The Washington Commanders Thread

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Let's break this open shall we.

You changed it up and said top six then you're excluding Patrick mahomes who was picked at 10. which when a lot of us are talking about trading back that's what we mean trading back to 3-6-8-ect so using this as an argument for not trading back I null and void.
But let's stick with your top 6 theme here

Let's go back to 1980.
13 or 30% of the super bowl winners were top 6 picks, if you got to top ten that ups the number to about 16 or 38%. Many of these being repeating guys. So really it's like 8-9 dudes.
Plunket, sims, Aiken, young , elway, manning, manning, mahomes, Stafford.
That's top ten if you wanna go top 6 remove sims and mohones.

Let's increase this to first rounders in general.
That adds 4 names to the list taking it to 20 total and 12 individuals
Flaco, Big Ben, Doug Williams and Jim McMahon.
That's 48 percent.

Infact of the 3 Washington wins since 1980. The 3 QBs, none were top6, none were top ten and only 1 was a first rounder at 17 and the other two were a 4th and 6th.
Doug Williams, Mark Raypien and Joe Theisman.

I also did the losers
Since 1980
14 times the looser was a top ten pick. With 12 dudes, John elway lost a bunch.
Let's kick that to first round.
That kicks to about 19. Jim Kelly lost more than John elway did lol.

So the numbers don't support what you said at all. It's about half no matter which way you cut it.

So what's best for the team. This team neeeeeeeeds a lot and winning QB aren't only found in the first couple picks.

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The numbers actually do support my premise.

You're just focusing on my top 6-10 comment and not the overall point of Super Bowl participating QBs being first round picks for the most part.

But with that being, you clarified you were talking about trading down a few spots.....so I rest.


Fwiw, I do understand what you're saying about trading down.

I think the disconnect between us lies in how much we value the QBs at the top of this draft.

You're not particularly impressed with them,

Personally, I think Williams, Maye, Daniels are going to be elite QBs eventually.

They aren't perfect prospects but I think there's a big drop off after the top 3 QBs in this draft.

Well I actually like Daniels. I just don't like him in the top 3. I think he's worth about 10th-20th. I like JJ but a first round picks for him is steep. I love Joe Milton in the 7th every stat he has was better than will Levi's and he was talked about as a top ten pick before slipping to the second. So that's huge value.

I look at drafting more as value for what you get than just what you get.

Like I don't like Kaleb Williams but there is a point where even I would have to draft him for value. Maye is meh he's ok but I'd prefer the value pick of trying to get Daniels at say 8 9 or 10. And getting the draft capital from that trade back than just taking Maye at 2.

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I think Daniels goes #3. Williams, Maye, Daniels, Fashanu in that order.

I think da bears trade the pick, possibly to us.

I’m not against trading with the Pats if we think Daniels can win a Super Bowl.

[gambitx777]

The numbers actually do support my premise.

You're just focusing on my top 6-10 comment and not the overall point of Super Bowl participating QBs being first round picks for the most part.

But with that being, you clarified you were talking about trading down a few spots.....so I rest.


Fwiw, I do understand what you're saying about trading down.

I think the disconnect between us lies in how much we value the QBs at the top of this draft.

You're not particularly impressed with them,

Personally, I think Williams, Maye, Daniels are going to be elite QBs eventually.

They aren't perfect prospects but I think there's a big drop off after the top 3 QBs in this draft.

Well I actually like Daniels. I just don't like him in the top 3. I think he's worth about 10th-20th. I like JJ but a first round picks for him is steep. I love Joe Milton in the 7th every stat he has was better than will Levi's and he was talked about as a top ten pick before slipping to the second. So that's huge value.

I look at drafting more as value for what you get than just what you get.

Like I don't like Kaleb Williams but there is a point where even I would have to draft him for value. Maye is meh he's ok but I'd prefer the value pick of trying to get Daniels at say 8 9 or 10. And getting the draft capital from that trade back than just taking Maye at 2.

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I think Daniels goes #3. Williams, Maye, Daniels, Fashanu in that order.

I think da bears trade the pick, possibly to us.

I’m not against trading with the Pats if we think Daniels can win a Super Bowl.

I don't like Daniels that high up to be honest I'd roll the dice on a trade back and see if he falls if he gets past 3 I don't see another team that's gonna take him till the hawks or the raiders.

