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Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19

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Re: Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19 

Post#261 » by Fierce1 » Sun Jan 21, 2024 1:46 am

fallguy wrote:
Fierce1 wrote:
fallguy wrote:
How much is there to say about obliterating the Spurs?

Not just against the Spurs.

It's true that when the Cs win, the threads are shorter.

And when the Cs lose, the threads are longer.


Who cares?

Just an observation.

Apparently people just love to whine.
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Re: Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19 

Post#262 » by fallguy » Sun Jan 21, 2024 1:47 am

Fierce1 wrote:
fallguy wrote:If the C's flame out this year the way they flamed out last year, Joe is gone. And so is Jaylen.

If they lose because of a KP injury or in game 7 of the Finals, he's probably back.

That's fair.

I still believe the Cs should have fired Joe immediately after that Miami series.


On that we agree completely.
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Re: Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19 

Post#263 » by fallguy » Sun Jan 21, 2024 1:48 am

Fierce1 wrote:
fallguy wrote:
Fierce1 wrote:Not just against the Spurs.

It's true that when the Cs win, the threads are shorter.

And when the Cs lose, the threads are longer.


Who cares?

Just an observation.

Apparently people just love to whine.


I don't think this thread is filled with whining.
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Re: Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19 

Post#264 » by Fierce1 » Sun Jan 21, 2024 1:50 am

fallguy wrote:
Fierce1 wrote:
fallguy wrote:
Who cares?

Just an observation.

Apparently people just love to whine.


I don't think this thread is filled with whining.

Guess that depends on your whine tolerance.
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Re: Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19 

Post#265 » by fallguy » Sun Jan 21, 2024 1:51 am

Fierce1 wrote:
fallguy wrote:
Fierce1 wrote:Just an observation.

Apparently people just love to whine.


I don't think this thread is filled with whining.

Guess that depends on your whine tolerance.


It's low.
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Re: Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19 

Post#266 » by GrandTheftRondo » Sun Jan 21, 2024 2:43 am

zoyathedestroya wrote:Last night was the lowest paced game of all the NBA games played this season, per nba.com. Just 86.0 possessions. Celtics now have two of the lowest paced games this season (W vs. NYK in 11/2023).

Less possessions, less margin for error. In a way, it's surprising we only lost by 2 pts when our top two guys shot really poorly while taking almost half the team's shot attempts (combined 2/17 from 3).

Thought it was a ridiculously slow game and this backs it up.

Played in their hands really.
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Re: Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19 

Post#267 » by GrandTheftRondo » Sun Jan 21, 2024 3:23 am

BRUNiNHO91 wrote:
Bar Fight wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:Why doesn't Joe shake things up with the offense? It's only the 2nd best in the league and also the history of the NBA. It's so obvious to us fans that serious, foundational changes with the offense needs to happen. We even lost our 10th game already.

This feels eerily similar to posts from this time last season


Drop 150 on the Pacers, 140 on the Spurs, 130 on the Pistons but 102 on the Bucks and 100 on the Nuggets. ‘HisToRiCaL OffEnSeeeee durrppp durpppppp’

You are just rewriting history.

There was heaps of criticism and some concern of the team last season because we had some genuinely awful losses from December onwards. The Nets loss and the Cavs loss were awful.

I really don’t get how many coaches you need to see Tatum and Brown play under to accept that they are flawed players which leads to some issues in big pressure games. Dating back to the 2018 ECF game 7 they go on bad scoring droughts because it isn’t always easy for them to score. Tatum is very good and an elite player but in terms of being that guy to go get you a bucket he isn’t as consistent as a LeBron, KD, Luka, Steph etc.
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Re: Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19 

Post#268 » by Fierce1 » Sun Jan 21, 2024 3:29 am

I don't know about JB, but JT is just a matter of time.

Lebron was known as a choker until he finally won it in 2012.

Pressure situations can't be simulated in practice, so JT will have to learn in actual games.
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Re: Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19 

Post#269 » by GrandTheftRondo » Sun Jan 21, 2024 3:49 am

Fierce1 wrote:I don't know about JB, but JT is just a matter of time.

Lebron was known as a choker until he finally won it in 2012.

Pressure situations can't be simulated in practice, so JT will have to learn in actual games.

It’s more that I don’t think Tatum ever gets to that level of ability that LeBron etc display.

He has his moments as we’ve seen against Philly, Milwaukee etc.

But it’s always on the back of him being on fire with his jumper. It’s similar to KD but KD is a 7 foot guy with a better jumper so he’s near unguardable. Tatum has always had to work harder for points.
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Re: Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19 

Post#270 » by Fierce1 » Sun Jan 21, 2024 4:04 am

GrandTheftRondo wrote:
Fierce1 wrote:I don't know about JB, but JT is just a matter of time.

Lebron was known as a choker until he finally won it in 2012.

