The Official Front Office Needs to Get to Work Thread

[RookieStar]

It's funny how active the trade thread has been over the years despite not making any big moves in forever

We Magic fans are masochists

[Def Swami]

The Magic would be dumb to trade any first round picks in small deals. We are not a first round pick type of trade away from anything. Band-Aid trades are often regrettable. This team has a lot of issues, and I would rather wait til the offseason to fix them if the cost is anything more than second round picks, fultz, okeke and harris.

For players like Simons, Herro, Murray? You trade a protected 1st or 2 and move on. Those guys are locked into deals. Our 11th pick hasn’t even gotten to play real minutes on this average team. What is the 2024 15th pick going to do for us next season? If we can trade it for one of the aforementioned players, you do it and you don’t give it a second thought.

Absolutely. If those players are on the table for those prices, then sure. I'm just not convinced they're available. In which case, the Magic are going to dangle their expiring contracts and some 2nd round picks. And maybe they land Tyus Jones. But I'm not parting with a first round pick for Tyus Jones just to fulfill a need. I think the Magic should be aggressive, but mindful. It's a tough balance to strike, but that's also what they get paid to do.

[eyriq]

We need to get aboard the D'Angelo Russell train. 17/3/6 on 48/42/78 shooting.

[Max Power]

Something definitely needs to be done. I think a complete overhaul of the backcourt should be considered, Suggs aside. I like Markelle and his game but he can’t stay healthy and his shot isn’t coming back it appears. Cole is ok as a bench scorer but can’t really lead this team as a starter. Black has 6’7” but that’s really it. It’s time to inject this backcourt with a couple guys who can hit a 3. I also think another quality big couldn’t hurt since Issac can’t contribute longer than a few minutes a night.

[Knightro]

We need to get aboard the D'Angelo Russell train. 17/3/6 on 48/42/78 shooting.

I'd take him for nothing certainly. If the cost is just being a third team for the Lakers/Hawks and it would only cost expiring contracts and 2nd round picks, I'd do it.

[KillMonger]

Nailed it

I think in general the fans are pleased. Not only with how this season started, but in seeing Paolo flourish and our young core grow. In a grand scheme of things you can say it’s been a season by season improvement. At the same time the frustration you are seeing stems from it being incredibly clear what the weaknesses on this team have been for a few seasons now and there being nothing done to address them. Both can be true (glaring weakness being ignored and incremental improvement).

The big question now is how long can this go on? At what point does the front office actively invest in this team? While some think it’s when Paolo is entering his prime or has been resigned, I think given the past of this organization it IS important to promote a commitment to winning before a cornerstone becomes a free agent.

This is all to say you are right, we are doing well, but I think it’s also the definition of insanity to roll the same thing out year after year and expect different results. We were all floored by the start of this season, but as things sink closer to where last season ended it’s clear that SOLELY depending on development for improvement can only get you so far.

Hmmm, good point. It's completely baffling that they kept Harris, Cole, and Fultz while drafting Black and Jett. BUT a plan to move Fultz, Cole, or Harris last off-season was fragmented and held by a minority. The majority view was in favor of keeping all three. I think RealGM opinion likely reflects general views of the org since we are influenced by the Magic's PR machine.

Also, we literally just saw the Hennigan build fail because they tried to accelerate and consolidate. Hybrid rebuilds are out of favor around here as a result. We are getting an organic purist strategy instead. I don't hate it. The one thing that annoys me is that we aren't actively removing playtime blockers for Black and Jett. There is an effort to allow Fultz and Harris to earn a place on the team going forward, which makes no sense given we drafted Black and Jett.

What I think is behind that is a belief that the team is good enough to make the playoffs and that this is best for Franchero and Suggs. Competing incentives; allow Franchero and Suggs to compete while providing Black and Jett clear paths to playing time. The tension there is frustrating since Fultz, Cole, and Harris are clearly inadequate. So do we upgrade them with assets or clear a path for Black and Jett?

