camera but still.

[70sFan]

It's definitely not Wilt, who's post game was rather primitive. It's not Embiid because you don't get free throws in One on One.

I'd say Hakeem #1, Shaq #2 and Kareem #3. The difference between Hakeem's GOAT level post defence and the others is imo larger than the difference between their GOAT level shot making ability over Hakeem. Now that I think about it Hakeem very well might be the best one on one player of all time.

What's primitive in Wilt's post game compared to Hakeem? They relied heavily on the same go-to move and Hakeem leveraged it even more than Chamberlain.

Hakeem's lack of size would be concerning in one on one situation. He's excellent man defender mostly because of his quickness and hands, he could overplay his man very effectively in match situation. It wouldn't matter in this scenario though.

I got the feeling you'd reply because of my Wilt comment

In my mind Wilt's iso scoring ability is worse than Kareem or Shaq's whilst his man to man D is worse than Hakeem's, so whilst his iso scoring might be better than Hakeem's in an actual in game basis his 1-1 defence isn't enough to bridge the gap in this hypothetical. That and Hakeem has superior handles to Wilt and could hit shots from further out, which I think would be of great benefit in a game of 1-1.

And I don't see why his size would be a problem. He's an inch shorter than Shaq and 3 inches shorter than Kareem or Wilt whilst seemingly not giving up much in terms of length or strength. I think Hakeem would match up better with Wilt or Shaq than the reverse. Kareem would give him the most problems, but I think Hakeem can score on Kareem easier than the opposite.

Handles and range are good points, I disagree that Wilt is a worse man defender in a one on one situation.

Regarding size, Hakeem wasn't a true 7 footer and it's evident when you watch him against Shaq that he's significantly smaller. Hakeem struggled quite a bit to contain Shaq simply because he didn't have enough bulk and length to bother Shaq shots.

About Kareem - we can't say for sure but in NBA game situations Hakeem was highly ineffective against Kareem. Granted, Hakeem wasn't at his defensive peak then but Jabbar was much more capable iso scorer when he was younger as well.

[McBubbles]

What's primitive in Wilt's post game compared to Hakeem? They relied heavily on the same go-to move and Hakeem leveraged it even more than Chamberlain.

Hakeem's lack of size would be concerning in one on one situation. He's excellent man defender mostly because of his quickness and hands, he could overplay his man very effectively in match situation. It wouldn't matter in this scenario though.

I got the feeling you'd reply because of my Wilt comment

In my mind Wilt's iso scoring ability is worse than Kareem or Shaq's whilst his man to man D is worse than Hakeem's, so whilst his iso scoring might be better than Hakeem's in an actual in game basis his 1-1 defence isn't enough to bridge the gap in this hypothetical. That and Hakeem has superior handles to Wilt and could hit shots from further out, which I think would be of great benefit in a game of 1-1.

And I don't see why his size would be a problem. He's an inch shorter than Shaq and 3 inches shorter than Kareem or Wilt whilst seemingly not giving up much in terms of length or strength. I think Hakeem would match up better with Wilt or Shaq than the reverse. Kareem would give him the most problems, but I think Hakeem can score on Kareem easier than the opposite.

Handles and range are good points, I disagree that Wilt is a worse man defender in a one on one situation.

Regarding size, Hakeem wasn't a true 7 footer and it's evident when you watch him against Shaq that he's significantly smaller. Hakeem struggled quite a bit to contain Shaq simply because he didn't have enough bulk and length to bother Shaq shots.

About Kareem - we can't say for sure but in NBA game situations Hakeem was highly ineffective against Kareem. Granted, Hakeem wasn't at his defensive peak then but Jabbar was much more capable iso scorer when he was younger as well.

Not even gonna lie; I forgot about this Which is extra embarrassing because I did a write up about how impressive Kareem's defence was on Hakeem just this week. Oops.

