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Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0

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Re: Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0 

Post#241 » by IceColdCubano » Thu Jan 25, 2024 6:42 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
IceColdCubano wrote:I am still seeing too many issues out on the court we have no answers for, that Terry isn't going to fix on his own.

1. Still don't show a semblance of a half court offense that can consistently score, to the point that we barely ever get above 100 points these days.
2. We still can't find ways to get to the basket for an easy score, and when we do its a very tough shot or we miss our free throws.
3. Three point shooting is very difficult instead of it happening naturally within the flow as play call, its only as a relief valve at the end of the shot clock we turns into a rush miss. We also don't shoot enough of them to matter when we are making them regardless.
4. Our defense used to be give or take, we either allowed open corner threes in exchange for collapsing at the basket denying layups/dunks/floaters. That is not the case anymore we allow any and every type of scoring imaginable, our defense is bad everywhere.
5. We have not found consistent roles for anyone on the team nor does anyone on the team know the guys next to them is doing in their role. I say this because we don't know if Jimmy is playing like he means it so players are hesitant to start the game and stand around to watch him or funnel the ball to him. Bam since the injurie has relegated himself to a spot up shooter, but rarely does DHO's anymore and just roams around the middle of the court. We stopped doing pick and roll action with him, something that was working earlier in the season. Herro comes is like a loose canon in some games and shots himself out of rhythm with terrible heat checks, then comes in other games thinking too much, deferring to others, not looking aggressive. Duncan, Highsmith, Jovic, Caleb, Richardson, Love have all been starters at different positions and have gone back and forth from bench to starting to back to the bench or not played at all, there's no way to figure out a role when you keep shuffling guys around playing wack a mole.
6. The only consistant thing this year has been our rookie JJJ, in which he has responded to his role better than predicted, and is injured which correlates to our losing streak since going down, being the only think that held together the paper house.
7. Our wins this year have not been convincing were still playing losing 3rd and 4th quarters only to grind a win, we cannot hold on to leads to save our lives. At least last years team, was bad but super clutch in 4th quarters which helped build some good habits for the playoffs. I don't know how you can look at this team and think we would be successful in the playoffs and not get ran off the court.
8. Jimmy Butler is looking worse for the wiser this year, and I have zero faith he will replicate his previous playoffs performances. I say that because in the last couple of years, when Jimmy gave a damn he was able to get what he wanted in games that meant something to him. This year if your watching even when Jimmy wants to do something, he cannot get passed anyone anymore, his bully ball isn't pushing him passed anyone. He still gets the benefit of the whistle and gets to the free throw line however that may not be there in the playoffs if the refs are not calling the game a certain way. He has lost a couple of steps, his shot is flatter than usual, and he looks like he struggles to run up and down the court.
9. Spo has had to do a lot of Frankenstein builds due to injuries I get that, unfortunately this year he hasn't been able to figure out anything that works, at some point in time the parts and pieces on the team just don't fit or work regardless of what you got.


When I saw this post format from you I thought for sure it was a sauceee nugget incoming :lol:

Omg :lol:


I never thought I would be the reason for some on this forum to have PTSD. LMAO
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Re: Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0 

Post#242 » by SoFlaKingReal » Thu Jan 25, 2024 6:44 pm

Reality has set in....it sucks we just lost another first round pick.
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Re: Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0 

Post#243 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Thu Jan 25, 2024 6:46 pm

twix2500 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
AirP. wrote:Around 30 million a year for the next 3 years says it has to be a concern. You can't let an asset with that many years left drop in value. Robinson was a unique situation because there was a much better option at that time on the bench, this isn't as clear of change as that one was.


What’s his current value as a starter asset wise?


From Herro perspective. Salary wise there are value slots differences between a starter and sixth man during contract negotiations. Teams will use it against you during contract negotiations. That is the biggest part that a player doesnt want to be a sixth man.