Maybe this was the plan all along... They drafted duplicate skillets with AB and jett with the players in front of them on the depth chart... Never made sense....jett being in the league biding his time... Maybe all along they were planning on clearing the way

Sent from the phone in my hands

[eyriq]

I think in general the fans are pleased. Not only with how this season started, but in seeing Paolo flourish and our young core grow. In a grand scheme of things you can say it’s been a season by season improvement. At the same time the frustration you are seeing stems from it being incredibly clear what the weaknesses on this team have been for a few seasons now and there being nothing done to address them. Both can be true (glaring weakness being ignored and incremental improvement).

The big question now is how long can this go on? At what point does the front office actively invest in this team? While some think it’s when Paolo is entering his prime or has been resigned, I think given the past of this organization it IS important to promote a commitment to winning before a cornerstone becomes a free agent.

This is all to say you are right, we are doing well, but I think it’s also the definition of insanity to roll the same thing out year after year and expect different results. We were all floored by the start of this season, but as things sink closer to where last season ended it’s clear that SOLELY depending on development for improvement can only get you so far.

Hmmm, good point. It's completely baffling that they kept Harris, Cole, and Fultz while drafting Black and Jett. BUT a plan to move Fultz, Cole, or Harris last off-season was fragmented and held by a minority. The majority view was in favor of keeping all three. I think RealGM opinion likely reflects general views of the org since we are influenced by the Magic's PR machine.

Also, we literally just saw the Hennigan build fail because they tried to accelerate and consolidate. Hybrid rebuilds are out of favor around here as a result. We are getting an organic purist strategy instead. I don't hate it. The one thing that annoys me is that we aren't actively removing playtime blockers for Black and Jett. There is an effort to allow Fultz and Harris to earn a place on the team going forward, which makes no sense given we drafted Black and Jett.

What I think is behind that is a belief that the team is good enough to make the playoffs and that this is best for Franchero and Suggs. Competing incentives; allow Franchero and Suggs to compete while providing Black and Jett clear paths to playing time. The tension there is frustrating since Fultz, Cole, and Harris are clearly inadequate. So do we upgrade them with assets or clear a path for Black and Jett?

Maybe this was the plan all along... They drafted duplicate skillets with AB and jett with the players in front of them on the depth chart... Never made sense....jett being in the league biding his time... Maybe all along they were planning on clearing the way

Sent from the phone in my hands

Yeah, could be. It's like we are watching the plan unfurl at the wrong speed. Need some time lapse to see the evolution.

[T-Cat]

Orlando Magic fans should be patient with this roster until next season at best!

They don't wanna mess with their cap space and while this team has obvious holes from shooting, rim protection and turnovers.

We could be looking at another lottery team with us being currently at 23-22. No one wants a quick fix, so we need to fix this roster in the off season.

As for Fultz, I would definitely resign for cheap especially if he considers TOS surgery to fix those nerves vs acquiring a Tyus Jones who is a free agent that will command a big pay day.

[Black and Blue]

Hmmm, good point. It's completely baffling that they kept Harris, Cole, and Fultz while drafting Black and Jett. BUT a plan to move Fultz, Cole, or Harris last off-season was fragmented and held by a minority. The majority view was in favor of keeping all three. I think RealGM opinion likely reflects general views of the org since we are influenced by the Magic's PR machine.

Also, we literally just saw the Hennigan build fail because they tried to accelerate and consolidate. Hybrid rebuilds are out of favor around here as a result. We are getting an organic purist strategy instead. I don't hate it. The one thing that annoys me is that we aren't actively removing playtime blockers for Black and Jett. There is an effort to allow Fultz and Harris to earn a place on the team going forward, which makes no sense given we drafted Black and Jett.

What I think is behind that is a belief that the team is good enough to make the playoffs and that this is best for Franchero and Suggs. Competing incentives; allow Franchero and Suggs to compete while providing Black and Jett clear paths to playing time. The tension there is frustrating since Fultz, Cole, and Harris are clearly inadequate. So do we upgrade them with assets or clear a path for Black and Jett?

