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76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2

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Re: 76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2 

Post#221 » by eyeatoma » Sat Jan 27, 2024 4:48 am

76ciology wrote:I'll believe we're truly serious about winning the championship if Embiid plays fewer than 65 games this season and saves his best for the playoffs. If I'm not mistaken, for him to be eligible for MVP, he shouldn't miss more than four games for the rest of the regular season.

Currently, we're at a point of equilibrium where Embiid is pleased to be compared to Wilt and MJ, with players on expiring contracts performing well in winning basketball, Maxey potentially making it to the All-Star game, and Morey having ample time for significant opportunities. Similar to the Harden deal, I believe he'll be patient, expecting him to make minimal upgrades, likely with leftover assets from the usual suspects at the trade deadline or players from teams who are pressured to unload their assets before the deadline.



It;s 65 games. He can miss 7 more games.
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Re: 76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2 

Post#222 » by Ben » Sat Jan 27, 2024 5:04 am

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:
Skates wrote:Was Murray the guy guarding Luka tonight? LOL


Doesn't matter because Atlanta is probably the worst defensive team in the entire league. It's not a surprise that Doncic did this to them. They've been getting smoked all year long.


I did find it interesting that most of the Atlanta players had positive +/- tallies tonight, while Murray was -21.
https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401585262

Also, I don't have data on this, but it seems to me that teams struggle more than they might otherwise-- and more than one would expect-- when one player dominates their scoring. Sixers had a very close game in Embiid's 70 point game, the Mavs only won by 5 against Atlanta with Doncic scoring 73, and the Suns lost to the Pacers with Booker scoring 62. But I'd had this impression long before those recent games. Anyone have more data on this phenomenon?
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Re: 76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2 

Post#223 » by 76ciology » Sat Jan 27, 2024 5:55 am

Ben wrote:
ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:
Skates wrote:Was Murray the guy guarding Luka tonight? LOL


Doesn't matter because Atlanta is probably the worst defensive team in the entire league. It's not a surprise that Doncic did this to them. They've been getting smoked all year long.


I did find it interesting that most of the Atlanta players had positive +/- tallies tonight, while Murray was -21.
https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401585262

Also, I don't have data on this, but it seems to me that teams struggle more than they might otherwise-- and more than one would expect-- when one player dominates their scoring. Sixers had a very close game in Embiid's 70 point game, the Mavs only won by 5 against Atlanta with Doncic scoring 73, and the Suns lost to the Pacers with Booker scoring 62. But I'd had this impression long before those recent games. Anyone have more data on this phenomenon?


Good observation.

I believe it happens because the team with the high scorer keeps giving them the ball a lot to help them make or break records. The other team's defense focuses on stopping the high scorer by using tactics like double-teaming or putting extra defenders on them. This makes it hard for the high scorer to shoot or pass well, and it makes the team's offense easy to predict and defend against.

Plus, because the high scorer is busy trying to score, they might not play defense as well, leaving their team with fewer defenders. So, even though one player is scoring a lot, the game can still be tough because the team's defense might not be as strong while their team is very likely not taking low pressure shots and passes on offense.
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Re: 76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2 

Post#224 » by brannigan73 » Sat Jan 27, 2024 6:03 am

Negrodamus wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/sixers/comments/1abmwgu/fischer_the_philadelphia_76ers_are_not_interested/

The Sixers are prioritizing fit alongside Joel Embiid and Tyrese Maxey with any potential deadline addition, sources said, and don’t seem to covet Brown, a career 33.8% shooter from deep, as the optimal missing piece. Philadelphia has continued seeing a strong return from Patrick Beverley, leaving the Sixers with a clear barometer for any newcomers at this deadline. The Sixers will have to ask themselves if Murray is really that perfect pairing with Maxey in the backcourt, considering his long-term salary and Philadelphia’s current projected cap space for this upcoming summer.


I'm thinking we're looking at bigger SG/SF guys. I mentioned Lonnie Walker as a sleeper guy we could be interested in. He's shooting 45% from 3 right now on decent volume for a bench guy. Another deeper sleeper trade I could see would be Aaron Wiggins, another guy I have loved. Buried on the bench, but he's shooting ridiculous percentages and is also fairly long/tall at the SG/SF position.



Amir Coffey is another guy buried on the bench in LAC who is shooting great percentages and might be looking for more opportunity.
Naji Marshall is another. I'm curious if the Mavs have soured on Josh Green since he hasn't taken any kind of jump. Could also be because he's playing with two incredibly ball dominant players.

Of all these guys, I think Aaron Wiggins makes the most sense as he's not terribly valued but he's been consistently pretty good at scoring the ball when given the opportunity. The other guys might cost more than we're willing to drop. I don't know Morey's record on going after undervalued role players.



