Official Trade Thread Part XLVI

[DCZards]

PIF, I believe Poole and Kuz would HAVE to play differently if they were with the Spurs under Pop…or Miami under Spo….

No doubt about it. To play for Pop, Kuz would have to become a far more disciplined player. Moreover, in Kuz’s two best years (his last in LA & his first with us), he was far more disciplined than he is now.

….nor do I have a problem with Kuz’s play most nights….

Is there a problem with "Kuz's play most nights?" &, if so, what is it?

I should have been clearer and said: When I have a problem with Kuz's play it's usually with his decision making.

[payitforward]

Fair enough. In my case, I don't have that problem with Kuz's play. After all, it seems likely that what he's doing is, essentially, what they ask him to attempt to do.

It's pretty simple: he just isn't good enough to be successful doing what they are asking him to do. I can't fault him for that! I give him credit, as well, for averaging over 5 assists per 40 minutes. I don't see him as a selfish player, in other words.

In any case, of course, the rebuilding Wizards would never have been anything like a "good" team this year.
For that matter, we haven't been anything like good for several years.

In fact, if "good" means no more than above average (& what else could it mean really?), then the Washington Wizards have been a "good" team exactly 4 times over the last 16 years.

Just as we are not a "good" NBA team, so too Kyle Kuzma is not a "good" NBA player. But, he seems to be a good teammate, & he seems to be a good person as well (at least to the extent that we can tell from what we hear of him).

[Runner300]

As I see it - tanking isn't working well as a strategy for the Wizards.
If you win, your players' individual stats improve, along with their trade value.
If you tank - you improve your chances for 1 single lottery pick, but your 4, maybe 5 tradeable players lose value considerably.

So for a team that has more than 1 tradeable asset, it's always a good idea to try and win every game.
Pretty obvious, no?

[nate33]

As I see it - tanking isn't working well as a strategy for the Wizards.
If you win, your players' individual stats improve, along with their trade value.
If you tank - you improve your chances for 1 single lottery pick, but your 4, maybe 5 tradeable players lose value considerably.

So for a team that has more than 1 tradeable asset, it's always a good idea to try and win every game.
Pretty obvious, no?

I wouldn't say that.

I would say that there is a fine line in how you tank. You want to tank with dignity and look halfway competitive while finishing as the 4th worst team in the league at 25-ish wins. Basically about what Portland is doing now. I think that's actually what the Wizards were aiming for. They missed the mark because they didn't anticipate Poole being this bad.

I agree that the miserable performance of the team is tanking the trade value of guys like Tyus, Wright and Kuzma.

[Frichuela]

Ok, this is a trade fantasy attempt to get rid of both Poole and Kuzma in the same trade...First some background:

1) DET is rumored to have interest in Lavine.
2) SAC is rumored to be very keen on Kuzma.
3) CHI is in need of vet talent (particularly at the PF position) while have the dead money of Ball in their books.
4) WAS was rumored to have interest in Pat Williams in the past.

So, the trade particulars:

DET gets Lavine + Johnny Davis and trades Harris+Burks+Hayes+DET 2029 1st
SAC gets Kuzma and trades Barnes+Huerter+ SAC 2026 1st
CHI gets Poole+Barnes+Huerter+DET 2029 1st+couple of WAS 2nds and trades Lavine+Ball+Pat Williams+POR 2024 1st (lottery protected until 2028)
WIZ gets Pat Williams+Ball+expirings (Harris+Burks+Hayes)+ SAC 2026 1st+POR 2024 1st (lottery protected until 2028) for Poole+Kuzma+Davis+couple of our many 2nds.

Essentially, the Wiz get Pat Williams + 1 more year of Ball's dead money + a couple of future 1st rounders (SAC and POR) while trading away both Kuzma and Poole.

The trade works in the ESPN trade machine..

[nate33]

Ok, this is a trade fantasy attempt to get rid of both Poole and Kuzma in the same trade...First some background:

1) DET is rumored to have interest in Lavine.
2) SAC is rumored to be very keen on Kuzma.
3) CHI is in need of vet talent (particularly at the PF position) while have the dead money of Ball in their books.
4) WAS was rumored to have interest in Pat Williams in the past.

So, the trade particulars:

DET gets Lavine + Johnny Davis and trades Harris+Burks+Hayes+DET 2029 1st
SAC gets Kuzma and trades Barnes+Huerter+ SAC 2026 1st
CHI gets Poole+Barnes+Huerter+DET 2029 1st+couple of WAS 2nds and trades Lavine+Ball+Pat Williams+POR 2024 1st (lottery protected until 2028)
WIZ gets Pat Williams+Ball+expirings (Harris+Burks+Hayes)+ SAC 2026 1st+POR 2024 1st (lottery protected until 2028) for Poole+Kuzma+Davis+couple of our many 2nds.

Essentially, the Wiz get Pat Williams + 1 more year of Ball's dead money + a couple of future 1st rounders (SAC and POR) while trading away both Kuzma and Poole.

The trade works in the ESPN trade machine..

Without thinking too deeply about this trade, I think the idea of trying to trade Poole is counter-productive. We all understand that he is a negative asset with a salary that damages a team's flexibility. But the way things stand right now, the Wizards are least harmed by having bad salary on their books. (Chances are, we're going to need to try and find some bad contracts to get up to the cap minimum.) So Poole hurts us less than he hurts anyone else. With that dynamic in play, there really isn't a scenario where someone else will trade us something that is less bad than Poole is, because from their perspective, Poole is even worse for them than he is for us.

Your trade has a lot of moving parts which might obscure this issue, so let's just try and break out the Poole part. Chicago is basically trading Ball for Poole. Would they really do that? I say no.