Maybe this was the plan all along... They drafted duplicate skillets with AB and jett with the players in front of them on the depth chart... Never made sense....jett being in the league biding his time... Maybe all along they were planning on clearing the way

Sent from the phone in my hands

Yeah, could be. It's like we are watching the plan unfurl at the wrong speed. Need some time lapse to see the evolution.

Exactly. You make a great point about the plan being slow and it being tough to quite understand it as a result. I’ll add that plans stretched over a long period of time have a greater chance of not working, due to the insane level of variables and the fact we are dealing with actual humans here (which is as unpredictable as it gets).

For me personally, I’ve grown to have a healthy level of distrust in any rebuild plan that takes a long time without any updates or details being given on it. Yes it can work out, but more often than not you wind up with a Cleveland Browns-esque plan where the GM gets fired after a 7 year rebuild that stalls and the fans are told to once again have patience.

Weltman has prided himself on playing his cards close to the vest, but an update on the rebuild to fans at some point this off-season feels like it would help fans regain that faith.

[eyriq]

Maybe this was the plan all along... They drafted duplicate skillets with AB and jett with the players in front of them on the depth chart... Never made sense....jett being in the league biding his time... Maybe all along they were planning on clearing the way

Sent from the phone in my hands

Yeah, could be. It's like we are watching the plan unfurl at the wrong speed. Need some time lapse to see the evolution.

Exactly. You make a great point about the plan being slow and it being tough to quite understand it as a result. I’ll add that plans stretched over a long period of time have a greater chance of not working, due to the insane level of variables and the fact we are dealing with actual humans here (which is as unpredictable as it gets).

For me personally, I’ve grown to have a healthy level of distrust in any rebuild plan that takes a long time without any updates or details being given on it. Yes it can work out, but more often than not you wind up with a Cleveland Browns-esque plan where the GM gets fired after a 7 year rebuild that stalls and the fans are told to once again have patience.

Weltman has prided himself on playing his cards close to the vest, but an update on the rebuild to fans at some point this off-season feels like it would help fans regain that faith.

We need more transparency from them, period. They pride themselves on running a clandestine operation. The meme that no one knows what Weltman is doing is tired and old. They're so damn clandestine that NBA fans probably don't even know we exist cuz they haven't seen a nationally televised Magic game in years. I'm starting to correlate the lack of national attention and exposure for players with our pride in running a clandestine operation. And frankly, I think it's pathetic and tired. At the end of the day, this is an entertainment business and if the magic don't contribute to the rumor mill, which drives viewership, maybe there's a bit of quid pro quo and we get left out? Either way, Weltman is a bit too precious with his secrets and he needs to be more transparent with the fans.

[pepe1991]

Orlando Magic fans should be patient with this roster until next season at best!

They don't wanna mess with their cap space and while this team has obvious holes from shooting, rim protection and turnovers.

We could be looking at another lottery team with us being currently at 23-22. No one wants a quick fix, so we need to fix this roster in the off season.

As for Fultz, I would definitely resign for cheap especially if he considers TOS surgery to fix those nerves vs acquiring a Tyus Jones who is a free agent that will command a big pay day.

They only have next year until salary cap messes us anyway. As soon as Franz new exstension kicks, all bigger moves will be harder to execute due salary limitations, knowing year later you have to pay Banchero some 5 years -$160M (or more) type of deal.

[Skybox]

Yeah, could be. It's like we are watching the plan unfurl at the wrong speed. Need some time lapse to see the evolution.

Exactly. You make a great point about the plan being slow and it being tough to quite understand it as a result. I’ll add that plans stretched over a long period of time have a greater chance of not working, due to the insane level of variables and the fact we are dealing with actual humans here (which is as unpredictable as it gets).

For me personally, I’ve grown to have a healthy level of distrust in any rebuild plan that takes a long time without any updates or details being given on it. Yes it can work out, but more often than not you wind up with a Cleveland Browns-esque plan where the GM gets fired after a 7 year rebuild that stalls and the fans are told to once again have patience.

