Pacers Pick Tracking (Update: #19 officially)

[srhcan]

Pascal is even more useless now on the pacers. He just stands around confused on offense. He doesn't hustle at all looks tired or lazy 90% of the time

The Knicks playing much better validates my sentiment that OG is worth the max for his defense like Gobert and his offense is at least average, even though not dynamic.

The Pacers played well when Haliburton had been out, prior to the Siakam trade. This validates my sentiment that Pascal had just been the same player since the Bubble and might have even gotten worse on defense because he was expending energy on offense to get paid. Indiana had great depth and Pascal effed up the flow.

where is the -1 button when we really need it

[Steelo Green]

I don’t think Haliburton has been playing.

Was he ever useless here? We just lost to a G-League team at home and I’m not kidding, we look like a bottom 5 team right now. This is coming from a guy that was actually pretty optimistic about this team. We stink.

Steelo stole Los_29's password

Careful bro, I got a warning for calling her out. Apparently it's baiting when you're telling the truth...smh

Obsession comes in many forms Super Bro, but jokes about gender are low even for you.

[douggood]

Does the Pacers pick have any protection?!

It would be pretty hilarious if they free falled right out of the Playoffs and their pick somehow fluked into the top 4.

Top 3 in '24
Top 4 in '26

to add to this

top 3 in 24; otherwise 2 seconds
top 4 in 26; otherwise top 4 in 27; and then it's 2 seconds as well.

[ItsDanger]

Pascal is even more useless now on the pacers. He just stands around confused on offense. He doesn't hustle at all looks tired or lazy 90% of the time

The Knicks playing much better validates my sentiment that OG is worth the max for his defense like Gobert and his offense is at least average, even though not dynamic.

The Pacers played well when Haliburton had been out, prior to the Siakam trade. This validates my sentiment that Pascal had just been the same player since the Bubble and might have even gotten worse on defense because he was expending energy on offense to get paid. Indiana had great depth and Pascal effed up the flow.

where is the -1 button when we really need it

Siakam's defense declined a lot these past 2+ seasons. Not even debatable.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Adding another offensive player to the #1 offensive team, was a blunder. More of a good thing isn't always better.

[BetterCallSaul]

I would humbly suggest your memory has conflated last year with 2 years ago in some respects.

Which players didn't play in Canada? Who were these lots of teams not sending players? 97% of the players in league were vaccinated before the season even started. The Raps were 24-17 at home and......24-17 on the road that year. They didn't win 48 games on the back of inflated home wins because players couldn't get into the country. They were 5th in the east, not lucky to make the playoffs.

Fred wasn't playing selfishly for a contract in 2021/22. I don't even know where that narrative is coming from. His usage was slightly lower than it was in 2020/21, his assist % was the same and his contract wasn't expiring.

Scottie and Siakam had better numbers when they were on the floor together than they each did when the other was on the bench. They were fine together.

Many have been predicting the teams downfall for over a decade. Who gives a ****?

Also, Fred is playing the exact same way right now on the Rockets. After getting his huge contract. Are we going to suggest that Fred plays like it's a contract year every year of his career? Isn't that just called trying really hard?

Fred's contract is only for 2 years (3rd year is a team option that Rockets will most likely not pick up for luxury tax reasons). He can't let his numbers dip too much. To fit in he has seen his attempts drop from 16 to 14 per game, which has resulted in his scoring dropping from 19 to 17 pts per game. Luckily he has found a good pairing with Sengun, which has probably helped Fred's shot efficiency.

Not shocking that with Fred on the Rockets, Sengun's game has taken off and Jalen Green's has sagged.

That's a very funny way to frame what's happening. Again, Fred was playing like a contract year player in 21-22, 22-23 and 23-24 and presumably will continue doing so next year when he actually might be a free agent. He continues to "bet on himself" and prove that he is worth what he gets paid and maybe even more. What exactly is wrong with that.

Also, why wouldn't Fred also be benefitting Sengun as much as Sengun is benefitting Fred? People act like Fred is Chris Duhon and all he does is putz around the perimeter waiting for threes. He is one of the best passers and pull up 3 point shooters in the league.

[BetterCallSaul]

It's too early to rag on the Pascal situation. Halliburton is hurt and Rick Carlisle will need time to use Pascal. I'm curious to see what they look like with 15 games of Pascal and Halliburton together.
Pascal has always been closer to DeMar DeRozan than Jayson Tatum in terms of star power. That's not an insult it's just a fact. That tier of player can still be extremely vital to playoff success, as we know. I don't think the Pacers believe they're winning a chip this year with the roster they have, but they want to get to the 2nd round and they want to have a competitive series with a true contender to prove to themselves that this off-season is worth going "all in" with all the other assets and talent they still have.

