76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2

[sixers hoops]

Tobi on his expiring is worth a FRP on the market right now given what Rozier just went for so we’re basically trading 4 firsts.

I am always a little confused with these statements. I think the value of an expiring contact is that you can take other team’s crap off of their hands for them. Lowry was an expiring contact, and they had to add a first to get Rozier. Miami wanted Rozier the player, so he isn’t a good reference for an expiring contract’s value. I certainly think we could get a first for Tobias if we take some bad contracts back with him, but I don’t think any team would send a first round pick and expiring contracts to us for Tobias. Ultimately, to get a first for Tobias we would have to eat some bad deals.

If a team were willing to give a first for Tobias because they liked him as a player, which Detroit and Sac have been rumored, then I would be on-board. However, I don’t see Tobias or his contract having first round pick value. I see us willing to take on some bad contracts having first round pick value.

Lowry is a corpse, so it’s an entirely different situation. Tobias is a legitimately useful player & has proven to be a great locker room presence who is willing to accept whatever role the team needs from him. He absolutely has FRP value similar to the way Bogdan, a useful player for a playoff run + someone you can sign long-term to a more reasonable deal.

That is kind of my point. His value is not as an “expiring contract.” If you remove the player, an expiring contract is almost like a trade exception, so Tobias himself has to have value. And in this case, the fact that his contract is expiring might not be attractive for teams who actually want him as a player. That makes him a rental, then you’re stuck negotiating with his delusional father on a new deal. I believe Bogdan is on the first year of a four year deal making $17 million per season. That is a pretty good contract, assuming you believe he will live up to it.

People are throwing first rounders around like crazy, so I wouldn’t be shocked to see anybody get moved for a protected first. If we acquire another starter, I would move Tobias for a first in a heartbeat. If a younger team had interest, maybe an Orlando, Houston, Sac, etc, in adding Tobias, then I would definitely go that route.

I would love to add another first to the coffers, so we can make trades while still protecting our own picks.

[the_process]

Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

Overvaluing Tobias because of that continues as a yearly rite of passage around here I see.

[the_process]

Several posters keep mentioning that Morey has a duty to make a serious addition as this team has earned the trust of management that they are worth going all in for. I don’t want Morey to make a deal just to make a deal. We have seen our GMs use a lot of assets to get Tobias, Fultz, and Harden, the first pick on Simmons, and acquired a star in Butler. You can only get so many shots to put a title contender around a star. I feel like we have one more big trade to build around Embiid, if we choose to use our assets in that manner and really can’t screw it up.

My question is - would you trade Tobias, Springer, and three firsts (our first, our 29 first, and Clippers pick) for Mikal Bridges and another player like Finney Smith?

My initial thoughts are that Brooklyn would be have to be extremely interested. Their season is over, and Mikal probably isn’t staying there long term, so that is some nice draft capital for losing Mikal a year earlier. I may be biased, but seems like an overpay on our part.

From the Sixers perspective, acquiring Mikal and another good player probably puts our title odds right there with Denver and Boston. Considering Joel, Maxey, and Nurse have probably given the team enough confidence that this is a group worth going all-in on, I think an overpay for a player likely to significantly improve our chance at a title might be possible.

Ultimately, I really value draft picks and value deals, and overpay trades never work. The team that gives up 3+ firsts usually regrets it. Often you can get similar production for a fraction of the price if you wait for the right deal to come along. However, this seems like the time to push the chips in with Embiid. They tried with Butler and Harden, but this coach gives me more hope that he can put it all together.

I honestly don’t know what I would do if faced with an offer like this. Mikal isn’t a superstar but might be the borderline star fit to push this team over the top. I obviously would like to get him cheaper, but if this were the Nets firm price, I would struggle to make a decision here.

I’m curious what the majority thinks.

Yes, you should make that deal. It's an absolute no-brainer if they throw in Finney-Smith.

[sixers hoops]

Making a move for the sake of making a move is idiotic, regardless of how well the season is going or the fing "window" people keep crying about.

Any transaction needs to move the needle, otherwise don't do anything.