Weltman has prided himself on playing his cards close to the vest, but an update on the rebuild to fans at some point this off-season feels like it would help fans regain that faith.

We need more transparency from them, period. They pride themselves on running a clandestine operation. The meme that no one knows what Weltman is doing is tired and old. They're so damn clandestine that NBA fans probably don't even know we exist cuz they haven't seen a nationally televised Magic game in years. I'm starting to correlate the lack of national attention and exposure for players with our pride in running a clandestine operation. And frankly, I think it's pathetic and tired. At the end of the day, this is an entertainment business and if the magic don't contribute to the rumor mill, which drives viewership, maybe there's a bit of quid pro quo and we get left out? Either way, Weltman is a bit too precious with his secrets and he needs to be more transparent with the fans.

I don’t mind clandestine…I kind of admire it

But it’d be a lot more impressive if there were actual results shown. So far, the only great “gotcha” they dropped on the world was drafting Paolo unexpectedly…and they had the #1 anyway - so it’s not like they pulled some Danny Ainge/Fultz/Tatum heist.

The stage is set. No one’s talking about ORL …if they pull Murray or an out of the blue score like Simons, etc, it would feed the “secret meetings” narrative over the golf narrative.

[Black and Blue]

Exactly. You make a great point about the plan being slow and it being tough to quite understand it as a result. I’ll add that plans stretched over a long period of time have a greater chance of not working, due to the insane level of variables and the fact we are dealing with actual humans here (which is as unpredictable as it gets).

For me personally, I’ve grown to have a healthy level of distrust in any rebuild plan that takes a long time without any updates or details being given on it. Yes it can work out, but more often than not you wind up with a Cleveland Browns-esque plan where the GM gets fired after a 7 year rebuild that stalls and the fans are told to once again have patience.

Weltman has prided himself on playing his cards close to the vest, but an update on the rebuild to fans at some point this off-season feels like it would help fans regain that faith.

We need more transparency from them, period. They pride themselves on running a clandestine operation. The meme that no one knows what Weltman is doing is tired and old. They're so damn clandestine that NBA fans probably don't even know we exist cuz they haven't seen a nationally televised Magic game in years. I'm starting to correlate the lack of national attention and exposure for players with our pride in running a clandestine operation. And frankly, I think it's pathetic and tired. At the end of the day, this is an entertainment business and if the magic don't contribute to the rumor mill, which drives viewership, maybe there's a bit of quid pro quo and we get left out? Either way, Weltman is a bit too precious with his secrets and he needs to be more transparent with the fans.

I don’t mind clandestine…I kind of admire it

But it’d be a lot more impressive if there were actual results shown. So far, the only great “gotcha” they dropped on the world was drafting Paolo unexpectedly…and they had the #1 anyway - so it’s not like they pulled some Danny Ainge/Fultz/Tatum heist.

The stage is set. No one’s talking about ORL …if they pull Murray or an out of the blue score like Simons, etc, it would feed the “secret meetings” narrative over the golf narrative.

The expectations are so low that I think Weltman would foster a lot of goodwill after the deadline if he simply said, “We actively looked into any and all deals and not only did none of them significantly help the team, but the teams offering wanted WAY more than the media has let on. We want to grow this team smartly and not throw away our assets. Trust us, once the opportunity presents itself we WILL strike.”

Instead I am certain if Weltman does nothing he will say little to nothing and the players and fans will wonder how truly committed he is to actively improving the team outside of the draft. It’s crazy how much a little communication can help, but executives see widespread information as a weakness (probably due to getting atomic wedgies by bullies when they were 10).

[RichCollab]

Superstar Paolo
Franchise Franz
Open
Elite 3 and D Suggs
Open Center

I feel like we have 3/5 of our SL locked in. We may already have our center WCJ, Goga, or JI. I want us to lock in that 3rd star/borderline star player before deciding on our center.

JI and WCJ definitely need to improve health.

Black could become that 3rd star but not having Elite shooting or being a good player maker doesn’t seem to fit. Our FO love size, BBIQ, and defense which is exactly what Black is but he doesn’t add what we actually need in that 3rd star.