Team wise construction, the sixth man can be just as valuable or more valuable than a starting position. Manu Ginobli, Lou Williams and Crawford were more valuable than starter to teams as a sixthman, but they lost a lot of money being a sixth man.


He’s already got his money, that’s besides the point. What is his value on the trade market?

Which of the following scenarios is Herros trade value the highest:

Scenario 1: starting and averaging 22-6-4 on nearly career low efficiency, we win a play in game to make the playoffs and get bounced the 1st, maybe 2nd round at best.

Scenario 2: off the bench but is in our closing lineup and literally just replicates his 6MOY play at 21-5-4 on better efficiency, we go on a hit streak and snag the 4 seed and make it back to the NBA finals or potentially even win the championship because we’ve upgraded the roster and our lineups and everything is now flowing much better

Did Tyler lose trade value in scenario 2 because he was coming off the bench compared to scenario 1? Absolutely not.
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Re: Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0 

Post#244 » by twix2500 » Thu Jan 25, 2024 6:49 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
What’s his current value as a starter asset wise?


From Herro perspective. Salary wise there are value slots differences between a starter and sixth man during contract negotiations. Teams will use it against you during contract negotiations. That is the biggest part that a player doesnt want to be a sixth man.

Team wise construction, the sixth man can be just as valuable or more valuable than a starting position. Manu Ginobli, Lou Williams and Crawford were more valuable than starter to teams as a sixthman, but they lost a lot of money being a sixth man.


He’s already got his money, that’s besides the point. What is his value on the trade market?

Which of the following scenarios is Herros trade value the highest:

Scenario 1: starting and averaging 22-6-4 on nearly career low efficiency, we win a play in game to make the playoffs and get bounced the 1st, maybe 2nd round at best.

Scenario 2: off the bench but is in our closing lineup and literally just replicates his 6MOY play at 21-5-4 on better efficiency, we go on a hit streak and snag the 4 seed and make it back to the NBA finals or potentially even win the championship because we’ve upgraded the roster and our lineups and everything is now flowing much better

Did Tyler lose trade value in scenario 2 because he was coming off the bench compared to scenario 1? Absolutely not.


Money matter to the team. They have money slotted for a 6th man. The CFO will be resistent to approve the salary slot for 6th man
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Re: Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0 

Post#245 » by wadenation305 » Thu Jan 25, 2024 7:00 pm

SoFlaKingReal wrote:Reality has set in....it sucks we just lost another first round pick.


Too soon, going to be at least 20-30 games before we start to see a semblance of what they might look like in full swing. If that, they might not flourish until Game 1 of the playoffs.

What I have arrived at is that Herro is firmly in the Lavine category. Can put up numbers but it's not anything that helps you towards a championship.
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Re: Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0 

Post#246 » by AirP. » Thu Jan 25, 2024 7:01 pm

greg4012 wrote:
AirP. wrote:
greg4012 wrote:Herro's ego simply cannot be factor that the Heat need to work around. It seems to be, and that is becoming a concern.

Around 30 million a year for the next 3 years says it has to be a concern. You can't let an asset with that many years left drop in value. Robinson was a unique situation because there was a much better option at that time on the bench, this isn't as clear of change as that one was.


Quality operators don't just pay someone money then say, "hey you're in control now because we paid you". I'm, sorry but I do not subscribe to that whatsoever. They make him believe it's in his interest, as well.

Manu Ginobili was widely recognized as part of Spurs big 3 for most of their championships.

I'm not saying an average Joe can do it. But, a top tier organization has to hold itself to a higher standard.


Herro isn't Ginobili, Herro is on the record saying publicly how good he believes he is and how good he expects to be. It's one thing to think this, it's another thing to put it out for public consumption. He not only said all-star he said SUPERSTAR in the clip below, but he also has an ego which is fine but saying this type of thoughts publicly seems to mean he wants people to know what he thinks.