And now I think about it more, I think I might just be overrating Hakeem's defence because of his absolute obliteration of Ewing. That was the first thing I thought of, but Ewing wasn't a particularly good scorer compared to his historical peers anyway. Hakeem didn't come close to showcasing these abilities against Shaq or even David Robinson, who was also known for not having a particularly resilient post season offence. Relative to scoring talent, I think Kareem's defence on Hakeem is likely more impressive than anything Hakeem did and he wasn't even in his prime at that point.

Kareem #1

Did Wilt have any notable one on one defensive performances?

[capfan33]

I got the feeling you'd reply because of my Wilt comment

In my mind Wilt's iso scoring ability is worse than Kareem or Shaq's whilst his man to man D is worse than Hakeem's, so whilst his iso scoring might be better than Hakeem's in an actual in game basis his 1-1 defence isn't enough to bridge the gap in this hypothetical. That and Hakeem has superior handles to Wilt and could hit shots from further out, which I think would be of great benefit in a game of 1-1.

And I don't see why his size would be a problem. He's an inch shorter than Shaq and 3 inches shorter than Kareem or Wilt whilst seemingly not giving up much in terms of length or strength. I think Hakeem would match up better with Wilt or Shaq than the reverse. Kareem would give him the most problems, but I think Hakeem can score on Kareem easier than the opposite.

Handles and range are good points, I disagree that Wilt is a worse man defender in a one on one situation.

Regarding size, Hakeem wasn't a true 7 footer and it's evident when you watch him against Shaq that he's significantly smaller. Hakeem struggled quite a bit to contain Shaq simply because he didn't have enough bulk and length to bother Shaq shots.

About Kareem - we can't say for sure but in NBA game situations Hakeem was highly ineffective against Kareem. Granted, Hakeem wasn't at his defensive peak then but Jabbar was much more capable iso scorer when he was younger as well.

Not even gonna lie; I forgot about this Which is extra embarrassing because I did a write up about how impressive Kareem's defence was on Hakeem just this week. Oops.

And now I think about it more, I think I might just be overrating Hakeem's defence because of his absolute obliteration of Ewing. That was the first thing I thought of, but Ewing wasn't a particularly good scorer compared to his historical peers anyway. Hakeem didn't come close to showcasing these abilities against Shaq or even David Robinson, who was also known for not having a particularly resilient post season offence. Relative to scoring talent, I think Kareem's defence on Hakeem is likely more impressive than anything Hakeem did and he wasn't even in his prime at that point.

Kareem #1

Did Wilt have any notable one on one defensive performances?

Against Kareem in 71 and specifically 72. Thurmond in 67, usually limited Russell quite a bit. Admittedly didn't have a huge sample against elite scoring centers in the playoffs because he was just playing Russell all the time.

[70sFan]

Not even gonna lie; I forgot about this Which is extra embarrassing because I did a write up about how impressive Kareem's defence was on Hakeem just this week. Oops.

I'm going to share highlights from Kareem's career high against Hakeem soon.

And now I think about it more, I think I might just be overrating Hakeem's defence because of his absolute obliteration of Ewing. That was the first thing I thought of, but Ewing wasn't a particularly good scorer compared to his historical peers anyway. Hakeem didn't come close to showcasing these abilities against Shaq or even David Robinson, who was also known for not having a particularly resilient post season offence.

Indeed, even though Hakeem outplayed the two, it's not the case of him slowing them down. He actually wasn't super effective against Shaq, especially when the Magic succeed at giving Shaq the ball (which would be the case in one on one).

Did Wilt have any notable one on one defensive performances?

The most notable ones are from 1971 and 1972 WCFs when he made Kareem's life extremely tough.

Less known one is from 1968 ECSF, where he slowed down Bellamy considerably. We only have a few clips from that series, but they show quite a few blocks on Walt.

Wilt's relative weakness is his unwillingness to step outside the paint, but I don't think that would be a problem in one on one situation and his immense length combined with strength and athleticism would make him a very tough player to score on.

[Gregoire]

1. Hakeem
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Shaq