What to do with Bruce Brown

[ATLTimekeeper]

For Brown, you should want to guarantee an advantage. So an extra pick at minimum. Grimes isn't garbage or anything, but his value should be depressed because of this year. Yeah, maybe Milwaukee's pick is higher next year, but how much higher? I think these draft slots are all in the range of 'the same.' We shouldn't have to tag our own assets to Brown to gain a marginal hypothetical advantage.

No, that is definitely not ideal.

But considering Fournier/Grimes/draft capital is being floated as Knicks bait in reports, the Knicks either don’t value Brown for that package or there is disagreement on what draft capital entails

Isn't the ideal asset to "grease the wheels" the 2024 2nd we got from the Knicks (DET)? As it stands right now we'd be drafting at 17, 28 and 31st. Having 3 picks in that type of range seems like diminishing returns. If that DET 2nd can be used to get us a '25 1st it seems logical to give it up. We get the higher upside of the '25 draft and try to disperse the logjam that comes with drafting 3 players in the same draft.

Personally I'd rather hang on until draft night because 'eye of the beholder' lust takes over and picks can increase in value. You can package to move up, too.

[OakleyDokely]

This trade make sense:

Thunder receive: Bruce Brown

Raptors receive: Davis Bertans, 2025 top-six protected first-round pick via Sixers, 2027 first-round pick

Really don't think the Thunder need anymore guards/wings. If anything, they need a big that can bang with big bodies in the post instead of Chet.

Would really hold off dealing with the Thunder since they're the perfect place to extract value for Poeltl.

They're one of the teams who would be a Poeltl fit, but I doubt they want to commit to 3 more years of him given they will have a lot of guys looking for extensions in the coming years.

[Rapsfan07]

This trade make sense:

Thunder receive: Bruce Brown

Raptors receive: Davis Bertans, 2025 top-six protected first-round pick via Sixers, 2027 first-round pick

Really don't think the Thunder need anymore guards/wings. If anything, they need a big that can bang with big bodies in the post instead of Chet.

Would really hold off dealing with the Thunder since they're the perfect place to extract value for Poeltl.

They're one of the teams who would be a Poeltl fit, but I doubt they want to commit to 3 more years of him given they will have a lot of guys looking for extensions in the coming years.

Perhaps you're right. But as many of theorized - OKC has to do something soon. They've paid Shai and J-Dub, Giddey & Chet will all be due for extensions and they have no bigs. I think 3 years of Poeltl at $20M is fairly reasonable, though they might feel they can do better.

[mtcan]

This trade make sense:

Thunder receive: Bruce Brown

Raptors receive: Davis Bertans, 2025 top-six protected first-round pick via Sixers, 2027 first-round pick

Really don't think the Thunder need anymore guards/wings. If anything, they need a big that can bang with big bodies in the post instead of Chet.

Would really hold off dealing with the Thunder since they're the perfect place to extract value for Poeltl.

They're one of the teams who would be a Poeltl fit, but I doubt they want to commit to 3 more years of him given they will have a lot of guys looking for extensions in the coming years.

Jak's contract being ~20 million AAV...would constitute 11% of the salary cap come 2025 when the cap is set at 171 million. That cap number isn't as much as we once thought.

[OakleyDokely]

Really don't think the Thunder need anymore guards/wings. If anything, they need a big that can bang with big bodies in the post instead of Chet.

Would really hold off dealing with the Thunder since they're the perfect place to extract value for Poeltl.

They're one of the teams who would be a Poeltl fit, but I doubt they want to commit to 3 more years of him given they will have a lot of guys looking for extensions in the coming years.

Perhaps you're right. But as many of theorized - OKC has to do something soon. They've paid Shai and J-Dub, Giddey & Chet will all be due for extensions and they have no bigs. I think 3 years of Poeltl at $20M is fairly reasonable, though they might feel they can do better.

ya, they have some options in free agency, but the top guys might end up getting the same or more than Poeltl.

Val, Claxton, Hartenstein are probably the best Cs available. Val isn't much of a defender so I don't see them being interested in him. Claxton/Hart could be fits but I don't see either being cheap.

[Rapsfan07]

They're one of the teams who would be a Poeltl fit, but I doubt they want to commit to 3 more years of him given they will have a lot of guys looking for extensions in the coming years.

Perhaps you're right. But as many of theorized - OKC has to do something soon. They've paid Shai and J-Dub, Giddey & Chet will all be due for extensions and they have no bigs. I think 3 years of Poeltl at $20M is fairly reasonable, though they might feel they can do better.

ya, they have some options in free agency, but the top guys might end up getting the same or more than Poeltl.