A second point, he was a scoring 6th man, he won 6th man of the year, he played starter minutes guess what... he wanted to be a starter so I kinda think he will take issue being moved from what he wanted to the position he wanted to no longer be. Riley even said he needed to become a 2 way player to win the spot and guess what, he didn't become a 2 way player, in fact he routinely didn't give effort on the defense end, produced around the same rate except he took more shots and ta-da, he was and currently is still a starter EVEN THOUGH Miami has had more success with him as a 6th man and/or when Robinson has started in his place.

So yeah, I think there will be an issue with Herro being demoted which is what he'll see it at. I feel this strongly about it I thought Miami may just use Rozier as a scoring 6th man not to cause issues but it's pretty apparent that the way Rozier plays will be very beneficial to the starting lineup.

I do find it odd that more people don't expect some type of fallout if a player with a large ego gets demoted to coming off the bench.

It's quite possible to be a talented player that just doesn't fit properly on a team. Rudy Gay a talented player and a good scorer in Memphis and Toronto at around 20 ppg but his old teams seemed to do better once he left.

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Re: Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0 

Post#247 » by Hoops3355 » Thu Jan 25, 2024 7:08 pm

SoFlaKingReal wrote:Reality has set in....it sucks we just lost another first round pick.


We'll be fine JJJr is back tonight or next game. Adding him back + Terry were gonna be cooking in 10 games.
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Re: Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0 

Post#248 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Thu Jan 25, 2024 7:13 pm

twix2500 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
From Herro perspective. Salary wise there are value slots differences between a starter and sixth man during contract negotiations. Teams will use it against you during contract negotiations. That is the biggest part that a player doesnt want to be a sixth man.

Team wise construction, the sixth man can be just as valuable or more valuable than a starting position. Manu Ginobli, Lou Williams and Crawford were more valuable than starter to teams as a sixthman, but they lost a lot of money being a sixth man.


He’s already got his money, that’s besides the point. What is his value on the trade market?

Which of the following scenarios is Herros trade value the highest:

Scenario 1: starting and averaging 22-6-4 on nearly career low efficiency, we win a play in game to make the playoffs and get bounced the 1st, maybe 2nd round at best.

Scenario 2: off the bench but is in our closing lineup and literally just replicates his 6MOY play at 21-5-4 on better efficiency, we go on a hit streak and snag the 4 seed and make it back to the NBA finals or potentially even win the championship because we’ve upgraded the roster and our lineups and everything is now flowing much better

Did Tyler lose trade value in scenario 2 because he was coming off the bench compared to scenario 1? Absolutely not.


Money matter to the team. They have money slotted for a 6th man. The CFO will be resistent to approve the salary slot for 6th man


Lmao not if it produces wins
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Re: Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0 

Post#249 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Thu Jan 25, 2024 7:14 pm

Hoops3355 wrote:
SoFlaKingReal wrote:Reality has set in....it sucks we just lost another first round pick.


We'll be fine JJJr is back tonight or next game. Adding him back + Terry were gonna be cooking in 10 games.


Ruled out tonight unfortunately
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Re: Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0 

Post#250 » by AirP. » Thu Jan 25, 2024 7:15 pm

SoFlaKingReal wrote:Reality has set in....it sucks we just lost another first round pick.


Miami just added a proven 20 ppg pg who should be good for the next 2 years, you have a pretty good replacement for Butler in Jaquez Jr and you have the stabilizing force in Bam just now entering his prime, Miami is in a very good spot now and in the future. What Miami doesn't have is an MVP level talent which from time to time you get from Butler and who knows how long that will be around, if you can find a way to get someone near an MVP level talent to go with that Miami will continue to be a contender. Maybe a vet shakes loose like KD and you can get 2 great seasons from him. Until then I think it's Miami's FO hope that Herro somehow gets to a dominate scorer level instead of just a volume scorer level.
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Re: Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0 

Post#251 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Thu Jan 25, 2024 7:18 pm

AirP. wrote:
SoFlaKingReal wrote:Reality has set in....it sucks we just lost another first round pick.