Can WCJ help Black fit SL by being able to shoot? I don’t think it would be enough.

I actually think we will move Black at some point. I don’t want to move Suggs as even if adding him to a trade brings in that 3rd star we would be moving the ball slightly losing our elite 3 and D player.

[Skybox]

We need more transparency from them, period. They pride themselves on running a clandestine operation. The meme that no one knows what Weltman is doing is tired and old. They're so damn clandestine that NBA fans probably don't even know we exist cuz they haven't seen a nationally televised Magic game in years. I'm starting to correlate the lack of national attention and exposure for players with our pride in running a clandestine operation. And frankly, I think it's pathetic and tired. At the end of the day, this is an entertainment business and if the magic don't contribute to the rumor mill, which drives viewership, maybe there's a bit of quid pro quo and we get left out? Either way, Weltman is a bit too precious with his secrets and he needs to be more transparent with the fans.

I don’t mind clandestine…I kind of admire it

But it’d be a lot more impressive if there were actual results shown. So far, the only great “gotcha” they dropped on the world was drafting Paolo unexpectedly…and they had the #1 anyway - so it’s not like they pulled some Danny Ainge/Fultz/Tatum heist.

The stage is set. No one’s talking about ORL …if they pull Murray or an out of the blue score like Simons, etc, it would feed the “secret meetings” narrative over the golf narrative.

The expectations are so low that I think Weltman would foster a lot of goodwill after the deadline if he simply said, “We actively looked into any and all deals and not only did none of them significantly help the team, but the teams offering wanted WAY more than the media has let on. We want to grow this team smartly and not throw away our assets. Trust us, once the opportunity presents itself we WILL strike.”

Instead I am certain if Weltman does nothing he will say little to nothing and the players and fans will wonder how truly committed he is to actively improving the team outside of the draft. It’s crazy how much a little communication can help, but executives see widespread information as a weakness (probably due to getting atomic wedgies by bullies when they were 10).

that PR crap doesn't do a thing for me unless we read that the guys that could have helped us went for astronomical deals...which I don't expect.

I'm still hopeful but consider how that story would sound if Murray goes to LAL for DLo and two conditional picks in the next century and Tyus Jones goes to NYK for 2 srps, etc. Guys WILL be traded and we will know the final terms and then we can judge whether he's even in the game or an outsider when it comes to serious discussions.

Like I said, I'm hopeful. I was hopeful last trade deadline, but rationalized that it was still premature. Then I did the same last summer - conditions were good, but nothing happened. OK, maybe we're not quite ready to trade away either of our TWO lottery picks after drafting 3 really good players in the last 2 drafts...this is it. Time is now or I just don't know how to rationalize his nothing talk and clandestine operations - if they don't lead to anything beyond a no-offense PG who might become a better version of the ill-fitting one we have and a G-League superstar. Just painting a bad, but very possible scenario...not the one I hope to see and still can.

He seems like the kind of "I'm reading books about power" douche, that doesn't commit to anything specifically, dodges direct questions in negotiations, thinks he's gaining leverage by delaying and making others "submit to his pacing"....and then wakes up to the news that Riley made a deal in a 15 min call at midnight while he slept with a snarky grin on his face. In the morning, he says his affirmations and convinces himself, again, that he won.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I don’t mind clandestine…I kind of admire it

But it’d be a lot more impressive if there were actual results shown. So far, the only great “gotcha” they dropped on the world was drafting Paolo unexpectedly…and they had the #1 anyway - so it’s not like they pulled some Danny Ainge/Fultz/Tatum heist.

The stage is set. No one’s talking about ORL …if they pull Murray or an out of the blue score like Simons, etc, it would feed the “secret meetings” narrative over the golf narrative.

The expectations are so low that I think Weltman would foster a lot of goodwill after the deadline if he simply said, “We actively looked into any and all deals and not only did none of them significantly help the team, but the teams offering wanted WAY more than the media has let on. We want to grow this team smartly and not throw away our assets. Trust us, once the opportunity presents itself we WILL strike.”

