Official NBA General Discussion 2023-24 V1.0

[HumbleRen]

You don’t build a roster around Siakam and OG. They’re not good enough offensive options to do that.

You add them to an established core. That’s how you “build” around them.

Masai was never going to be able to do that while Siakamc FVV and OG are seeking that much money on their next contacts. Which is why half of the fanbase on this board called for a rebuild 2 years ago because we saw this coming.

Siakam, OG and Barnes. Some teams would kill for that three man core. There's a world where a great team could have been built around them. But since the championship every personnel move was underwhelming or a failure except Scottie.

A team with no number is is not winning anything

I don’t think you can convince them even though a core of OG, Siakam and Barnes went under .500 for the last year and half lol.

It’s easier to pretend that nothing was wrong and that it was a great core rather than accept that it was a core that underachieved on top of Siakam and OG quitting on the team and fanbase with their lack of effort on defence for the last 2 months.

[Tha Cynic]

Masai needs to do a better job of selling his players lol. If you look at the history of all his main players they have had tremendous impact on their new teams. If I'm trading any of them I bring up all the former players who are on other teams and tell them - this is what you're getting. Too bad they're all gone already lol. We need to hope our current development is as good.

It also shows what a joke people in NBA circles are and how little attention they pay to Toronto. But when people in America openly admit they didn't really know how good Jokic was, you know there's a culture issue there in the media lol

[bballsparkin]

I don’t think you can convince them even though a core of OG, Siakam and Barnes went under .500 for the last year and half lol.

It’s easier to pretend that nothing was wrong and that it was a great core rather than accept that it was a core that underachieved on top of Siakam and OG quitting on the team and fanbase with their lack of effort on defence for the last 2 months.

Which doesn't even take into consideration the reality that all three players are due for big pay days soon.

[WaltFrazier]

Siakam, OG and Barnes. Some teams would kill for that three man core. There's a world where a great team could have been built around them. But since the championship every personnel move was underwhelming or a failure except Scottie.

A team with no number is is not winning anything

I don’t think you can convince them even though a core of OG, Siakam and Barnes went under .500 for the last year and half lol.

It’s easier to pretend that nothing was wrong and that it was a great core rather than accept that it was a core that underachieved on top of Siakam and OG quitting on the team and fanbase with their lack of effort on defence for the last 2 months.

The last two months? This season was too late. Go back two years, after giving the Sixers a good series. With Birch and Achiuwa as centers and Fred hurt. Couldn't that team have been improved upon by getting a C and a scorer? As opposed to making no improvement. You keep talking about the core not doing great and ignoring they were surrounded by the worst bench in the league, with no shooting and poor balance.

[bballsparkin]

^^We building a new core now Walt. That's how you get a bench with shooting and balance. The cycle of sports.

[ciueli]

We had OG and Siakam on our roster, home grown, in their prime. This is so depressing.

Thibs has
Brunson
DiVin
OG
Randle
Sims ....thinking they can do something
Hard to believe we just couldn't do anything with
OG
Scottie
Pascal
Jak
Denis...12-19...hard to believe

Raps had a special core but Masai failed to add the right pieces to it. In his post Pascal trade speech he said how much he believed in the group, which sounds nice. But he did a terrible job of adding to it.

A starting 5 with only 2 3 point shooters in this era is terrible, there’s a good reason it was broken up. The only way to build a good team with Siakam is to have a stretch C and shooting at every other position, the Pacers have that and we didn’t, blame Masai for trading away Norm and trading for Jak.

[Madvillainy2004]

All ima say is the Cavs better pray to God they don't see OG and the Knicks in the playoffs or its gonna get real ugly for them again (I hope it happens lol).

[artsncrafts]

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[HumbleRen]

A team with no number is is not winning anything

I don’t think you can convince them even though a core of OG, Siakam and Barnes went under .500 for the last year and half lol.

It’s easier to pretend that nothing was wrong and that it was a great core rather than accept that it was a core that underachieved on top of Siakam and OG quitting on the team and fanbase with their lack of effort on defence for the last 2 months.