[JB7]

This is an interesting question. If the Siakam experiment fails would the Pacers just walk away? It is one of the few times a team is really hedged against a FA walking. Losing the 2 1sts this year is not a big loss and the it’s just 1 pick in ‘26 and a guy they signed as a UFA (so basically for free). It’s not catastrophic if they part ways with Siakam. I guess the question is how much of a promise did they give Siakam. It won’t look good if they walk away but Siakam implies they promised him a max no matter what. I would guess they don’t walk away because they’ll talk themselves into Siakam’s history of solid play and there’s no way they can get a better player with the money saved. Siakam walking would be good for us in ‘26 (and probably this year because it means the experiment failed).

I don’t think there is any chance the Pacers are going to draw conclusions about the “Siakam experiment” based on the results of half-a-season. It’s pretty likely that an informal agreement was discussed and agreed to as part of the trade.

Agreed. It was more a statement on how it wouldn't be a disaster for IND if they don't re-sign Siakam. If Siakam leaves it will because he doesn't like it there, not because IND doesn't want him (even if his play is really bad, which it won't be).

But assume the worst case scenario. Pacers fall into the play-in and lose, not even making the playoffs. Would Pacers still max out a 30 year old Pascal? They would have to max him out to retain him, otherwise a team like Detroit might max him out.

For the Pacers it is about whether Pascal on a max salary is an positive or negative asset. If on a max contract he cannot be traded without attaching assets, then is it worth resigning him, if this season failed miserably.

[JB7]

Also, Fred is playing the exact same way right now on the Rockets. After getting his huge contract. Are we going to suggest that Fred plays like it's a contract year every year of his career? Isn't that just called trying really hard?

Fred's contract is only for 2 years (3rd year is a team option that Rockets will most likely not pick up for luxury tax reasons). He can't let his numbers dip too much. To fit in he has seen his attempts drop from 16 to 14 per game, which has resulted in his scoring dropping from 19 to 17 pts per game. Luckily he has found a good pairing with Sengun, which has probably helped Fred's shot efficiency.

Not shocking that with Fred on the Rockets, Sengun's game has taken off and Jalen Green's has sagged.

That's a very funny way to frame what's happening. Again, Fred was playing like a contract year player in 21-22, 22-23 and 23-24 and presumably will continue doing so next year when he actually might be a free agent. He continues to "bet on himself" and prove that he is worth what he gets paid and maybe even more. What exactly is wrong with that.

Also, why wouldn't Fred also be benefitting Sengun as much as Sengun is benefitting Fred? People act like Fred is Chris Duhon and all he does is putz around the perimeter waiting for threes. He is one of the best passers and pull up 3 point shooters in the league.

In my original statement I was saying it was a two way street for Fred and Sengun. They have both benefitted from each other. But the player who has not benefitted is Green.

But is Fred worth the max? Houston is 20-23 and in 11th place in the West, outside of the play in. Yes they have performed much better than last year, but how much of that is also attributed to Brooks and Udoka, and if they are still going to be a lottery team, they are not picking up Fred's 3rd year.

Problem for Fred is no team would hold his bird rights then, which means he is then reliant on a team with cap space signing him, or signing an MLE deal.

[Bruin]

Adding another offensive player to the #1 offensive team, was a blunder. More of a good thing isn't always better.

The fact that it will result in the ball being in Hali’s hands a bit less is the biggest issue. Siakam isn’t really the off ball kind of guy he used to be. He typically needs the ball in his hands to do his thing. It Siakam can step back and be what he was in 2019 it will work out but idk if that’ll happen.

I think the offense might end up taking a step back just cause of the fact that Hali will have less usage

[PD28]

Lol feel wierd to root against Pascal but its for a chance at a decent pick

We've seen for years that he really isn't a needle mover so no surprise they aren't doing well without Hali. I just wonder if they will reconsider offering him 45-50 mill per year based on his play this year.

[Chandan]

Fred's contract is only for 2 years (3rd year is a team option that Rockets will most likely not pick up for luxury tax reasons). He can't let his numbers dip too much. To fit in he has seen his attempts drop from 16 to 14 per game, which has resulted in his scoring dropping from 19 to 17 pts per game. Luckily he has found a good pairing with Sengun, which has probably helped Fred's shot efficiency.

Not shocking that with Fred on the Rockets, Sengun's game has taken off and Jalen Green's has sagged.

That's a very funny way to frame what's happening. Again, Fred was playing like a contract year player in 21-22, 22-23 and 23-24 and presumably will continue doing so next year when he actually might be a free agent. He continues to "bet on himself" and prove that he is worth what he gets paid and maybe even more. What exactly is wrong with that.