So you think if we added Lonnie Walker and Aaron Wiggins we would be able to have a real chance of beating the Bucks and Celtics? Do you really believe that? Im cool with the idea that they are just young players that could help and be added cheaply but if this is the only sorts of things we do we arent getting by the 2nd round again.
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Re: 76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2 

Post#225 » by brannigan73 » Sat Jan 27, 2024 6:05 am

sixers hoops wrote:Several posters keep mentioning that Morey has a duty to make a serious addition as this team has earned the trust of management that they are worth going all in for. I don’t want Morey to make a deal just to make a deal. We have seen our GMs use a lot of assets to get Tobias, Fultz, and Harden, the first pick on Simmons, and acquired a star in Butler. You can only get so many shots to put a title contender around a star. I feel like we have one more big trade to build around Embiid, if we choose to use our assets in that manner and really can’t screw it up.

My question is - would you trade Tobias, Springer, and three firsts (our first, our 29 first, and Clippers pick) for Mikal Bridges and another player like Finney Smith?

My initial thoughts are that Brooklyn would be have to be extremely interested. Their season is over, and Mikal probably isn’t staying there long term, so that is some nice draft capital for losing Mikal a year earlier. I may be biased, but seems like an overpay on our part.

From the Sixers perspective, acquiring Mikal and another good player probably puts our title odds right there with Denver and Boston. Considering Joel, Maxey, and Nurse have probably given the team enough confidence that this is a group worth going all-in on, I think an overpay for a player likely to significantly improve our chance at a title might be possible.

Ultimately, I really value draft picks and value deals, and overpay trades never work. The team that gives up 3+ firsts usually regrets it. Often you can get similar production for a fraction of the price if you wait for the right deal to come along. However, this seems like the time to push the chips in with Embiid. They tried with Butler and Harden, but this coach gives me more hope that he can put it all together.

I honestly don’t know what I would do if faced with an offer like this. Mikal isn’t a superstar but might be the borderline star fit to push this team over the top. I obviously would like to get him cheaper, but if this were the Nets firm price, I would struggle to make a decision here.

I’m curious what the majority thinks.


No we can get more then that with three first round picks. Thats what Siakam cost and he is better then Bridges. I feel like for that you could get Murray and Bogdanovich from Altanta and to me those 2 > Then Bridges and DFS. Finney Smith has fell off a cliff his impact stats are close to replacement level this year. Dont believe these ridiculous demands teams are making for some of these other guys in rumors lately either. You can probably get Jerami Grant for a first, Malcolm Brogdon for a first, DeMarr Derozan for a first, both Bogdanovich's for a first each, Alex Caruso for a first and probably plenty Im missing Sure maybe in some cases you might have to throw in a Jaden Springer or a Second and obviously the matching salary in expiring players but there are a lot of guys that could help the Sixers that they could get. You could keep Tobias as well in these other trades and have his bird rights. Use some combination of Morris, Covington, Korkmaz.
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Re: 76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2 

Post#226 » by Negrodamus » Sat Jan 27, 2024 6:29 am

brannigan73 wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/sixers/comments/1abmwgu/fischer_the_philadelphia_76ers_are_not_interested/

The Sixers are prioritizing fit alongside Joel Embiid and Tyrese Maxey with any potential deadline addition, sources said, and don’t seem to covet Brown, a career 33.8% shooter from deep, as the optimal missing piece. Philadelphia has continued seeing a strong return from Patrick Beverley, leaving the Sixers with a clear barometer for any newcomers at this deadline. The Sixers will have to ask themselves if Murray is really that perfect pairing with Maxey in the backcourt, considering his long-term salary and Philadelphia’s current projected cap space for this upcoming summer.


I'm thinking we're looking at bigger SG/SF guys. I mentioned Lonnie Walker as a sleeper guy we could be interested in. He's shooting 45% from 3 right now on decent volume for a bench guy. Another deeper sleeper trade I could see would be Aaron Wiggins, another guy I have loved. Buried on the bench, but he's shooting ridiculous percentages and is also fairly long/tall at the SG/SF position.



Amir Coffey is another guy buried on the bench in LAC who is shooting great percentages and might be looking for more opportunity.
Naji Marshall is another. I'm curious if the Mavs have soured on Josh Green since he hasn't taken any kind of jump. Could also be because he's playing with two incredibly ball dominant players.

Of all these guys, I think Aaron Wiggins makes the most sense as he's not terribly valued but he's been consistently pretty good at scoring the ball when given the opportunity. The other guys might cost more than we're willing to drop. I don't know Morey's record on going after undervalued role players.



So you think if we added Lonnie Walker and Aaron Wiggins we would be able to have a real chance of beating the Bucks and Celtics? Do you really believe that? Im cool with the idea that they are just young players that could help and be added cheaply but if this is the only sorts of things we do we arent getting by the 2nd round again.