The last two months? This season was too late. Go back two years, after giving the Sixers a good series. With Birch and Achiuwa as centers and Fred hurt. Couldn't that team have been improved upon by getting a C and a scorer? As opposed to making no improvement. You keep talking about the core not doing great and ignoring they were surrounded by the worst bench in the league, with no shooting and poor balance.

So waste assets on a team where OG, FVV and Siakam are all going to get $40M + each ? They did it once with Yak, the player that you were begging for and they still weren’t good enough.

You’re asking for the impossible Walt.

The only reason why the Knicks are able to do what they’re doing right now is because Randle and Brunson are making less than Jordan Poole.

We aren’t afforded that luxury, FVV, OG and Siakam were getting their money one way or another.

[WaltFrazier]

I don’t think you can convince them even though a core of OG, Siakam and Barnes went under .500 for the last year and half lol.

It’s easier to pretend that nothing was wrong and that it was a great core rather than accept that it was a core that underachieved on top of Siakam and OG quitting on the team and fanbase with their lack of effort on defence for the last 2 months.

The last two months? This season was too late. Go back two years, after giving the Sixers a good series. With Birch and Achiuwa as centers and Fred hurt. Couldn't that team have been improved upon by getting a C and a scorer? As opposed to making no improvement. You keep talking about the core not doing great and ignoring they were surrounded by the worst bench in the league, with no shooting and poor balance.

So waste assets on a team where OG, FVV and Siakam are all going to get $40M + each ? They did it once with Yak, the player that you were begging for and they still weren’t good enough.

You’re asking for the impossible Walt.

The only reason why the Knicks are able to do what they’re doing right now is because Randle and Brunson are making less than Jordan Poole.

We aren’t afforded that luxury, FVV, OG and Siakam were getting their money one way or another.

FVV! Nah I never wanted him back. A younger quicker replacement yes

Yeah I wanted Jak badly at the time cause we went so stupidly long with no C. But I see now Turner would have been better, or a cheaper young energy C.

Maybe you're right it wasn't doable, but I wish they'd tried.

Anyway I'm happy watching Knicks games now, except they're not all on TV here. Just still sad at how a great team was allowed to fall apart so badly.

[HumbleRen]

The last two months? This season was too late. Go back two years, after giving the Sixers a good series. With Birch and Achiuwa as centers and Fred hurt. Couldn't that team have been improved upon by getting a C and a scorer? As opposed to making no improvement. You keep talking about the core not doing great and ignoring they were surrounded by the worst bench in the league, with no shooting and poor balance.

So waste assets on a team where OG, FVV and Siakam are all going to get $40M + each ? They did it once with Yak, the player that you were begging for and they still weren’t good enough.

You’re asking for the impossible Walt.

The only reason why the Knicks are able to do what they’re doing right now is because Randle and Brunson are making less than Jordan Poole.

We aren’t afforded that luxury, FVV, OG and Siakam were getting their money one way or another.

FVV! Nah I never wanted him back. A younger quicker replacement yes

Yeah I wanted Jak badly at the time cause we went so stupidly long with no C. But I see now Turner would have been better, or a cheaper young energy C.

Maybe you're right it wasn't doable, but I wish they'd tried.

Anyway I'm happy watching Knicks games now, except they're not all on TV here. Just still sad at how a great team was allowed to fall apart so badly.

It stopped being a great team the moment Kawhi and Lowry left.

I made my peace with it years ago which is why I was advocating for a rebuild after the Tampa season.

These guys helped bring a championship here, there’s nothing else they needed to achieve here. Siakam and OG are in better situations, OG can finally display his talents in the biggest media market. Siakam can play what’s left of his prime on a playoff contender.

The Raptors can finally do a rebuild without the burden of trying to appease everyone.

I’m at peace with it, I hope others can be too eventually.

[sidsid]

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[WaltFrazier]

So waste assets on a team where OG, FVV and Siakam are all going to get $40M + each ? They did it once with Yak, the player that you were begging for and they still weren’t good enough.

You’re asking for the impossible Walt.

The only reason why the Knicks are able to do what they’re doing right now is because Randle and Brunson are making less than Jordan Poole.

We aren’t afforded that luxury, FVV, OG and Siakam were getting their money one way or another.

