Official RJ Barrett Thread

[WuTang_CMB]

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[douggood]

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RJ in all his seasons with knicks, the knicks were bottom 3-4 in assists per game
Raptors are 2nd in assists per game, 1-2 easier shots per game boosts his efg%

knicks this year 2nd worst
last year 3rd worst
21-22 last
20-21 2nd worst
19-20 4th worst

[Fairview4Life]

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We have him driving to the rim more and not shooting long shots as much. And his FG%'s in close are way up for whatever reason.

[sidsid]

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RJ in all his seasons with knicks, the knicks were bottom 3-4 in assists per game
Raptors are 2nd in assists per game, 1-2 easier shots per game boosts his efg%

knicks this year 2nd worst
last year 3rd worst
21-22 last
20-21 2nd worst
19-20 4th worst

The same dynamic that's helped Barnes this year. Nurse/Thibs playing a lot more iso and now they don't have to work from a standstill all the time.

[billy_hoyle]

To build a sustainable team in today's NBA requires 2 core high salary guys and complementary players slotted around them. I think we all agree Scottie is 1 of the 2 moving forward. IQ is the archetype of who you need beside Barnes as the other big salary guy and we'll see if he becomes that.

So does RJ fit the complementary role player type that you need beside Scottie and IQ? He can't shoot the 3 very well. He is not a great defender, not big enough to slide down and not fast enough to slide up. He needs the ball to be effective and is taking more usage than IQ and the same usage as Scottie - not ideal. I just don't see any long term path for him if we are moving forward with Scottie and a lead guard as our 2 guys - unless he becomes a very different player than he has been so far.

We're in rebuild mode. We have to look long term. If we do look long term, RJ makes little sense. It's not hate, it's understanding the context of the situation we're currently in.

From watching the games it looks like IQ is the ideal complimentary piece at ~$20-25m dollars.

I have no idea how you see RJ play much better, be younger and call him the complimentary player only, if anything he's shown more. That said both look like complimentary players.

I think we are still missing our second star, they will be a SF/PF/stretch 5.

We keep IQ and RJ to see what type of chemistry and stylistic need we have once we discover who that second star is.

I didn't say IQ is the 2nd player, I said his archetype is what you want beside Barnes. If one of your guys is Barnes, your 2nd one can't be a weirdly sized wing that can't shoot 3s and has limited shot creation ability beyond driving to the rim against smaller defenders. There is no world where Barret makes sense as a number 2 and a slightly higher chance he turns out being a player that first with Barnes and the IQ archetype.

I agree that you would want the IQ archetype next to Barnes. That said, why would you NOT want a bruising slashing shooting guard?

That's not a poor fit IMO. Is Ant Edwards a poor fit next to Barnes and IQ?

Winning teams have been built around:
Elite shooting, paint touching, good D PG
Bruising slashing SG
3&D SF
Playmaking All NBA PF
Fundamental, good passing C

This is very similiar to the Webber Kings.

[Basketball_Jones]

RJ love is so weird. You all were begging for 3 point shooters around Scottie but are now slotting a 33% 3pt shooter as our SG of the future?

He’s shooting well though and helps replace the driving ability we lost with Siakam. Let’s see if his 3 pointer continues to fall. Ultimately it’s not like we can have 4 Luke Kennards around Scottie.

[sidsid]

RJ love is so weird. You all were begging for 3 point shooters around Scottie but are now slotting a 33% 3pt shooter as our SG of the future?

He’s shooting well though and helps replace the driving ability we lost with Siakam. Let’s see if his 3 pointer continues to fall. Ultimately it’s not like we can have 4 Luke Kennards around Scottie.

He's still a guy I'd have coming off the bench because he's just not a defender or a shooter and we need one of those things if we're really looking to build the engine around Scottie (the hub, if it ever happens) starting. This is still why Gary would be a better fit if we played that way, even though he doesn't defend.

But Jak starting is in the way of that anyway. It's a version of Derozan's weird fit all over again.

[Clutch0z24]

RJ love is so weird. You all were begging for 3 point shooters around Scottie but are now slotting a 33% 3pt shooter as our SG of the future?

Well there are different aspects to the game....What Barrett brings also serves a purpose and you need a player like him on your team...Someone who is constantly attacking the basket + Body type to bang with guys and draw fouls....Problem with the team goes deeper than just shooting imo...Though thats a big problem we have we can still find shooters as time goes on...Even if we had bench players who are capable 3 point shooters would go along way...

IQ/Barrett/Barnes works if you add a 3&D SF And a stretch C who can block shots....But we are far from done building this team....So can't judge a book thats not finished yet.

[Prestige]

His shot looks weird. But as long as he can make that form work, no worries. I’ve seen worse.

[ForeverTFC]

RJ love is so weird. You all were begging for 3 point shooters around Scottie but are now slotting a 33% 3pt shooter as our SG of the future?

Well there are different aspects to the game....What Barrett brings also serves a purpose and you need a player like him on your team...Someone who is constantly attacking the basket + Body type to bang with guys and draw fouls....Problem with the team goes deeper than just shooting imo...Though thats a big problem we have we can still find shooters as time goes on...Even if we had bench players who are capable 3 point shooters would go along way...

