NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread)

[eyeatoma]

As of now there is no redemption arc set for Embiid. He looks like another regular-season sensation similar to Harden and he has the feel of this generation's Ewing -- always the bridesmaid but never the bride.

Ewing was a great player but he lived in the shadows of Jordan and Olajuwon.

Right now, a similar dynamic seems to be playing out with Embiid, Jokic and Giannis.

Tell me was Ewing constantly injured during the playoffs unable to play to his potential?

[Mavrelous]

Tell me was Ewing constantly injured during the playoffs unable to play to his potential?

Every player is injured, it's a long season and by the time you're in deep PO round the team would've played close to 100 games in mere 7 months.
Embiid doesn't underperform in all games, he was good in game 5 against the Celts, you can't pull the injury excuse in game 7.
Celtics lost to the Heat after Tatum rolled his ankle in game 7, you think anyone is excusing the Celts or Tatum for it?

[eyeatoma]

Tell me was Ewing constantly injured during the playoffs unable to play to his potential?

Every player is injured, it's a long season and by the time you're in deep PO round the team would've played close to 100 games in mere 7 months.
Embiid doesn't underperform in all games, he was good in game 5 against the Celts, you can't pull the injury excuse in game 7.
Celtics lost to the Heat after Tatum rolled his ankle in game 7, you think anyone is excusing the Celts or Tatum for it?

That's not true man, no one is playing with a broken eye socket, or a torn meniscus, or a PCL strain that should keep you out for a few months.

This is not some run of the mill ankle sprain, or bad wrist.

Especially for a big man, lower body injuries are severely debilitating. His facial injuries were equally hard to come back from. If anything, the dude should be commended for pushing through. But let it be clear, these are not the usual season long wear and tear things that most deal with.

Part of him underperforming in random games is the fact that the injury isn't healed and you'll have good and bad days. I dont' think everything is attributed to the injury thouhg, he definitely choked in game 7. But I don't think it would have gone 7 games if he was healthy. If he didn't miss the 1st game despite Harden winning it for them, it took him atleast a game to get into the groove.

[QPR]

You literally said you were.done with Embiid until he did.it when it matters after the finals. What has flipped?

[DCasey91]

You literally said you were.done with Embiid until he did.it when it matters after the finals. What has flipped?

Emotional attachment clouds logical reasoning and critical thinking.

[Mavrelous]

Tell me was Ewing constantly injured during the playoffs unable to play to his potential?

Every player is injured, it's a long season and by the time you're in deep PO round the team would've played close to 100 games in mere 7 months.
Embiid doesn't underperform in all games, he was good in game 5 against the Celts, you can't pull the injury excuse in game 7.
Celtics lost to the Heat after Tatum rolled his ankle in game 7, you think anyone is excusing the Celts or Tatum for it?

That's not true man, no one is playing with a broken eye socket, or a torn meniscus, or a PCL strain that should keep you out for a few months.

This is not some run of the mill ankle sprain, or bad wrist.

Especially for a big man, lower body injuries are severely debilitating. His facial injuries were equally hard to come back from. If anything, the dude should be commended for pushing through. But let it be clear, these are not the usual season long wear and tear things that most deal with.

Part of him underperforming in random games is the fact that the injury isn't healed and you'll have good and bad days. I dont' think everything is attributed to the injury thouhg, he definitely choked in game 7. But I don't think it would have gone 7 games if he was healthy. If he didn't miss the 1st game despite Harden winning it for them, it took him atleast a game to get into the groove.

No one plays with torn miniscus, but people play with partial tear, Giannis hyper extended his knee in ECF and came back to the finals.
He played well in game 5, his team beat the Celtics in Boston w/o him, he and his team clearly saw they are better off playing with him.

[eyeatoma]

Every player is injured, it's a long season and by the time you're in deep PO round the team would've played close to 100 games in mere 7 months.
Embiid doesn't underperform in all games, he was good in game 5 against the Celts, you can't pull the injury excuse in game 7.
Celtics lost to the Heat after Tatum rolled his ankle in game 7, you think anyone is excusing the Celts or Tatum for it?

That's not true man, no one is playing with a broken eye socket, or a torn meniscus, or a PCL strain that should keep you out for a few months.

This is not some run of the mill ankle sprain, or bad wrist.

Especially for a big man, lower body injuries are severely debilitating. His facial injuries were equally hard to come back from. If anything, the dude should be commended for pushing through. But let it be clear, these are not the usual season long wear and tear things that most deal with.

Part of him underperforming in random games is the fact that the injury isn't healed and you'll have good and bad days. I dont' think everything is attributed to the injury thouhg, he definitely choked in game 7. But I don't think it would have gone 7 games if he was healthy. If he didn't miss the 1st game despite Harden winning it for them, it took him atleast a game to get into the groove.

No one plays with torn miniscus, but people play with partial tear, Giannis hyper extended his knee in ECF and came back to the finals.
He played well in game 5, his team beat the Celtics in Boston w/o him, he and his team clearly saw they are better off playing with him.