FVV! Nah I never wanted him back. A younger quicker replacement yes

Yeah I wanted Jak badly at the time cause we went so stupidly long with no C. But I see now Turner would have been better, or a cheaper young energy C.

Maybe you're right it wasn't doable, but I wish they'd tried.

Anyway I'm happy watching Knicks games now, except they're not all on TV here. Just still sad at how a great team was allowed to fall apart so badly.

It stopped being a great team the moment Kawhi and Lowry left.

I made my peace with it years ago which is why I was advocating for a rebuild after the Tampa season.

These guys helped bring a championship here, there’s nothing else they needed to achieve here. Siakam and OG are in better situations, OG can finally display his talents in the biggest media market. Siakam can play what’s left of his prime on a playoff contender.

The Raptors can finally do a rebuild without the burden of trying to appease everyone.

I’m at peace with it, I hope others can be too eventually.

I hear ya, but I'm rolling with Norm on this one.

https://www.si.com/nba/clippers/news/raptors-champion-reveals-being-hurt-by-trade

"I didn't wanna leave Toronto," Powell said. "I didn't wanna leave Toronto if I'm being dead serious. I wanted to stay. I always felt that the team that we had, the youth that we had, that core that we had, could've been what Boston is now. If you kept us all together... That young core we were rocking with in Toronto, we always thought we were gonna be the next up... When I got traded, it hurt. It hurt Fred [VanVleet], too... I didn't wanna leave Toronto, I thought we had something special."

Having won a championship in 2019, Powell felt that young Raptors core was a couple additions away from being special, even after the departure of Kawhi Leonard.

[Boogie!]

FVV! Nah I never wanted him back. A younger quicker replacement yes

Yeah I wanted Jak badly at the time cause we went so stupidly long with no C. But I see now Turner would have been better, or a cheaper young energy C.

Maybe you're right it wasn't doable, but I wish they'd tried.

Anyway I'm happy watching Knicks games now, except they're not all on TV here. Just still sad at how a great team was allowed to fall apart so badly.

It stopped being a great team the moment Kawhi and Lowry left.

I made my peace with it years ago which is why I was advocating for a rebuild after the Tampa season.

These guys helped bring a championship here, there’s nothing else they needed to achieve here. Siakam and OG are in better situations, OG can finally display his talents in the biggest media market. Siakam can play what’s left of his prime on a playoff contender.

The Raptors can finally do a rebuild without the burden of trying to appease everyone.

I’m at peace with it, I hope others can be too eventually.

I hear ya, but I'm rolling with Norm on this one.

https://www.si.com/nba/clippers/news/raptors-champion-reveals-being-hurt-by-trade

"I didn't wanna leave Toronto," Powell said. "I didn't wanna leave Toronto if I'm being dead serious. I wanted to stay. I always felt that the team that we had, the youth that we had, that core that we had, could've been what Boston is now. If you kept us all together... That young core we were rocking with in Toronto, we always thought we were gonna be the next up... When I got traded, it hurt. It hurt Fred [VanVleet], too... I didn't wanna leave Toronto, I thought we had something special."

Having won a championship in 2019, Powell felt that young Raptors core was a couple additions away from being special, even after the departure of Kawhi Leonard.

I still don’t understand why the raptors didn’t want keep norm after consistently improving, breaking out, and then still being the same age as fvv and siakam, but felt he was the one needed to be replaced to go younger? It made no sense… he’s been just as consistent offensively soncehe was traded too… and he already had chemistry with everyone… I’m not sure what was in their heads at the time… media liked to scapegoat his defense too… fvv, norm, og, siakam, poeltl with Barnes and shooters off the bench actually could’ve been a good team…

That being said I never really liked fvv being such a focal point… too inefficient.

[Syd-TK3]

Kuminga has been very good lately I must admit. Warriors still can't win lol but I understand the belief in him

[HumbleRen]

FVV! Nah I never wanted him back. A younger quicker replacement yes

Yeah I wanted Jak badly at the time cause we went so stupidly long with no C. But I see now Turner would have been better, or a cheaper young energy C.

Maybe you're right it wasn't doable, but I wish they'd tried.

Anyway I'm happy watching Knicks games now, except they're not all on TV here. Just still sad at how a great team was allowed to fall apart so badly.