I think the price of doing business will be expensive after what we have seen. Assuming that’s the case, do you move a pick for a guy like Bogdan, Caruso, Bruce Brown, or whoever, to add a little for this year’s run? Or save the pick for a bigger move down the line.

I feel like, if it doesn’t move the needle to significantly add to our title hopes, don’t bother. I’m not looking to move a first so we can get over the second round hump. I would settle on smaller addition until the right deal presents itself.

[Kobblehead]

Some people have shown no regard for draft picks.

There was a time when you traded multiple first first superstars only.

Now we have people willing to trade multiple firsts for Alex Caruso? For Mikal Bridges? What are we doing?

[76ciology]

Some people have shown no regard for draft picks.

There was a time when you traded multiple first first superstars only.

Now we have people willing to trade multiple firsts for Alex Caruso? For Mikal Bridges? What are we doing?

I blame Jaden Springer for that

[76ciology]

What kind of return can we get from the Kings in a Tobias Harris trade?

Seeing that the Kings have become the betting favorites to be Harris next team if he's moved.

Kevin Huerter is cool but he's shooting his career low from three this year.
Trey Lyles is a somewhat useful low minute bit piece at PF.
Harrison Barnes shoots well but does NOTHING else.

Siakam lite package.

Harrison Barnes + Mitchell + Huerter.

[76ciology]

We can’t go after the big names you hear right now. Even Royce O’Neal got 3-4 teams linked too him. Let them have their bid war. We’re just gonna wait for our “Alec Burks and Grob 3” before the deadline is over.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

We can’t go after the big names you hear right now. Even Royce O’Neal got 3-4 teams linked too him. Let them have their bid war. We’re just gonna wait for our “Alec Burks and Grob 3” before the deadline is over.

I'm telling you dude...We have the talent to bring it home this year. Our team defense is the problem. Nurse gets these guys to buy in and we'll be ok. Adding a Royce O'Neal will help get us better defensively and get Kelly Oubre out of the lineup.

[Kobblehead]

Even though Quentin Grimes isn't the most well-rounded player, he would be a good fit and he wouldn't be unreasonable to get.

We need to target guys on the outs of their team and try to buy low on them.

I have no interest in the guys that we would have to buy high on.

In term of multiple first package, maybe I would offer for a Blazers package that would land us Grant AND Brogdon. Or Bridges AND Cam Johnson.

Multiple firsts for Dejounte Murray is a no for me.

[youngcrev]

What's the appeal in Dorian Finney-Smith?

He's shooting well this year, but he's never been a productive player on the box score (no rebounds, no assists, no blocks, no steals). Also, he's grossly overpaid for the very little contributions he provides at $15m over the next two years after this one. He's a negative asset that should cost Brooklyn draft picks to unload.

Starting caliber 3+D wing with size.

Definitely not a negative asset. I bet the Mavs would love to have him back right now instead of Grant Williams.

[Kobblehead]

Dorian Finney-Smith for his career: 1.4% steal, 1.4% block, 35.9% from three

That's not three and d. That's barely adequate at three and barely adequate at d.

Let's also stress the fact that his total rebounding percentage and assist percentage are single digits.

He is a guy you sign to 1 year, $2m.

He's on the hook for $30m over the next two years. That's an albatross contract for what he gives you.

Brooklyn should have to pay us a 1st to take him on.

[76ciology]

We can’t go after the big names you hear right now. Even Royce O’Neal got 3-4 teams linked too him. Let them have their bid war. We’re just gonna wait for our “Alec Burks and Grob 3” before the deadline is over.

I'm telling you dude...We have the talent to bring it home this year. Our team defense is the problem. Nurse gets these guys to buy in and we'll be ok. Adding a Royce O'Neal will help get us better defensively and get Kelly Oubre out of the lineup.

I need more high-pressure situations against top teams, for me to reach that conclusion.

Many of our games are too “Embiid for MVP” agenda to me with very light defense that they often feel like non bearing games. These Jokic vs Embiid games even feels cringey. It's mostly one-on-one matchups, trying to determine who is superior individually where it sort of steps away from being a team sport.

We’ve just mostly seen vanilla teams, with vanilla schemes with vanilla effort.