Yup, he also had a good coach, and co-stars who didn't shrink in adversity. As I said though, despite all of those "excuses" you guys think I'm giving, I'd probably put about 40% of the blame on Embiid and his inability to overcome the pressure/moment, and just get it done. It might still hinder him if he were healthy, but we can't be sure until he isn't missing games because of injuries in the playoffs.

[eyeatoma]

You literally said you were.done with Embiid until he did.it when it matters after the finals. What has flipped?

He is playing like the best player in the regular season again (maybe it'll translate to the playoffs this time). His defense is better, his offense is better, he is a far better passer, and Maxey is fun to watch.

And like DCasey said, I'm emotionally attached and probably should be done with him, but I want him to succeed so much, any glimmer of hope I see I cling to.

Most likely my heart will get crushed during the playoffs again, but that's what sports are all about.

[QPR]

That's fair, I respect your passion

[Mavrelous]

Yup, he also had a good coach, and co-stars who didn't shrink in adversity.

So the coach (2 of them) and co-stars are the problem? I think Doc Rivers is a bad coach, and I agree that Harden was disastrous in game 7, but Embiid was also horrible.
His PO failures are well documented, the onus is on him to remove the stench.
Believe me, my favourite team's MVP calibre player has the same problem, he had 2 1st round exits and 1 WCF run, he also missed the PO totally once, I have valid excuses for every failure, but I wouldn't put him in conversation with Jokic and Giannis until he proves it, he just doesn't deserve to be in the conversation, the same goes for Embiid.

[eyeatoma]

Yup, he also had a good coach, and co-stars who didn't shrink in adversity.

So the coach (2 of them) and co-stars are the problem? I think Doc Rivers is a bad coach, and I agree that Harden was disastrous in game 7, but Embiid was also horrible.
His PO failures are well documented, the onus is on him to remove the stench.
Believe me, my favourite team's MVP calibre player has the same problem, he had 2 1st round exits and 1 WCF run, he also missed the PO totally once, I have valid excuses for every failure, but I wouldn't put him in conversation with Jokic and Giannis until he proves it, he just doesn't deserve to be in the conversation, the same goes for Embiid.

Agreed, end of game 6 and all of game 7 he was terrible.

Eh, Luka isn't doing it in the regular season either. He'll have these spurts, and then they'll die down. Nobody is bringing it every day like Embiid is. Jokic is, but its a little different this year. Giannis is, but he's got Dame dropping 40 bombs every week. Shai was for a long time, but he's had a few blips the last week or two. This season Embiid has beaten the Thunder, the Wolves, the Nuggets, the Celtics and the Magic. All the best defensive teams in the league. Yet people are saying he's ducking.The only thing stopping Embiid from being the best player in the world (and it's a big thing, and most likely the hardest thing) is a chip. Even in his matchups with Jokic he's beating the Nuggets. He's doing everything he needs to in the regular season. It needs to translate in the playoffs though.

[Wolfgang630]

How can you be a Philly fan and not remember the injuries Allen Iverson had. They had charts up before the game to show you all of his injuries and he got all the way to the NBA Finals.

[eyeatoma]

How can you be a Philly fan and not remember the injuries Allen Iverson had. They had charts up before the game to show you all of his injuries and he got all the way to the NBA Finals.

They don't make them like AI man. That dude was a warrior.

[Wolfgang630]

How can you be a Philly fan and not remember the injuries Allen Iverson had. They had charts up before the game to show you all of his injuries and he got all the way to the NBA Finals.

They don't make them like AI man. That dude was a warrior.

He was my favorite player at the time.

[Mavrelous]

Yup, he also had a good coach, and co-stars who didn't shrink in adversity.

So the coach (2 of them) and co-stars are the problem? I think Doc Rivers is a bad coach, and I agree that Harden was disastrous in game 7, but Embiid was also horrible.
His PO failures are well documented, the onus is on him to remove the stench.
Believe me, my favourite team's MVP calibre player has the same problem, he had 2 1st round exits and 1 WCF run, he also missed the PO totally once, I have valid excuses for every failure, but I wouldn't put him in conversation with Jokic and Giannis until he proves it, he just doesn't deserve to be in the conversation, the same goes for Embiid.

Agreed, end of game 6 and all of game 7 he was terrible.

Eh, Luka isn't doing it in the regular season either. He'll have these spurts, and then they'll die down. Nobody is bringing it every day like Embiid is. Jokic is, but its a little different this year. Giannis is, but he's got Dame dropping 40 bombs every week. Shai was for a long time, but he's had a few blips the last week or two. This season Embiid has beaten the Thunder, the Wolves, the Nuggets, the Celtics and the Magic. All the best defensive teams in the league. Yet people are saying he's ducking.The only thing stopping Embiid from being the best player in the world (and it's a big thing, and most likely the hardest thing) is a chip. Even in his matchups with Jokic he's beating the Nuggets. He's doing everything he needs to in the regular season. It needs to translate in the playoffs though.