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[Wizardspride]

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[gambitx777]

I'm not really touching Penix out side of 5-6 at best and I have way more important players targeted there . Someone takes him in the second or 3ed but I don't this you can justify it with him having no ACLs left but I was talking to a kid about this the other day and he cracked back At me with well you can't tear what you don't have lol.

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[Dark Faze]

Not sure what the justification would be for him getting the job. Washington's offense was mediocre at best this season.

If the argument is "well, the tools were bad", well, most good coordinators can do well one they have a strong roster. You want someone that gets better than expected results with a poor roster.

[pancakes3]

Chris Long on his podcast said something interesting about head coaches - that in the modern game, you can't trust a coach that doesn't call the plays on offense, which was directed at Siriani in Philly.

Obviously there's nuance here because I'm pretty sure Andy Reid delegates playcalling at times, or runs some sort of hybrid system where he tells the OC that he wants to target X player or Y part of the field for the upcoming play and the OC calls in the specific play based on what's being shown on the field, but generally you'd want the HC to be more in touch with the offense than the defense.

In hindsight, this makes sense re: Rivera being a poop coach, and also gives me pause for EB and DC's being called in to interview.

[tontoz]

Chris Long on his podcast said something interesting about head coaches - that in the modern game, you can't trust a coach that doesn't call the plays on offense, which was directed at Siriani in Philly.

Obviously there's nuance here because I'm pretty sure Andy Reid delegates playcalling at times, or runs some sort of hybrid system where he tells the OC that he wants to target X player or Y part of the field for the upcoming play and the OC calls in the specific play based on what's being shown on the field, but generally you'd want the HC to be more in touch with the offense than the defense.

In hindsight, this makes sense re: Rivera being a poop coach, and also gives me pause for EB and DC's being called in to interview.

If the head coach calls the plays then it is a safe bet he will stay. If you have an offensive coordinator calling the plays then he might leave for a head coaching job if he's good. That can be a big problem. Eagles and Bills have been hurt by their coordinators leaving.

[Dark Faze]

Ron got so much invested in the defense, and it's supposed to be his area of expertise. He was calling plays on that side of the ball this year and was still atrocious. He lost Sweat, but is that enough of an excuse given how much he was the architect of everything?

I'd stay away from him if I'm Philly.

[pancakes3]

ron's a dinosaur former linebacker who was working with Jack of the River, who is another dinosaur former linebacker. the LB position has fundamentally changed since Ray Lewis and Urlacher were roaming the middle of the field. With the new rules re: defenseless players, targeting, and the increase in crossing routes and passing game in general, MLBs have shrunk down from 250lbs down to 220lbs, and are essentially a closer strong safety, and also necessary to implement the more exotic zone schemes to disguise coverages.

of course Ron and Jack are good enough football minds to recognize this and implement it, but they aren't going to be the ones who innovate and lead the charge in thinking up something new.

[Wizardspride]

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[Dark Faze]

Watch one of the late QB's become Brady.

But yea, that list is bad. We should definitely get a QB this year.

[Rafael122]

Chris Long on his podcast said something interesting about head coaches - that in the modern game, you can't trust a coach that doesn't call the plays on offense, which was directed at Siriani in Philly.

Obviously there's nuance here because I'm pretty sure Andy Reid delegates playcalling at times, or runs some sort of hybrid system where he tells the OC that he wants to target X player or Y part of the field for the upcoming play and the OC calls in the specific play based on what's being shown on the field, but generally you'd want the HC to be more in touch with the offense than the defense.

In hindsight, this makes sense re: Rivera being a poop coach, and also gives me pause for EB and DC's being called in to interview.

Dan Campbell doesn't call any plays. They're winning, and it seems like the players follow him so it's working out. If they're losing, maybe not so much. But I agree, if you're an OC and are becoming a head coach, I would think you'd still want to have some type of influence on the play calling.

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[tontoz]

Daniels or Maye....nice problem to have

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[gambitx777]

Watch one of the late QB's become Brady.

But yea, that list is bad. We should definitely get a QB this year.

Joe Milton lll.
Dude is almost 6-6, has a cannon and is more accurate and athletic than you think.
He has every metric that got QB drafted in the first and second round. He's gonna go in the 7th and be a steal!

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[Endless Loop]

Why no talk about Bo Nix?
Incredible accuracy- completed 77% of passes last year. 45 TDs against 3 interceptions.
"Doesn't have special arm talent." Did Brady?