Pressure situations can't be simulated in practice, so JT will have to learn in actual games.

It’s more that I don’t think Tatum ever gets to that level of agility that LeBron etc display.

He has his moments as we’ve seen against Philly, Milwaukee etc.

But it’s always on the back of him being on fire with his jumper. It’s similar to KD but KD is a 7 foot guy with a better jumper so he’s near unguardable. Tatum has always had to work harder for points.

True.

But I think he'll figure it out.

Tatum's an elite player.

It's just a matter of time.
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Re: Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19 

Post#271 » by GrandTheftRondo » Sun Jan 21, 2024 4:09 am

Fierce1 wrote:
GrandTheftRondo wrote:
Fierce1 wrote:I don't know about JB, but JT is just a matter of time.

Lebron was known as a choker until he finally won it in 2012.

Pressure situations can't be simulated in practice, so JT will have to learn in actual games.

It’s more that I don’t think Tatum ever gets to that level of agility that LeBron etc display.

He has his moments as we’ve seen against Philly, Milwaukee etc.

But it’s always on the back of him being on fire with his jumper. It’s similar to KD but KD is a 7 foot guy with a better jumper so he’s near unguardable. Tatum has always had to work harder for points.

True.

But I think he'll figure it out.

Tatum's an elite player.

It's just a matter of time.

Honestly just needs to play a bit more like Jimmy Butler.

He’s a better player than Butler but what I like about Jimmy is he really picks his spots well as he’s gotten older and he knows when his jumper is off and it’s time to relentlessly attack the hoop and get FTs.

Last night should have been a Tatum shooting 10+ FTs game.
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Re: Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19 

Post#272 » by Fierce1 » Sun Jan 21, 2024 4:20 am

GrandTheftRondo wrote:
Fierce1 wrote:
GrandTheftRondo wrote:It’s more that I don’t think Tatum ever gets to that level of agility that LeBron etc display.

He has his moments as we’ve seen against Philly, Milwaukee etc.

But it’s always on the back of him being on fire with his jumper. It’s similar to KD but KD is a 7 foot guy with a better jumper so he’s near unguardable. Tatum has always had to work harder for points.

True.

But I think he'll figure it out.

Tatum's an elite player.

It's just a matter of time.

Honestly just needs to play a bit more like Jimmy Butler.

He’s a better player than Butler but what I like about Jimmy is he really picks his spots well as he’s gotten older and he knows when his jumper is off and it’s time to relentlessly attack the hoop and get FTs.

Last night should have been a Tatum shooting 10+ FTs game.

Yeah, I think Tatum will become like that as he gets older.

JT's not done with his body.

I think he'll get bigger next season.
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Re: Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19 

Post#273 » by zoyathedestroya » Sun Jan 21, 2024 5:25 am

Totally random **** that I thought to look up:

Celtics record since 2019-20 when Tatum makes less than 5 FTs and less than 3 3FGs: 24-40
Clippers record since 2019-20 when Kawhi makes less than 5 FTs and less than 3 3FGs: 40-27

Celtics record when Tatum scores 20 pts or less, same span: 38-41
Clippers record when Leonard scores 20 pts or less, same span: 33-21
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Re: Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19 

Post#274 » by zoyathedestroya » Sun Jan 21, 2024 2:29 pm

This is where Joe should've gone off-script and started Horford in place of Jrue to start the 2nd half. I think that's when Nuggets made their mini-run and gained momentum. Especially considering Q3 is our achilles heel. Needed to begin that half strong. No one on our starting five can guard Jokic one-on-one. Doubling two or three passes away still results to one pass away from the Joker.

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Re: Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19 

Post#275 » by exculpatory » Sun Jan 21, 2024 3:02 pm

Objectivity wrote:
SuperDeluxe wrote:
Objectivity wrote:AGAIN. Well coached playoff teams WANT JB to shoot these 19 shots.

I don’t understand why our least efficient player is entitled to more shots than White and KP on such a frequent basis.

Keep in mind that White and KP benefit from all the space that the Jays create by just being on the floor. They might not be as efficient without them.


I agree JT’s gravity is off the charts. Pretty underrated on this board. He brings so much to the team even when he misses shots.

JB is another story. Replace him with any role player that can quick hit and make the unselfish play and we will be fine. JB benefits from the gravity of KP and JT but he’s not smart or skilled enough to help us win a championship. His shot profile KILLS us.

A floater is the same amount of points as a highlight dunk. A ball fake to open player for boring lay up is still 2 points. JB just does not have THAT nuance and IQ

If JB came off our bench and shot 10 shots a game I swear I would never talk sh*t again. It kills us that he think he’s the #2 EVERY game


I want that sack of **** gone so badly.
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Re: Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19 

Post#276 » by zoyathedestroya » Sun Jan 21, 2024 3:13 pm

Joe knew they needed a curveball defensively from their (mostly) switch-everything scheme so they're better armed in the upcoming playoffs. Cs don't need a massive overhaul of the #2 offense. Just more "curveballs" but for the other end of the floor so we're better prepped for the postseason. They already added the postups and made an emphasis on crashing the offensive glass.