I'm not talking about MVP award, I think Embiid is the most deserving for MVP award this season, SGA is close 2nd, I'm talking as being in same tier consideration.
LeBron was the best player in the league most of his career, but others got the MVP.
Embiid isn't on Jokic tier, and he needs to accomplish in the PO to be considered on that tier.

[eyeatoma]

So the coach (2 of them) and co-stars are the problem? I think Doc Rivers is a bad coach, and I agree that Harden was disastrous in game 7, but Embiid was also horrible.
His PO failures are well documented, the onus is on him to remove the stench.
Believe me, my favourite team's MVP calibre player has the same problem, he had 2 1st round exits and 1 WCF run, he also missed the PO totally once, I have valid excuses for every failure, but I wouldn't put him in conversation with Jokic and Giannis until he proves it, he just doesn't deserve to be in the conversation, the same goes for Embiid.

Agreed, end of game 6 and all of game 7 he was terrible.

Eh, Luka isn't doing it in the regular season either. He'll have these spurts, and then they'll die down. Nobody is bringing it every day like Embiid is. Jokic is, but its a little different this year. Giannis is, but he's got Dame dropping 40 bombs every week. Shai was for a long time, but he's had a few blips the last week or two. This season Embiid has beaten the Thunder, the Wolves, the Nuggets, the Celtics and the Magic. All the best defensive teams in the league. Yet people are saying he's ducking.The only thing stopping Embiid from being the best player in the world (and it's a big thing, and most likely the hardest thing) is a chip. Even in his matchups with Jokic he's beating the Nuggets. He's doing everything he needs to in the regular season. It needs to translate in the playoffs though.

I'm not talking about MVP award, I think Embiid is the most deserving for MVP award this season, SGA is close 2nd, I'm talking as being in same tier consideration.
LeBron was the best player in the league most of his career, but others got the MVP.
Embiid isn't on Jokic tier, and he needs to accomplish in the PO to be considered on that tier.

Yes agreed.

[Sweet Serenity]

Watch on YouTube

Love me some Agent Zero!

Oh color us shocked, one of the most noted players to only care about his own stats thinks Embiid is the best big man on the planet.
You’re really scraping the bottom of the barrel if you’re using Gilbert Arenas as a reference point.



Oh & if you read the comments on that video you’ll see that basically everyone thinks Jokic is better than Embiid. Just thought I’d point that out to you considering you just think it’s RealGM that thinks that’s way lol

[eyeatoma]

Watch on YouTube

Love me some Agent Zero!

Oh color us shocked, one of the most noted players to only care about his own stats thinks Embiid is the best big man on the planet.
You’re really scraping the bottom of the barrel if you’re using Gilbert Arenas as a reference point.



Oh & if you read the comments on that video you’ll see that basically everyone thinks Jokic is better than Embiid. Just thought I’d point that out to you considering you just think it’s RealGM that thinks that’s way lol

He's got a point. Finals MVP anyone can win. Iggy won it, you think he's winning a regular season MVP. It's 4 games minimum 7 games max. Props to Joker, but he didnt' exactly play against a guantlet of teams for the chip. Plenty of issues with the teams he played, but he can only play the teams he's facing. Winning an MVP is harder than winning a finals MVP, but winning a chip is obviously harder than either.

[Exp0sed]

Watch on YouTube

Love me some Agent Zero!

He's got a point. Finals MVP anyone can win. Iggy won it, you think he's winning a regular season MVP. It's 4 games minimum 7 games max. Props to Joker, but he didnt' exactly play against a guantlet of teams for the chip. Plenty of issues with the teams he played, but he can only play the teams he's facing. Winning an MVP is harder than winning a finals MVP, but winning a chip is obviously harder than either.

ur moving goal posts...again

u literally wrote dozens and dozens of posts in 2022 about how wrong it would be to give a b2b MVP to a dude that hasn't won a chip, a dude that has never played with another all-star and that played extremely well in the playoffs every chance he got

now ur calling for a b2b MVP to a dude that has never made it out of the 2nd rd. do u really want me to dig up and quote the countless time u argued back 2 back MVP is reserved for a special tier of players (measured, according to u - by post season success)?

u spent 2 years repeating the same arguments about Jokic's lack of defense and how he's going to be exploited and exposed in the playoffs and how a team can never win a chip if it's built around a C that can't defend, when he went around and did just that (and in spectecular and convincing fashion not seen since Dirk), now ur claiming his competition wasn't all that...

if he's competition was so bad, how come u didn't predict he's got a good chance to go all the way?
it's not his fault the favorites on paper in the East (C's and Bucks) lost to that Miami team

I mean, if they were so bad - how come the best scorer ever and the best C to come along in decades (and MVP!) couldn't get past those teams? (with an ATG running mate and incredible pieces in Harris, Maxey etc.)

[Wolfgang630]

The Finals MVP should’ve been the MVP for the whole post season not just one series.