[Kobblehead]

Dallas signed Derrick Jones to 1 year, $2m vet minimum. An upgrade over anything Finney Smith gave them. Look at his defensive numbers compared to what DFS's were. And he's shooting just a tenth of a percentage point off of what DFS shot for them.

[76ciology]

I’d rather have Jabari Walker than DFS, mostly because he’d likely cost 70-90% less.

[Kobblehead]

Any deal with Brooklyn has to include Cam Johnson. Can't let them sucker us by having us overpaying for Mikal Bridges by multiple first round picks AND taking on a vet minimum talent like DFS making 7.5x what he's worth for 2 years.

Unless you just feel bad for dumping Ben Simmons on them and want to let them get their payback on us.

[youngcrev]

I am always a little confused with these statements. I think the value of an expiring contact is that you can take other team’s crap off of their hands for them. Lowry was an expiring contact, and they had to add a first to get Rozier. Miami wanted Rozier the player, so he isn’t a good reference for an expiring contract’s value. I certainly think we could get a first for Tobias if we take some bad contracts back with him, but I don’t think any team would send a first round pick and expiring contracts to us for Tobias. Ultimately, to get a first for Tobias we would have to eat some bad deals.

If a team were willing to give a first for Tobias because they liked him as a player, which Detroit and Sac have been rumored, then I would be on-board. However, I don’t see Tobias or his contract having first round pick value. I see us willing to take on some bad contracts having first round pick value.

Lowry is a corpse, so it’s an entirely different situation. Tobias is a legitimately useful player & has proven to be a great locker room presence who is willing to accept whatever role the team needs from him. He absolutely has FRP value similar to the way Bogdan, a useful player for a playoff run + someone you can sign long-term to a more reasonable deal.

That is kind of my point. His value is not as an “expiring contract.” If you remove the player, an expiring contract is almost like a trade exception, so Tobias himself has to have value. And in this case, the fact that his contract is expiring might not be attractive for teams who actually want him as a player. That makes him a rental, then you’re stuck negotiating with his delusional father on a new deal. I believe Bogdan is on the first year of a four year deal making $17 million per season. That is a pretty good contract, assuming you believe he will live up to it.

People are throwing first rounders around like crazy, so I wouldn’t be shocked to see anybody get moved for a protected first. If we acquire another starter, I would move Tobias for a first in a heartbeat. If a younger team had interest, maybe an Orlando, Houston, Sac, etc, in adding Tobias, then I would definitely go that route.

I would love to add another first to the coffers, so we can make trades while still protecting our own picks.

I think him being an expiring helps his value in that he no longer has the outrageous rate attached to him. A team that wants him beyond this year can acquire him and gain his bird rights to negotiate a new deal.

No matter the opinion on him in general, I think we can all agree he's still worth more than the MLE, and the amount of teams that can give him that without acquiring his bird rights is pretty slim.

[76ciology]

Any deal with Brooklyn has to include Cam Johnson. Can't let them sucker us by having us overpaying for Mikal Bridges by multiple first round picks AND taking on a vet minimum talent like DFS making 7.5x what he's worth for 2 years.

Unless you just feel bad for dumping Ben Simmons on them and want to let them get their payback on us.

Ive been watching a lot of Nets games because of the other Cam hehe

I’d stay away from Cam Johnson.

[ProcessDoctor]

PHI out: Harris, Reed, Springer, Martin, picks
PHI in: Lauri, Olynyk, Barnes

SAC out: Barnes, Huerter, Mitchell, pick
SAC in: Harris

UTAH out: Lauri, Olynyk
UTAH in: Huerter, Mitchell (lol), Reed, Springer, Martin, picks


Maxey/Beverley/(buyout)
Melton/Oubre/Korkmaz
Batum/Barnes/House
Lauri/Morris/Covington
Embiid/Olynk/Bamba


Edited: Barnes to PHI, Huerter to UTAH

[SixthStreet]

We should trade Tobias to the Kings for draft capital from them or another team and load up for trades in the offseason and at the draft.

I'm simply not wasting draft assets for the players available at the deadline and at rumored prices. Let's be smart.