Hate to break it to you pal, but no one is out there who can save us at the trade deadline. If we want to beat the Bucks and Celtics, it’s gonna be with Embiid and Maxey. The supplemental players will be there to make life harder on the other team’s stars and to hit open buckets created by Embiid. No superstar is walking through that door between now and the trade deadline.
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Re: 76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2 

Post#227 » by Lou_23 » Sat Jan 27, 2024 12:04 pm

Stanford wrote:Mikal Bridges ain't that good
As a first option no, but I think he would be a fantastic third option here. A great fit.
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Re: 76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2 

Post#228 » by Kobblehead » Sat Jan 27, 2024 12:48 pm

What kind of return can we get from the Kings in a Tobias Harris trade?

Seeing that the Kings have become the betting favorites to be Harris next team if he's moved.

Kevin Huerter is cool but he's shooting his career low from three this year.
Trey Lyles is a somewhat useful low minute bit piece at PF.
Harrison Barnes shoots well but does NOTHING else.
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Re: 76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2 

Post#229 » by eyeatoma » Sat Jan 27, 2024 1:01 pm

Kobblehead wrote:What kind of return can we get from the Kings in a Tobias Harris trade?

Seeing that the Kings have become the betting favorites to be Harris next team if he's moved.

Kevin Huerter is cool but he's shooting his career low from three this year.
Trey Lyles is a somewhat useful low minute bit piece at PF.
Harrison Barnes shoots well but does NOTHING else.



Gross, gross gorss...

If we're giving up Tobi, just go get a good player. Heurter has had plenty of opportunities and he's been meh. Trey Lyles same thing, and he's injury prone. Harrison Barnes is getting old, and he's not going to move the needle.

I'm not a fan of Tobi but replacing that production will be hard. Part of the reason we got blow out against Indy is because we didn't have him or Melton.
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Re: 76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2 

Post#230 » by Jailblazers7 » Sat Jan 27, 2024 1:39 pm

That Tobi + 3 picks for Bridges/DFS is close but ultimately we’re giving up too much. Tobi on his expiring is worth a FRP on the market right now given what Rozier just went for so we’re basically trading 4 firsts.

To pull the trigger, I’d either need to sub Tobi for Morris/Roco or remove a FRP from the trade.
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Re: 76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2 

Post#231 » by Stanford » Sat Jan 27, 2024 1:52 pm

Jailblazers7 wrote:That Tobi + 3 picks for Bridges/DFS is close but ultimately we’re giving up too much.


That's interesting because I've seen a lot of people arguing to save the picks until the draft so we can ship 5 firsts to brooklyn for Bridges. His perceived value is crazy right now.
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Re: 76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2 

Post#232 » by Kobblehead » Sat Jan 27, 2024 1:56 pm

I don't think Mikal Bridges is worth all that. He's playing poorly on both ends of the floor right now. If we're giving up a superstar trade package of multiple 1st round picks, we're going to need both Mikal Bridges and Cam Johnson in the deal.
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Re: 76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2 

Post#233 » by Kobblehead » Sat Jan 27, 2024 1:59 pm

What's the appeal in Dorian Finney-Smith?

He's shooting well this year, but he's never been a productive player on the box score (no rebounds, no assists, no blocks, no steals). Also, he's grossly overpaid for the very little contributions he provides at $15m over the next two years after this one. He's a negative asset that should cost Brooklyn draft picks to unload.
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Re: 76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2 

Post#234 » by eyeatoma » Sat Jan 27, 2024 2:00 pm

Kobblehead wrote:I don't think Mikal Bridges is worth all that. He's playing poorly on both ends of the floor right now. If we're giving up a superstar trade package of multiple 1st round picks, we're going to need both Mikal Bridges and Cam Johnson in the deal.



Could be because the Nets are a train wreck. It's incredible how you generally play better when your team and the offensive sets are better. Also he would feast from Embiid's gravity.
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Re: 76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2 

Post#235 » by Jailblazers7 » Sat Jan 27, 2024 2:00 pm

Stanford wrote:
Jailblazers7 wrote:That Tobi + 3 picks for Bridges/DFS is close but ultimately we’re giving up too much.


That's interesting because I've seen a lot of people arguing to save the picks until the draft so we can ship 5 firsts to brooklyn for Bridges. His perceived value is crazy right now.


That’s crazy to me. His contract adds to his value but only top 10 players should return that many picks.

I also think the second apron will boost the value of FRPs again because of the contract amounts, similar to how picks are valuable in the NFL because of cost control.
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Re: 76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2 

Post#236 » by mjkvol » Sat Jan 27, 2024 2:17 pm

Ben wrote:
ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:
Skates wrote:Was Murray the guy guarding Luka tonight? LOL


Doesn't matter because Atlanta is probably the worst defensive team in the entire league. It's not a surprise that Doncic did this to them. They've been getting smoked all year long.