[Frichuela]

Ok, this is a trade fantasy attempt to get rid of both Poole and Kuzma in the same trade...First some background:

1) DET is rumored to have interest in Lavine.
2) SAC is rumored to be very keen on Kuzma.
3) CHI is in need of vet talent (particularly at the PF position) while have the dead money of Ball in their books.
4) WAS was rumored to have interest in Pat Williams in the past.

So, the trade particulars:

DET gets Lavine + Johnny Davis and trades Harris+Burks+Hayes+DET 2029 1st
SAC gets Kuzma and trades Barnes+Huerter+ SAC 2026 1st
CHI gets Poole+Barnes+Huerter+DET 2029 1st+couple of WAS 2nds and trades Lavine+Ball+Pat Williams+POR 2024 1st (lottery protected until 2028)
WIZ gets Pat Williams+Ball+expirings (Harris+Burks+Hayes)+ SAC 2026 1st+POR 2024 1st (lottery protected until 2028) for Poole+Kuzma+Davis+couple of our many 2nds.

Essentially, the Wiz get Pat Williams + 1 more year of Ball's dead money + a couple of future 1st rounders (SAC and POR) while trading away both Kuzma and Poole.

The trade works in the ESPN trade machine..

Without thinking too deeply about this trade, I think the idea of trying to trade Poole is counter-productive. We all understand that he is a negative asset with a salary that damages a team's flexibility. But the way things stand right now, the Wizards are least harmed by having bad salary on their books. (Chances are, we're going to need to try and find some bad contracts to get up to the cap minimum.) So Poole hurts us less than he hurts anyone else. With that dynamic in play, there really isn't a scenario where someone else will trade us something that is less bad than Poole is, because from their perspective, Poole is even worse for them than he is for us.

Your trade has a lot of moving parts which might obscure this issue, so let's just try and break out the Poole part. Chicago is basically trading Ball for Poole. Would they really do that? I say no.

I'm afraid you are right. Just a fantasy attempt

In reality, we are stuck with Poole and better hope that a new head coach can rein him in.

Watching Poole night in and night out is painful as a fan, what a basketball calamity. And sadly the advanced stats back the eye test.

[penbeast0]

Breaking this out, you say SAC deals Barnes, Huerter, and their 2026 1st (unprotected?) for Kuzma. I think we take that and then try to deal the two vets for whatever we can get. It's really good value even with no need for Huerter.

OF course, if I'm SAC, I'm not sure I'd make that deal even if the pick were fully lottery protected.

[Frichuela]

Breaking this out, you say SAC deals Barnes, Huerter, and their 2026 1st (unprotected?) for Kuzma. I think we take that and then try to deal the two vets for whatever we can get. It's really good value even with no need for Huerter.

OF course, if I'm SAC, I'm not sure I'd make that deal even if the pick were fully lottery protected.

That's the framework. SAC has been rumored to like Kuzma a lot through the years. And this season, they appear disenchanted with the performance of Barnes and Huerter. As you say, the pick will likely be protected and ideally the Wiz would reroute Barnes and Huerter for additional draft compensation and/or younger players.

[WallToWall]

Ok, this is a trade fantasy attempt to get rid of both Poole and Kuzma in the same trade...

We would need multi-player trades in order to trade Poole right now. We may be better off keeping him and seeing if he improves for us and/or the trade market.

[Frichuela]

Ok, this is a trade fantasy attempt to get rid of both Poole and Kuzma in the same trade...

We would need multi-player trades in order to trade Poole right now. We may be better off keeping him and seeing if he improves for us and/or the trade market.

Agreed.

Here is another hypothetical trade based on rumors circulating on Twitter:


WAS gets Kuminga+Isaac+Gary Harris (expiry)+DEN 2025 1st+GS 2028 1st (or lower protections on the 2030 1st we own).
GS gets Kuzma+Wright
ORL gets Paul

Rumors:

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=GWeuz7j_sc5cBYZzdD92Tw

[payitforward]

I don't see GS having any interest whatever in that trade idea. Here's where the so-called "rumor" began: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10106229-surprise-landing-spots-for-rumored-nba-trade-deadline-targets

This guy thinks we might even get Podziemski &/or TJ-D in the deal. Deluded.

[TGW]

Haha that would be a master fleecing if that trade happened.

[gambitx777]

Not only that but we already sorted out we can't get CP3 back in a trade

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[Dark Faze]

I could see the trade happening without inclusion of the '28 first. So basically Kuminga + Denver '25 + filler for Kuz. Kuz is the better player and likely will be for the next couple of years at least.

I think you accept that for sure if you're GS imo, though I don't know if the upgrade improves their chances significantly. They are a middling to bad team in overall rankings for offense and defense.

I'm kind of meh on the trade in that I can see the FO feeling compelled to extend Kuminga despite him not really being good. Shades of the Hachimura contract in LA.

[closg00]

Read on Twitter

[tontoz]

Read on Twitter

So Leonsis hires new mgt and then starts meddling in less than a year.

[TGW]

I think they were already trying to do that, so the "mandate" is really just lip service (and I'm not buying anything from Lebron's fat stalker on Wizards related news).

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Read on Twitter

So Leonsis hires new mgt and then starts meddling in less than a year.

It would be so Wizards for us to trade just 23 year-old Deni and keep Kuzma and Poole. I'm going to say Winger and Dawkins are not stupid, so unless we are getting back a haul for Deni, I'm just going to make believe the interest is coming from other teams and not us shopping him.

[FAH1223]

Read on Twitter

So Leonsis hires new mgt and then starts meddling in less than a year.

It's 3-4 years too late but it should have been the mandate a long time ago.

I don't think its much different than what Michael and Will are planning to do anyway.