Also, why wouldn't Fred also be benefitting Sengun as much as Sengun is benefitting Fred? People act like Fred is Chris Duhon and all he does is putz around the perimeter waiting for threes. He is one of the best passers and pull up 3 point shooters in the league.

In my original statement I was saying it was a two way street for Fred and Sengun. They have both benefitted from each other. But the player who has not benefitted is Green.

But is Fred worth the max? Houston is 20-23 and in 11th place in the West, outside of the play in. Yes they have performed much better than last year, but how much of that is also attributed to Brooks and Udoka, and if they are still going to be a lottery team, they are not picking up Fred's 3rd year.

Problem for Fred is no team would hold his bird rights then, which means he is then reliant on a team with cap space signing him, or signing an MLE deal.

Fred is in the same situation as Poeltl. Yea he's overpaid. But it's not like this team have any use for the cap space. And he does fill a necessary role even if there are much better players out there.

[HiJiNX]

I don’t think Haliburton has been playing.

Was he ever useless here? We just lost to a G-League team at home and I’m not kidding, we look like a bottom 5 team right now. This is coming from a guy that was actually pretty optimistic about this team. We stink.

Steelo stole Los_29's password

Careful bro, I got a warning for calling her out. Apparently it's baiting when you're telling the truth...smh

Nope, it’s baiting when you’re calling posters out by name to throw shade at them or criticize them. I’ve done it before, and shoot, I still get tempted to do it, but I think the position of the mods on this board is we want to curtail that kind of behaviour.

[ConSarnit]

I don’t think there is any chance the Pacers are going to draw conclusions about the “Siakam experiment” based on the results of half-a-season. It’s pretty likely that an informal agreement was discussed and agreed to as part of the trade.

Agreed. It was more a statement on how it wouldn't be a disaster for IND if they don't re-sign Siakam. If Siakam leaves it will because he doesn't like it there, not because IND doesn't want him (even if his play is really bad, which it won't be).

But assume the worst case scenario. Pacers fall into the play-in and lose, not even making the playoffs. Would Pacers still max out a 30 year old Pascal? They would have to max him out to retain him, otherwise a team like Detroit might max him out.

For the Pacers it is about whether Pascal on a max salary is an positive or negative asset. If on a max contract he cannot be traded without attaching assets, then is it worth resigning him, if this season failed miserably.

They do it no matter what. Their salary structure can sustain it, even is Siakam is overpaid by $5-6m/year. Mathurin isn't due for an extension until '26/27 and Walker until '27/28. If they max Siakam and bring Hield back ($18m/yr) Indy will still be nearly $20m under the tax next year with Haliburton, Siakam, Turner, Hield, Mathurin, Nesmith, Smith, Walker, Nembhard all under contract. If you look a the Pacers salary structure they will be under the tax until '27/28, at which point Siakam becomes an expiring.

The Pacers are much better off signing Siakam + Hield for $60m combined than to try and make a go of it with $50m in cap space (which high level free agent is going to sign in Indy?). Indy has no way of getting a player at Siakam's level if they let him walk. If they could chase bigger fish it might make sense to preserve that cap space. But they can't because they're in Indiana.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Adding another offensive player to the #1 offensive team, was a blunder. More of a good thing isn't always better.

The fact that it will result in the ball being in Hali’s hands a bit less is the biggest issue. Siakam isn’t really the off ball kind of guy he used to be. He typically needs the ball in his hands to do his thing. It Siakam can step back and be what he was in 2019 it will work out but idk if that’ll happen.

I think the offense might end up taking a step back just cause of the fact that Hali will have less usage

From what I've seen, it's a knock on effect even with him out. Everybody gets less touches. Less rhythm in those shots now.

[NinjaBro]

Steelo stole Los_29's password

Careful bro, I got a warning for calling her out. Apparently it's baiting when you're telling the truth...smh

Nope, it’s baiting when you’re calling posters out by name to throw shade at them or criticize them. I’ve done it before, and shoot, I still get tempted to do it, but I think the position of the mods on this board is we want to curtail that kind of behaviour.

What if they're consistingly making bad posts and give bad takes?

"If you want to lose brain cells go read Realgm" - Pensare Basketball

[Psubs]

Lol feel wierd to root against Pascal but its for a chance at a decent pick

We've seen for years that he really isn't a needle mover so no surprise they aren't doing well without Hali. I just wonder if they will reconsider offering him 45-50 mill per year based on his play this year.

Just cheer for Pascal to play the same way he's played the last 3 seasons. Take lots of shots and slow down the flow of the offense. The Pacers were humming as the league's highest scoring offense, even when McConnell was the PG and Haliburton out. No that Siakam has taken up usage, things are not as free.