Miami just added a proven 20 ppg pg who should be good for the next 2 years, you have a pretty good replacement for Butler in Jaquez Jr and you have the stabilizing force in Bam just now entering his prime, Miami is in a very good spot now and in the future. What Miami doesn't have is an MVP level talent which from time to time you get from Butler and who knows how long that will be around, if you can find a way to get someone near an MVP level talent to go with that Miami will continue to be a contender. Maybe a vet shakes loose like KD and you can get 2 great seasons from him. Until then I think it's Miami's FO hope that Herro somehow gets to a dominate scorer level instead of just a volume scorer level.


That is not happening.
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Re: Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0 

Post#252 » by AirP. » Thu Jan 25, 2024 7:21 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
He’s already got his money, that’s besides the point. What is his value on the trade market?

Which of the following scenarios is Herros trade value the highest:

Scenario 1: starting and averaging 22-6-4 on nearly career low efficiency, we win a play in game to make the playoffs and get bounced the 1st, maybe 2nd round at best.

Scenario 2: off the bench but is in our closing lineup and literally just replicates his 6MOY play at 21-5-4 on better efficiency, we go on a hit streak and snag the 4 seed and make it back to the NBA finals or potentially even win the championship because we’ve upgraded the roster and our lineups and everything is now flowing much better

Did Tyler lose trade value in scenario 2 because he was coming off the bench compared to scenario 1? Absolutely not.


Money matter to the team. They have money slotted for a 6th man. The CFO will be resistent to approve the salary slot for 6th man


Lmao not if it produces wins


Of course it will. How often does this team pay the tax and that's what Miami currently is in this year and heading right towards next year even though people are acting like the 2nd apron is the new tax line. Just 1 dollar into the tax costs ownership 12+ million in profits from the profit sharing from over the tax teams.
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Re: Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0 

Post#253 » by greg4012 » Thu Jan 25, 2024 7:22 pm

AirP. wrote:
greg4012 wrote:
AirP. wrote:Around 30 million a year for the next 3 years says it has to be a concern. You can't let an asset with that many years left drop in value. Robinson was a unique situation because there was a much better option at that time on the bench, this isn't as clear of change as that one was.


Quality operators don't just pay someone money then say, "hey you're in control now because we paid you". I'm, sorry but I do not subscribe to that whatsoever. They make him believe it's in his interest, as well.

Manu Ginobili was widely recognized as part of Spurs big 3 for most of their championships.

I'm not saying an average Joe can do it. But, a top tier organization has to hold itself to a higher standard.


Herro isn't Ginobili, Herro is on the record saying publicly how good he believes he is and how good he expects to be. It's one thing to think this, it's another thing to put it out for public consumption. He not only said all-star he said SUPERSTAR in the clip below, but he also has an ego which is fine but saying this type of thoughts publicly seems to mean he wants people to know what he thinks.

A second point, he was a scoring 6th man, he won 6th man of the year, he played starter minutes guess what... he wanted to be a starter so I kinda think he will take issue being moved from what he wanted to the position he wanted to no longer be. Riley even said he needed to become a 2 way player to win the spot and guess what, he didn't become a 2 way player, in fact he routinely didn't give effort on the defense end, produced around the same rate except he took more shots and ta-da, he was and currently is still a starter EVEN THOUGH Miami has had more success with him as a 6th man and/or when Robinson has started in his place.

So yeah, I think there will be an issue with Herro being demoted which is what he'll see it at. I feel this strongly about it I thought Miami may just use Rozier as a scoring 6th man not to cause issues but it's pretty apparent that the way Rozier plays will be very beneficial to the starting lineup.

I do find it odd that more people don't expect some type of fallout if a player with a large ego gets demoted to coming off the bench.

It's quite possible to be a talented player that just doesn't fit properly on a team. Rudy Gay a talented player and a good scorer in Memphis and Toronto at around 20 ppg but his old teams seemed to do better once he left.