It stopped being a great team the moment Kawhi and Lowry left.

I made my peace with it years ago which is why I was advocating for a rebuild after the Tampa season.

These guys helped bring a championship here, there’s nothing else they needed to achieve here. Siakam and OG are in better situations, OG can finally display his talents in the biggest media market. Siakam can play what’s left of his prime on a playoff contender.

The Raptors can finally do a rebuild without the burden of trying to appease everyone.

I’m at peace with it, I hope others can be too eventually.

I hear ya, but I'm rolling with Norm on this one.

https://www.si.com/nba/clippers/news/raptors-champion-reveals-being-hurt-by-trade

"I didn't wanna leave Toronto," Powell said. "I didn't wanna leave Toronto if I'm being dead serious. I wanted to stay. I always felt that the team that we had, the youth that we had, that core that we had, could've been what Boston is now. If you kept us all together... That young core we were rocking with in Toronto, we always thought we were gonna be the next up... When I got traded, it hurt. It hurt Fred [VanVleet], too... I didn't wanna leave Toronto, I thought we had something special."

Having won a championship in 2019, Powell felt that young Raptors core was a couple additions away from being special, even after the departure of Kawhi Leonard.

Boston has 0 players from the 2019-2020 run outside of Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown. Even they didn’t keep their core intact.

All of this nostalgic hindsight is cute but it doesn’t really line up with reality. Tatum and Jaylen Brown both made the crucial leap that Siakam and OG never did. That’s why Boston is what Boston is right now and why we are where we are. Basketball is that simple unfortunately.

[Vampirate]

FVV! Nah I never wanted him back. A younger quicker replacement yes

Yeah I wanted Jak badly at the time cause we went so stupidly long with no C. But I see now Turner would have been better, or a cheaper young energy C.

Maybe you're right it wasn't doable, but I wish they'd tried.

Anyway I'm happy watching Knicks games now, except they're not all on TV here. Just still sad at how a great team was allowed to fall apart so badly.

It stopped being a great team the moment Kawhi and Lowry left.

I made my peace with it years ago which is why I was advocating for a rebuild after the Tampa season.

These guys helped bring a championship here, there’s nothing else they needed to achieve here. Siakam and OG are in better situations, OG can finally display his talents in the biggest media market. Siakam can play what’s left of his prime on a playoff contender.

The Raptors can finally do a rebuild without the burden of trying to appease everyone.

I’m at peace with it, I hope others can be too eventually.

I hear ya, but I'm rolling with Norm on this one.

https://www.si.com/nba/clippers/news/raptors-champion-reveals-being-hurt-by-trade

"I didn't wanna leave Toronto," Powell said. "I didn't wanna leave Toronto if I'm being dead serious. I wanted to stay. I always felt that the team that we had, the youth that we had, that core that we had, could've been what Boston is now. If you kept us all together... That young core we were rocking with in Toronto, we always thought we were gonna be the next up... When I got traded, it hurt. It hurt Fred [VanVleet], too... I didn't wanna leave Toronto, I thought we had something special."

Having won a championship in 2019, Powell felt that young Raptors core was a couple additions away from being special, even after the departure of Kawhi Leonard.

The truth is we never had a Tatum caliber player.

A young franchise player.

If you don't have that, you are going nowhere really.

Barnes has the chance to become that but time will tell.

The biggest issue is Barnes and Siakam were just on different age timelines. If Barnes is 26 and way more developed, we probably keep Siakam or OG.

[Los_29]

A Scottie/OG/Pascal/FVV core with the right pieces around it would just be a Knicks or Cavs team now. 2nd round exit team without a superstar. That’s not a bad thing at all. It would just need to be patient and wait for that superstar to become available.

[The Duke]

The problem is we never had a top creating guard.
That’s the “secret sauce”

[Tripod]

A Fred/Siakam led team with OG and Barnes was a failure last year. Even after adding Yak, they choked to a little girl screaming from the stands. And that's with Nurse as coach.

They talked about culture but in reality created a culture of getting paid was the top priority, not winning. The head of that snake was FVV and Nurse was the enabler.

People can be good individually, but bad fits on the same team. And that's what this had become.