IQ/Barrett/Barnes works if you add a 3&D SF And a stretch C who can block shots....But we are far from done building this team....So can't judge a book thats not finished yet.

But this is my point: how are you going to pay a stretch C and a 3&D wing (2 of the most expensive role player archetypes out there) when you have someone like RJ on the roster. I wish he was an above average defender, but he's a net negative on that end. The biggest needs around a Scottie/IQ core are spacing and perimeter defense, so it's hard to build the roster when your 3rd highest paid player brings neither to the table.

[Psubs]

From watching the games it looks like IQ is the ideal complimentary piece at ~$20-25m dollars.

I have no idea how you see RJ play much better, be younger and call him the complimentary player only, if anything he's shown more. That said both look like complimentary players.

I think we are still missing our second star, they will be a SF/PF/stretch 5.

We keep IQ and RJ to see what type of chemistry and stylistic need we have once we discover who that second star is.

I didn't say IQ is the 2nd player, I said his archetype is what you want beside Barnes. If one of your guys is Barnes, your 2nd one can't be a weirdly sized wing that can't shoot 3s and has limited shot creation ability beyond driving to the rim against smaller defenders. There is no world where Barret makes sense as a number 2 and a slightly higher chance he turns out being a player that first with Barnes and the IQ archetype.

I agree that you would want the IQ archetype next to Barnes. That said, why would you NOT want a bruising slashing shooting guard?

That's not a poor fit IMO. Is Ant Edwards a poor fit next to Barnes and IQ?

Winning teams have been built around:
Elite shooting, paint touching, good D PG
Bruising slashing SG
3&D SF
Playmaking All NBA PF
Fundamental, good passing C

This is very similiar to the Webber Kings.

Barrett can learn more counter moves like Derozan in the lane, with pump fakes, get a little stronger a little quicker, better shooter. Barrett at age 27 could be an allstar and better than Siakam ever was. If Barnes is a #1, I could see Barrett as a #2 like Paul George.

Edwards is Super Max likely. I'm really excited for Melvin Ajinca who shot 49% from 3 in the U19 tournament. Using the LAC 1st pick, he'd be cheap and controllable for many years.

[Psubs]

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We have him driving to the rim more and not shooting long shots as much. And his FG%'s in close are way up for whatever reason.

Also we play with the C as a passer at the top of the key, rather than Thibs who had Mitchell Robinson in the dunker's spot, so the lane other there is a little more congested with a possible shot-blocking defender.

[ForeverTFC]

I didn't say IQ is the 2nd player, I said his archetype is what you want beside Barnes. If one of your guys is Barnes, your 2nd one can't be a weirdly sized wing that can't shoot 3s and has limited shot creation ability beyond driving to the rim against smaller defenders. There is no world where Barret makes sense as a number 2 and a slightly higher chance he turns out being a player that first with Barnes and the IQ archetype.

I agree that you would want the IQ archetype next to Barnes. That said, why would you NOT want a bruising slashing shooting guard?

That's not a poor fit IMO. Is Ant Edwards a poor fit next to Barnes and IQ?

Winning teams have been built around:
Elite shooting, paint touching, good D PG
Bruising slashing SG
3&D SF
Playmaking All NBA PF
Fundamental, good passing C

This is very similiar to the Webber Kings.

Barrett can learn more counter moves like Derozan in the lane, with pump fakes, get a little stronger a little quicker, better shooter. Barrett at age 27 could be an allstar and better than Siakam ever was. If Barnes is a #1, I could see Barrett as a #2 like Paul George.

Edwards is Super Max likely. I'm really excited for Melvin Ajinca who shot 49% from 3 in the U19 tournament. Using the LAC 1st pick, he'd be cheap and controllable for many years.

Pascal was 2nd team All-NBA in his 4th year. RJ was included largely as salary filler in a trade in his 5th year. This is exactly what I'm talking about with the RJ love-fest here. He's been fine with us but let's not lose sight of who RJ Barrett has been as a player for the last 4 years.

[CazOnReal]

RJ not having to deal with Randle hogging his spots/being relegated to spotting up when he's a slasher is numero uno why he's been better.

The 3 point shooting will probably come down to earth but the finishing does seem real.

[ash_k]

I just find it surprising how both Masai and Darko keep going about
1.Scottie
2.IQ
3.and....RJ

At this point, I almost expect RJ to lead us in scoring moving forward. The game goes way too fast to ask Scottie, to be the leading scorer, rebounder, passer, stealer, blocker while defending the best player; while playing Point Forward

[billy_hoyle]

I agree that you would want the IQ archetype next to Barnes. That said, why would you NOT want a bruising slashing shooting guard?

That's not a poor fit IMO. Is Ant Edwards a poor fit next to Barnes and IQ?

Winning teams have been built around:
Elite shooting, paint touching, good D PG
Bruising slashing SG
3&D SF
Playmaking All NBA PF
Fundamental, good passing C

This is very similiar to the Webber Kings.