Val, Claxton, Hartenstein are probably the best Cs available. Val isn't much of a defender so I don't see them being interested in him. Claxton/Hart could be fits but I don't see either being cheap.

That's the thing. This is why I think it would be smart to look to offload Poeltl now, while that Bertans contract is still available. Otherwise, it might get a little more difficult. Hartenstein might come for cheaper than Poeltl though but Poeltl is much better.

Mind you, we don't HAVE to move him... I think there are other guys on the roster that should be of much higher priority to trade. But this an opportunity that we might not see again for a while.

I would love to take a chance on WCJ, who is apparently available. If we can resolve the Brown situation and bring back either Grimes or some other bench guard, I think moving Trent for WCJ would be great for us.

[OakleyDokely]

Perhaps you're right. But as many of theorized - OKC has to do something soon. They've paid Shai and J-Dub, Giddey & Chet will all be due for extensions and they have no bigs. I think 3 years of Poeltl at $20M is fairly reasonable, though they might feel they can do better.

ya, they have some options in free agency, but the top guys might end up getting the same or more than Poeltl.

Val, Claxton, Hartenstein are probably the best Cs available. Val isn't much of a defender so I don't see them being interested in him. Claxton/Hart could be fits but I don't see either being cheap.

That's the thing. This is why I think it would be smart to look to offload Poeltl now, while that Bertans contract is still available. Otherwise, it might get a little more difficult. Hartenstein might come for cheaper than Poeltl though but Poeltl is much better.

Mind you, we don't HAVE to move him... I think there are other guys on the roster that should be of much higher priority to trade. But this an opportunity that we might not see again for a while.

I would love to take a chance on WCJ, who is apparently available. If we can resolve the Brown situation and bring back either Grimes or some other bench guard, I think moving Trent for WCJ would be great for us.

It's hard to predict what OKC will do because almost every player is available to them due to their warchest of picks.

[YogurtProducer]

Really don't think the Thunder need anymore guards/wings. If anything, they need a big that can bang with big bodies in the post instead of Chet.

Would really hold off dealing with the Thunder since they're the perfect place to extract value for Poeltl.

They're one of the teams who would be a Poeltl fit, but I doubt they want to commit to 3 more years of him given they will have a lot of guys looking for extensions in the coming years.

Jak's contract being ~20 million AAV...would constitute 11% of the salary cap come 2025 when the cap is set at 171 million. That cap number isn't as much as we once thought.

Not to mention Jakob is completely moveable at a later date if they need/want to

[OakleyDokely]

They're one of the teams who would be a Poeltl fit, but I doubt they want to commit to 3 more years of him given they will have a lot of guys looking for extensions in the coming years.

Jak's contract being ~20 million AAV...would constitute 11% of the salary cap come 2025 when the cap is set at 171 million. That cap number isn't as much as we once thought.

Not to mention Jakob is completely moveable at a later date if they need/want to

It was structured well because it doesn't increase in value. It's 19.5 every year of the deal. Towards the end of the deal, the MLE will be close to that.

[ConSarnit]

No, that is definitely not ideal.

But considering Fournier/Grimes/draft capital is being floated as Knicks bait in reports, the Knicks either don’t value Brown for that package or there is disagreement on what draft capital entails

Isn't the ideal asset to "grease the wheels" the 2024 2nd we got from the Knicks (DET)? As it stands right now we'd be drafting at 17, 28 and 31st. Having 3 picks in that type of range seems like diminishing returns. If that DET 2nd can be used to get us a '25 1st it seems logical to give it up. We get the higher upside of the '25 draft and try to disperse the logjam that comes with drafting 3 players in the same draft.

Personally I'd rather hang on until draft night because 'eye of the beholder' lust takes over and picks can increase in value. You can package to move up, too.

It's a tough call with Brown. He definitely has value as a guy who can help teams in the playoffs this year. If he's traded this year the team can also cut him before the draft if it doesn't work out of they need to free up salary. If we wait until the draft then that will open up other teams ability to trade current/future picks which could make dealing easier (but possibly at the cost of them only getting one year of control for Brown).

There are a million scenarios with Brown. My leaning is if someone puts a real non-2024 1st on the table (before the deadline) we should probably take it. Another 2024 1st (assuming it's lotto protected) doesn't do much for us at this time so I'd be less inclined to move Brown for a 1st in this upcoming draft.

[OakleyDokely]

I think we should target a '25 1st or a good young player on a rookie deal for Brown. We already have enough picks in 2024, although I wouldn't turn another one down if that's the best offer.

[Wigginstime]

I do think Toronto absolutely has to Trade Brown and the sooner the better.