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Settle for accommodating mindsets and demands of guys in their early 20s. That’s not how it’s done. Agree to disagree on it.
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Re: Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0 

Post#254 » by AirP. » Thu Jan 25, 2024 7:25 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
AirP. wrote:
SoFlaKingReal wrote:Reality has set in....it sucks we just lost another first round pick.


Miami just added a proven 20 ppg pg who should be good for the next 2 years, you have a pretty good replacement for Butler in Jaquez Jr and you have the stabilizing force in Bam just now entering his prime, Miami is in a very good spot now and in the future. What Miami doesn't have is an MVP level talent which from time to time you get from Butler and who knows how long that will be around, if you can find a way to get someone near an MVP level talent to go with that Miami will continue to be a contender. Maybe a vet shakes loose like KD and you can get 2 great seasons from him. Until then I think it's Miami's FO hope that Herro somehow gets to a dominate scorer level instead of just a volume scorer level.


That is not happening.

You usually need an MVP level talent to win a championship, without it you still can be a contender, but not considered a very strong contender. Miami has shown this and it's why Butler is so important. Butler didn't drag the Heat to the playoffs but he did rise to the MVP level at certain times that allowed Miami a chance to get to the finals, without that Miami probably doesn't get out of the first round. Miami needs to find the next mvp level talent OR find that part time mvp level talent like Butler in hopes it'll be enough to get a championship.
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Re: Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0 

Post#255 » by AirP. » Thu Jan 25, 2024 7:30 pm

greg4012 wrote:
AirP. wrote:
greg4012 wrote:
Quality operators don't just pay someone money then say, "hey you're in control now because we paid you". I'm, sorry but I do not subscribe to that whatsoever. They make him believe it's in his interest, as well.

Manu Ginobili was widely recognized as part of Spurs big 3 for most of their championships.

I'm not saying an average Joe can do it. But, a top tier organization has to hold itself to a higher standard.
Spoiler:
Herro isn't Ginobili, Herro is on the record saying publicly how good he believes he is and how good he expects to be. It's one thing to think this, it's another thing to put it out for public consumption. He not only said all-star he said SUPERSTAR in the clip below, but he also has an ego which is fine but saying this type of thoughts publicly seems to mean he wants people to know what he thinks.

A second point, he was a scoring 6th man, he won 6th man of the year, he played starter minutes guess what... he wanted to be a starter so I kinda think he will take issue being moved from what he wanted to the position he wanted to no longer be. Riley even said he needed to become a 2 way player to win the spot and guess what, he didn't become a 2 way player, in fact he routinely didn't give effort on the defense end, produced around the same rate except he took more shots and ta-da, he was and currently is still a starter EVEN THOUGH Miami has had more success with him as a 6th man and/or when Robinson has started in his place.

So yeah, I think there will be an issue with Herro being demoted which is what he'll see it at. I feel this strongly about it I thought Miami may just use Rozier as a scoring 6th man not to cause issues but it's pretty apparent that the way Rozier plays will be very beneficial to the starting lineup.

I do find it odd that more people don't expect some type of fallout if a player with a large ego gets demoted to coming off the bench.

It's quite possible to be a talented player that just doesn't fit properly on a team. Rudy Gay a talented player and a good scorer in Memphis and Toronto at around 20 ppg but his old teams seemed to do better once he left.

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Settle for accommodating mindsets and demands of guys in their early 20s. That’s not how it’s done. Agree to disagree on it.

I'm not saying it's right but that seems to what's been happening with Herro most of his career in Miami. He has the tools to be efficient yet he's not all that efficient, has bad shot selection where he takes a ton of midrange shots although he has a great 3pt shot and is still taking more shots per game then Bam or Butler have ever had, and they powered this team to the finals twice, to the ECF 3 times.
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Re: Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0 

Post#256 » by twix2500 » Thu Jan 25, 2024 7:50 pm

AirP. wrote:
SoFlaKingReal wrote:Reality has set in....it sucks we just lost another first round pick.