[ConSarnit]

That's a very funny way to frame what's happening. Again, Fred was playing like a contract year player in 21-22, 22-23 and 23-24 and presumably will continue doing so next year when he actually might be a free agent. He continues to "bet on himself" and prove that he is worth what he gets paid and maybe even more. What exactly is wrong with that.

Also, why wouldn't Fred also be benefitting Sengun as much as Sengun is benefitting Fred? People act like Fred is Chris Duhon and all he does is putz around the perimeter waiting for threes. He is one of the best passers and pull up 3 point shooters in the league.

In my original statement I was saying it was a two way street for Fred and Sengun. They have both benefitted from each other. But the player who has not benefitted is Green.

But is Fred worth the max? Houston is 20-23 and in 11th place in the West, outside of the play in. Yes they have performed much better than last year, but how much of that is also attributed to Brooks and Udoka, and if they are still going to be a lottery team, they are not picking up Fred's 3rd year.

Problem for Fred is no team would hold his bird rights then, which means he is then reliant on a team with cap space signing him, or signing an MLE deal.

Fred is in the same situation as Poeltl. Yea he's overpaid. But it's not like this team have any use for the cap space. And he does fill a necessary role even if there are much better players out there.

Also, FVV does not need to do very well on his next contract to come out ahead. If we go by the rumors that we offered 4/120, then to get the full $120m over 4 years Fred will only need to sign a 2 year deal for $37m. At that point in time $18m/yr will be 11% of the cap, which is a pittance for a starting level pg.

If Fred gets any more than 2/$37m in '25/26, he comes out ahead

If by some chance the Rockets pick up his option, he comes out way ahead

If he can only get the MLE over 2 years, he'll still only come up short by about $8m on the $120m he turned down from the Raptors.

The odds have to favor FVV coming out ahead, even if HOU declines his 3rd year. You'd have to believe he's still worth $20m/year 1.5 years from now. There should also be more cap space opening up between '25-27 as the cap is expected to jump 10% per year, which likely also opens Fred's market.

[HiJiNX]

Careful bro, I got a warning for calling her out. Apparently it's baiting when you're telling the truth...smh

Nope, it’s baiting when you’re calling posters out by name to throw shade at them or criticize them. I’ve done it before, and shoot, I still get tempted to do it, but I think the position of the mods on this board is we want to curtail that kind of behaviour.

What if they're consistingly making bad posts and give bad takes?

"If you want to lose brain cells go read Realgm" - Pensare Basketball

Same deal. Respond to their posts when they post.

[BetterCallSaul]

Fred's contract is only for 2 years (3rd year is a team option that Rockets will most likely not pick up for luxury tax reasons). He can't let his numbers dip too much. To fit in he has seen his attempts drop from 16 to 14 per game, which has resulted in his scoring dropping from 19 to 17 pts per game. Luckily he has found a good pairing with Sengun, which has probably helped Fred's shot efficiency.

Not shocking that with Fred on the Rockets, Sengun's game has taken off and Jalen Green's has sagged.

That's a very funny way to frame what's happening. Again, Fred was playing like a contract year player in 21-22, 22-23 and 23-24 and presumably will continue doing so next year when he actually might be a free agent. He continues to "bet on himself" and prove that he is worth what he gets paid and maybe even more. What exactly is wrong with that.

Also, why wouldn't Fred also be benefitting Sengun as much as Sengun is benefitting Fred? People act like Fred is Chris Duhon and all he does is putz around the perimeter waiting for threes. He is one of the best passers and pull up 3 point shooters in the league.

In my original statement I was saying it was a two way street for Fred and Sengun. They have both benefitted from each other. But the player who has not benefitted is Green.

But is Fred worth the max? Houston is 20-23 and in 11th place in the West, outside of the play in. Yes they have performed much better than last year, but how much of that is also attributed to Brooks and Udoka, and if they are still going to be a lottery team, they are not picking up Fred's 3rd year.

Problem for Fred is no team would hold his bird rights then, which means he is then reliant on a team with cap space signing him, or signing an MLE deal.

No, he's not worth the max in the way we typically think of a max. But a 2+ team option max is very different than a 4-5 year max. I think he's definitely worth the investment the Rockets put into him so far. His two guaranteed years expire when they start needing to make decisions regarding which of their young guys they want to pay. In the meantime they are actively trying to win every game and actually winning some.
Regarding Green, I think this year is a lot more beneficial for him than last season. Not sure how much development happens when you're on the laughing stock of the league and everyone is talking about how unprofessional the locker room culture is.