Brown on championship team maximizes his value as a critical piece and smart player who does all the little things and plays solid defense.

Brown on a rebuilding team will quickly get labeled as a bad contract and as a guy getting paid +$20M while averaging 10ppg with a PER of 12.0.

[TGM]

Don’t understand why people like Grimes his game is very average. Even last season. Rui is a way more talented player and is just another guy in the wrong system like how people thought Barrett was a liability.

Also the interesting thing with the Lakers is we could potential package on of our late firsts or our early second this year to them to have no pick protection on their 2028 pick. The lakers need a late first to grab Bronny

[aroc23]

Which teams have prospects that are being underutilized and are also in luxury tax hell or need to keep flexibility to sign their own players? Ideally those teams also want to try and compete this year.

The Warriors and Pelicans come to mind. Anyone else?

[aroc23]

Don’t understand why people like Grimes his game is very average. Even last season. Rui is a way more talented player and is just another guy in the wrong system like how people thought Barrett was a liability.

Also the interesting thing with the Lakers is we could potential package on of our late firsts or our early second this year to them to have no pick protection on their 2028 pick. The lakers need a late first to grab Bronny

Rui is overpaid and overrated by many. He is a bad defender so he is not a long term starter on a good team. I would not want to pay him $18 million in 2026 when he is a 28 year old backup.

I think the earliest the Lakers can trade a pick is 2029. That pick would convey in 5.5 years. That's a bit far out for my liking. If it was the only offer for Brown that included a 1st and the Lakers sent an expiring or moveable contract with it I would be okay with that, but I would not be super thrilled with that return.

[alpngso]

Read on Twitter

Give us Peyton Watson+Nnaji+KCP. Done deal. Add Det 2nd if needed

[ConSarnit]

Perhaps you're right. But as many of theorized - OKC has to do something soon. They've paid Shai and J-Dub, Giddey & Chet will all be due for extensions and they have no bigs. I think 3 years of Poeltl at $20M is fairly reasonable, though they might feel they can do better.

ya, they have some options in free agency, but the top guys might end up getting the same or more than Poeltl.

Val, Claxton, Hartenstein are probably the best Cs available. Val isn't much of a defender so I don't see them being interested in him. Claxton/Hart could be fits but I don't see either being cheap.

That's the thing. This is why I think it would be smart to look to offload Poeltl now, while that Bertans contract is still available. Otherwise, it might get a little more difficult. Hartenstein might come for cheaper than Poeltl though but Poeltl is much better.

Mind you, we don't HAVE to move him... I think there are other guys on the roster that should be of much higher priority to trade. But this an opportunity that we might not see again for a while.

I would love to take a chance on WCJ, who is apparently available. If we can resolve the Brown situation and bring back either Grimes or some other bench guard, I think moving Trent for WCJ would be great for us.

Is he? Numbers since Hartenstein took over as starter:

8/12/3
65 TS%
dfg% at rim: -12%
offrtg: 120
defrtg: 107
screen assist pts: 10.6
post-up: 1.09ppp
roll-man: 1.04ppp

Poeltl:

10/8/2.5
67 TS%
dfg% at rim: -7%
offrtg: 112
defrtg: 113
screen assist pts: 6.9
post-up: 0.75ppp
roll-man: 1.34ppp

They aren't that far off when given the same opportunity. Neither have much range, both are efficient scorers, both can pass a bit, both will do the dirty work (rebound, screen), both are solid but not spectacular defenders.

[djsunyc]

hartenstein will be a UFA so a team with cap space can go after him and he will get $15+ mil.

[LoveMyRaps]

Read on Twitter

Give us Peyton Watson+Nnaji+KCP. Done deal. Add Det 2nd if needed

KCP is extremely valuable to them. They're not giving up his shooting for Brown. Let alone adding their best prospect in Watson.

[djsunyc]

Don’t understand why people like Grimes his game is very average. Even last season. Rui is a way more talented player and is just another guy in the wrong system like how people thought Barrett was a liability.

Also the interesting thing with the Lakers is we could potential package on of our late firsts or our early second this year to them to have no pick protection on their 2028 pick. The lakers need a late first to grab Bronny

i can only speak for myself but when i bring up grimes, it's in the context of players we may want with the teams looking to add brown. right now the rumored teams are knicks and lakers. so if we deal with the knicks, the only young player of value they have is grimes so it would be grimes and a pick.

rui's contract has 2 more years on it so there's no need to make that deal now. we can wait till the summer to trade for him - we could pick up brown's option and then trade him for rui then. but right now, i don't value rui more than i would value grimes + pick.