Miami just added a proven 20 ppg pg who should be good for the next 2 years, you have a pretty good replacement for Butler in Jaquez Jr and you have the stabilizing force in Bam just now entering his prime, Miami is in a very good spot now and in the future. What Miami doesn't have is an MVP level talent which from time to time you get from Butler and who knows how long that will be around, if you can find a way to get someone near an MVP level talent to go with that Miami will continue to be a contender. Maybe a vet shakes loose like KD and you can get 2 great seasons from him. Until then I think it's Miami's FO hope that Herro somehow gets to a dominate scorer level instead of just a volume scorer level.
Yall be thinking way to far ahead. This roster is very close to be gutted. Riley made a statement at the recently he talked about how long this core been together and eventually its run its course.

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Re: Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0 

Post#257 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Thu Jan 25, 2024 8:22 pm

AirP. wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
Money matter to the team. They have money slotted for a 6th man. The CFO will be resistent to approve the salary slot for 6th man


Lmao not if it produces wins


Of course it will. How often does this team pay the tax and that's what Miami currently is in this year and heading right towards next year even though people are acting like the 2nd apron is the new tax line. Just 1 dollar into the tax costs ownership 12+ million in profits from the profit sharing from over the tax teams.


Nothing im talking about there has anything to do with the luxury tax or 2nd apron lol
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Re: Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0 

Post#258 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Thu Jan 25, 2024 8:25 pm

AirP. wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
AirP. wrote:
Miami just added a proven 20 ppg pg who should be good for the next 2 years, you have a pretty good replacement for Butler in Jaquez Jr and you have the stabilizing force in Bam just now entering his prime, Miami is in a very good spot now and in the future. What Miami doesn't have is an MVP level talent which from time to time you get from Butler and who knows how long that will be around, if you can find a way to get someone near an MVP level talent to go with that Miami will continue to be a contender. Maybe a vet shakes loose like KD and you can get 2 great seasons from him. Until then I think it's Miami's FO hope that Herro somehow gets to a dominate scorer level instead of just a volume scorer level.


That is not happening.

You usually need an MVP level talent to win a championship, without it you still can be a contender, but not considered a very strong contender. Miami has shown this and it's why Butler is so important. Butler didn't drag the Heat to the playoffs but he did rise to the MVP level at certain times that allowed Miami a chance to get to the finals, without that Miami probably doesn't get out of the first round. Miami needs to find the next mvp level talent OR find that part time mvp level talent like Butler in hopes it'll be enough to get a championship.


Yea I think the MVP stuff could happen. If we landed Dame he’d probably be in the MVP convo now despite Jimmy being the better player but yea thats doable, I was speaking to your Herro comment at the end
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Re: Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0 

Post#259 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Thu Jan 25, 2024 8:27 pm

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Re: Miami Heat 2024 Regular Season - Thread 4.0 

Post#260 » by Hoops3355 » Thu Jan 25, 2024 8:28 pm

twix2500 wrote:
AirP. wrote:
SoFlaKingReal wrote:Reality has set in....it sucks we just lost another first round pick.


Miami just added a proven 20 ppg pg who should be good for the next 2 years, you have a pretty good replacement for Butler in Jaquez Jr and you have the stabilizing force in Bam just now entering his prime, Miami is in a very good spot now and in the future. What Miami doesn't have is an MVP level talent which from time to time you get from Butler and who knows how long that will be around, if you can find a way to get someone near an MVP level talent to go with that Miami will continue to be a contender. Maybe a vet shakes loose like KD and you can get 2 great seasons from him. Until then I think it's Miami's FO hope that Herro somehow gets to a dominate scorer level instead of just a volume scorer level.
Yall be thinking way to far ahead. This roster is very close to be gutted. Riley made a statement at the recently he talked about how long this core been together and eventually its run its course.

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Imo I think it's more so Jimmy's team morphing into Bam and friends. I really am curious to what any contract talks have looked like with Jimmy and what he's looking for. Not slighting Jimmy just more so curious what his market value / lenght of contract he's after.
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