Barrett can learn more counter moves like Derozan in the lane, with pump fakes, get a little stronger a little quicker, better shooter. Barrett at age 27 could be an allstar and better than Siakam ever was. If Barnes is a #1, I could see Barrett as a #2 like Paul George.

Edwards is Super Max likely. I'm really excited for Melvin Ajinca who shot 49% from 3 in the U19 tournament. Using the LAC 1st pick, he'd be cheap and controllable for many years.

Pascal was 2nd team All-NBA in his 4th year. RJ was included largely as salary filler in a trade in his 4th year. This is exactly what I'm talking about with the RJ love-fest here. He's been fine with us but let's not lose sight of who RJ Barrett has been as a player for the last 4 years.

I agree. That's disrespectful to Pascal to compare them right now. All NBA is a huge honor, and I'm not sure RJ has that in him. I wouldn't say never, he is a highly ranked prospect and a decent raw numbers guy as a freshman drafty.

Pascal was 25 when he made that leap, RJ is still only 23. Development in the NBA isn't linear, Pascal himself is one of the biggest examples of that. Pascal at 23 was putting up 7-4-2.

[pingpongrac]

I agree that you would want the IQ archetype next to Barnes. That said, why would you NOT want a bruising slashing shooting guard?

That's not a poor fit IMO. Is Ant Edwards a poor fit next to Barnes and IQ?

Winning teams have been built around:
Elite shooting, paint touching, good D PG
Bruising slashing SG
3&D SF
Playmaking All NBA PF
Fundamental, good passing C

This is very similiar to the Webber Kings.

Barrett can learn more counter moves like Derozan in the lane, with pump fakes, get a little stronger a little quicker, better shooter. Barrett at age 27 could be an allstar and better than Siakam ever was. If Barnes is a #1, I could see Barrett as a #2 like Paul George.

Edwards is Super Max likely. I'm really excited for Melvin Ajinca who shot 49% from 3 in the U19 tournament. Using the LAC 1st pick, he'd be cheap and controllable for many years.

Pascal was 2nd team All-NBA in his 4th year. RJ was included largely as salary filler in a trade in his 5th year. This is exactly what I'm talking about with the RJ love-fest here. He's been fine with us but let's not lose sight of who RJ Barrett has been as a player for the last 4 years.

Yes, but let's also not lose sight of the fact that Barrett is 23 and came into the league as a high-ranked prospect then was stuck in a situation that wasn't exactly conducive to his success as the Knicks were a very ISO-heavy team (top 10 in ISO frequency all 5 seasons) that didn't share the ball at all (bottom 10 in AST% all 5 seasons with 3 seasons of them placing 29th or 30th). Everything he is doing right now with us is generally sustainable while he still has a lot of room for growth.

We've seen quite a few instances recently of a high-ranked prospect not really living up to the hype with the team that drafted them then suddenly they make a leap with a new team in their early-to-mid 20s. Ingram, Markkanen and Oladipo come to mind as guys that made the leap to all-star level players with a new team while Bridges (who was elite in his role in Phoenix) and Lonzo are a couple others to a lesser extent. Barrett has the potential to be another of those cases.

[Chandan]

RJ love is so weird. You all were begging for 3 point shooters around Scottie but are now slotting a 33% 3pt shooter as our SG of the future?

He’s shooting well though and helps replace the driving ability we lost with Siakam. Let’s see if his 3 pointer continues to fall. Ultimately it’s not like we can have 4 Luke Kennards around Scottie.

He's still a guy I'd have coming off the bench because he's just not a defender or a shooter and we need one of those things if we're really looking to build the engine around Scottie (the hub, if it ever happens) starting. This is still why Gary would be a better fit if we played that way, even though he doesn't defend.

But Jak starting is in the way of that anyway. It's a version of Derozan's weird fit all over again.

If RJ is going to come off the bench, it won't be on this team or this stage in his career.

[Ackshun]

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Many in NY believe Randle stunted his growth.

[Boogie!]

I didn't say IQ is the 2nd player, I said his archetype is what you want beside Barnes. If one of your guys is Barnes, your 2nd one can't be a weirdly sized wing that can't shoot 3s and has limited shot creation ability beyond driving to the rim against smaller defenders. There is no world where Barret makes sense as a number 2 and a slightly higher chance he turns out being a player that first with Barnes and the IQ archetype.

I agree that you would want the IQ archetype next to Barnes. That said, why would you NOT want a bruising slashing shooting guard?

That's not a poor fit IMO. Is Ant Edwards a poor fit next to Barnes and IQ?

Winning teams have been built around:
Elite shooting, paint touching, good D PG
Bruising slashing SG
3&D SF
Playmaking All NBA PF
Fundamental, good passing C

This is very similiar to the Webber Kings.

Barrett can learn more counter moves like Derozan in the lane, with pump fakes, get a little stronger a little quicker, better shooter. Barrett at age 27 could be an allstar and better than Siakam ever was. If Barnes is a #1, I could see Barrett as a #2 like Paul George.

Edwards is Super Max likely. I'm really excited for Melvin Ajinca who shot 49% from 3 in the U19 tournament. Using the LAC 1st pick, he'd be cheap and controllable for many years.

Barnes is not a 1. Barrett has more tools to be a 1.