I did find it interesting that most of the Atlanta players had positive +/- tallies tonight, while Murray was -21.
https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401585262

Also, I don't have data on this, but it seems to me that teams struggle more than they might otherwise-- and more than one would expect-- when one player dominates their scoring. Sixers had a very close game in Embiid's 70 point game, the Mavs only won by 5 against Atlanta with Doncic scoring 73, and the Suns lost to the Pacers with Booker scoring 62. But I'd had this impression long before those recent games. Anyone have more data on this phenomenon?


Very true, and almost always been the case. KAT's game would be Exhibit A - the way he was forcing shots down the stretch is what cost them a game they should win 95% of the time. Same with the Sixers and Embiid at the end, except the Spurs defense was pathetic and he was getting single coverage, and wide open looks and layups.
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Re: 76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2q 

Post#237 » by sixers hoops » Sat Jan 27, 2024 3:39 pm

Jailblazers7 wrote:
Stanford wrote:
Jailblazers7 wrote:That Tobi + 3 picks for Bridges/DFS is close but ultimately we’re giving up too much.


That's interesting because I've seen a lot of people arguing to save the picks until the draft so we can ship 5 firsts to brooklyn for Bridges. His perceived value is crazy right now.


That’s crazy to me. His contract adds to his value but only top 10 players should return that many picks.

I also think the second apron will boost the value of FRPs again because of the contract amounts, similar to how picks are valuable in the NFL because of cost control.


I agree. I have a feeling the market is going to get driven up this year. Clippers traded a couple of firsts, the Pacers traded some firsts, the Heat moved a first. There is a large group who believe it’s Morey’s duty to add to this team even if it’s an overpay. Public pressure is pretty meaningless to Morey, but Nick Nurse is giving people reason to believe this year’s playoffs can be different. Then Miami and Indiana improve their rosters, which I think adds more pressure for a significant move if Morey wants to compete this year.

Ultimately, I love that Morey has a long lens. I think our picks have to be used very wisely, and I really wanted to gauge if people think Mikal has that level impact to overpay. I think first round picks are largely undervalued in the league. We are already down two future firsts, so I would prob stand pat in any deal that causes us to move our 2029 pick. I don’t even necessarily think it has more value than the Clippers pick, just think it’s irresponsible to move draft picks more than a year out.
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Re: 76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2 

Post#238 » by sixers hoops » Sat Jan 27, 2024 3:51 pm

Jailblazers7 wrote:Tobi on his expiring is worth a FRP on the market right now given what Rozier just went for so we’re basically trading 4 firsts.


I am always a little confused with these statements. I think the value of an expiring contact is that you can take other team’s crap off of their hands for them. Lowry was an expiring contact, and they had to add a first to get Rozier. Miami wanted Rozier the player, so he isn’t a good reference for an expiring contract’s value. I certainly think we could get a first for Tobias if we take some bad contracts back with him, but I don’t think any team would send a first round pick and expiring contracts to us for Tobias. Ultimately, to get a first for Tobias we would have to eat some bad deals.

If a team were willing to give a first for Tobias because they liked him as a player, which Detroit and Sac have been rumored, then I would be on-board. However, I don’t see Tobias or his contract having first round pick value. I see us willing to take on some bad contracts having first round pick value.
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Re: 76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2 

Post#239 » by Jailblazers7 » Sat Jan 27, 2024 3:58 pm

sixers hoops wrote:
Jailblazers7 wrote:Tobi on his expiring is worth a FRP on the market right now given what Rozier just went for so we’re basically trading 4 firsts.


I am always a little confused with these statements. I think the value of an expiring contact is that you can take other team’s crap off of their hands for them. Lowry was an expiring contact, and they had to add a first to get Rozier. Miami wanted Rozier the player, so he isn’t a good reference for an expiring contract’s value. I certainly think we could get a first for Tobias if we take some bad contracts back with him, but I don’t think any team would send a first round pick and expiring contracts to us for Tobias. Ultimately, to get a first for Tobias we would have to eat some bad deals.

If a team were willing to give a first for Tobias because they liked him as a player, which Detroit and Sac have been rumored, then I would be on-board. However, I don’t see Tobias or his contract having first round pick value. I see us willing to take on some bad contracts having first round pick value.


Lowry is a corpse, so it’s an entirely different situation. Tobias is a legitimately useful player & has proven to be a great locker room presence who is willing to accept whatever role the team needs from him. He absolutely has FRP value similar to the way Bogdan, a useful player for a playoff run + someone you can sign long-term to a more reasonable deal.
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Re: 76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2 

Post#240 » by Arsenal » Sat Jan 27, 2024 4:11 pm

Making a move for the sake of making a move is idiotic, regardless of how well the season is going or the fing "window" people keep crying about.

Any transaction needs to move the needle, otherwise don't do anything.

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