What's the harm in adding more tweaks to further improve the offense. Better recognition, not only of mismatches, but situations to exploit. Attack the basket more when there's no rim protection (Pacers IST game come to mind and Warriors game w/o Draymond and w/ Lame Looney). Run more against the Nuggets who want to play halfcourt bball. I see nothing wrong with emphasizing the corner threes more when we have several guys who can hit those at a high clip.

In this game, Tatum did stop taking threes after going 1/7 in the first half and mostly drove in crunch time. Problem was, he couldn't make much from 2 either. What happened to KP? He was barely a factor in the 2nd half. He came out firing in Q1.

I'm not gonna poo-poo on our #2 offense. While it is indeed skewed by wins against the dregs of the league, we also unleashed on top 10 defenses like the Knicks, Magic, Rockets, and Clippers (though they were w/o Kawhi). Just keep finding areas to improve. Still up to the players on the floor to read the defense and make the right plays on the fly most of the game no matter how much we demand out of Joe.
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Re: Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19 

Post#277 » by Setshot33 » Sun Jan 21, 2024 3:24 pm

Fierce1 wrote:I don't know about JB, but JT is just a matter of time.

Lebron was known as a choker until he finally won it in 2012.

Pressure situations can't be simulated in practice, so JT will have to learn in actual games.

So all those postseason games that #0 has played in and that this board likes to point to when hyping him up, he really didn't learn anything from them?

That's what's being implied here: he still has to learn how to play in tight games. Either he knows or he's never going to know.

How long does he need? Another year? Four? Ten?
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Re: Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19 

Post#278 » by exculpatory » Sun Jan 21, 2024 3:32 pm

JT is truly an incredibly elite talent w tremendous gravity - but I have been saying forever he does not have enough dog or clutch in him - not enough Paul **** Pierce when it **** matters the most.

#7 is grossly expensive garbage - go try to be a #1 on a losing team somewhere, you BB-IQ-less, TOV machine, foul shooting disaster, delusionally arrogant sack of ****.

Bubbles is ****.

Love DW & KP.

This team is not winning a chip without the addition of a pure shooter or without #7 gone or with Bubbles the moron as one of the worst coaches in NBA history.

PS Murray & Jokic make me think of what Truth & Ticket could have been had they been on the same team in their younger primes & what Kobe & Shaq were in their younger primes. Perfect blends.
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Re: Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19 

Post#279 » by Smart2Nesmith43 » Sun Jan 21, 2024 3:51 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:This is where Joe should've gone off-script and started Horford in place of Jrue to start the 2nd half. I think that's when Nuggets made their mini-run and gained momentum. Especially considering Q3 is our achilles heel. Needed to begin that half strong. No one on our starting five can guard Jokic one-on-one. Doubling two or three passes away still results to one pass away from the Joker.

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Malone treated this like a playoff game from a rotation standpoint: every starter at 37+ minutes, pretty much a 7 man rotation, scrapping the back up centers to go small with Gordon at the five when Jokic rested... Mazzulla didn't.
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Re: Celts Can't Dip The Nuggets! Loss vs DEN 1/19 

Post#280 » by BK_2020 » Sun Jan 21, 2024 4:05 pm

Paul Pierce highlights in "clutch" situations.
2002 ECF game 7, 5-16, 4 TOV, 14 points
2003 2nd Round game 3 (down 2), 8-22
2003 2nd Round game 4 (down 3), 7-24
2004 1st round sweep, shot 34%
2005 1st round G7, lost by 27. 6 TOV
2006 2nd round, win or go home game 5, 5-12, 4 TOV

2008 1st round game 7, 7-20
2008 2nd round game 4, 0-2 in the final 5 minutes.
2008 2nd round game 6, 2 TOVs in the final 5 minutes of a close game, 0-1
2008 Finals game 3 (a 6 point game). 2-14, 1-4 from the field and 2-3 from the line in the final 5 minutes
2008 Finals game 5, 3 TOVs in the last five minutes of a close game
2009 1st round game 1, misses game winning free throw at the end of regulation. 1-5 in OT.
2009 1st round game 6, missed game winning shot at the end of 4th quarter then missed another game winning shot at the end of 1st OT.
2009 1st round game 7, 6-17
2009 2nd Round game 7, 4-13
2010 ECF Game 4, misses game winning shot at the end of regulation, 0-4 in OT
2010 Finals, Game 7. 5-15 , 1-4 with 2 FTs and 1 TOV in the final 5 minutes and 1 second of a game that went down to the wire.

It's really hard to find examples of this guy performing well in big moments. Paul Pierce is one instance where I believe clutch exists.

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