Instead I am certain if Weltman does nothing he will say little to nothing and the players and fans will wonder how truly committed he is to actively improving the team outside of the draft. It’s crazy how much a little communication can help, but executives see widespread information as a weakness (probably due to getting atomic wedgies by bullies when they were 10).

that PR crap doesn't do a thing for me unless we read that the guys that could have helped us went for astronomical deals...which I don't expect.

I'm still hopeful but consider how that story would sound if Murray goes to LAL for DLo and two conditional picks in the next century and Tyus Jones goes to NYK for 2 srps, etc. Guys WILL be traded and we will know the final terms and then we can judge whether he's even in the game or an outsider when it comes to serious discussions.

Like I said, I'm hopeful. I was hopeful last trade deadline, but rationalized that it was still premature. Then I did the same last summer - conditions were good, but nothing happened. OK, maybe we're not quite ready to trade away either of our TWO lottery picks after drafting 3 really good players in the last 2 drafts...this is it. Time is now or I just don't know how to rationalize his nothing talk and clandestine operations - if they don't lead to anything beyond a no-offense PG who might become a better version of the ill-fitting one we have and a G-League superstar. Just painting a bad, but very possible scenario...not the one I hope to see and still can.

He seems like the kind of "I'm reading books about power" douche, that doesn't commit to anything specifically, dodges direct questions in negotiations, thinks he's gaining leverage by delaying and making others "submit to his pacing"....and then wakes up to the news that Riley made a deal in a 15 min call at midnight while he slept with a snarky grin on his face. In the morning, he says his affirmations and convinces himself, again, that he won.

I don’t feel like they really did their due diligence this past draft. It feels more like they just had nbadraft.net opened and went with whoever the next projected pick was. Having a PG with zero offensive ability is not sustainable.

[pepe1991]

"He seems like the kind of "I'm reading books about power" douche, that doesn't commit to anything specifically, dodges direct questions in negotiations, thinks he's gaining leverage by delaying and making others "submit to his pacing"....and then wakes up to the news that Riley made a deal in a 15 min call at midnight while he slept with a snarky grin on his face. In the morning, he says his affirmations and convinces himself, again, that he won."


LOOOOOOOOOL

[drsd]

Orlando Magic fans should be patient with this roster until next season at best!

They don't wanna mess with their cap space and while this team has obvious holes from shooting, rim protection and turnovers.

We could be looking at another lottery team with us being currently at 23-22. No one wants a quick fix, so we need to fix this roster in the off season.

As for Fultz, I would definitely resign for cheap especially if he considers TOS surgery to fix those nerves vs acquiring a Tyus Jones who is a free agent that will command a big pay day.

Boooooo.

Look: Orlando must make the playins as an absolute minimum. The 6th seed for the playoffs only requires a small structural trade that does not "mess with cap sapce". Is "Anthony for Eric Gordon" really that difficult here to accept? Or even "Fultz for Trent Jr."?
These sorts of trades lock the Magic to the playoffs over the play-ins, and leave the Magic with the same cap space as now.

[eyriq]

Run it back and we are on track for 44-42 wins.

Main issues that remain if we run it back:
- Goga, Jett, and Black lack a clear path to mins
- Heavy salary commitment to injury prone players
- Glaring weaknesses behind the arc and with playmaking

They will definitely be happy with 44 to 42 wins, but they can't be content with the discontinuity due to injuries and the glaring weaknesses in three point shooting and playmaking.

A point guard upgrade just makes too much sense.

[VFX]

Orlando Magic fans should be patient with this roster until next season at best!

They don't wanna mess with their cap space and while this team has obvious holes from shooting, rim protection and turnovers.

We could be looking at another lottery team with us being currently at 23-22. No one wants a quick fix, so we need to fix this roster in the off season.

As for Fultz, I would definitely resign for cheap especially if he considers TOS surgery to fix those nerves vs acquiring a Tyus Jones who is a free agent that will command a big pay day.

What? I disagree with all of these statements 100%.

We have a bunch of expiring guys and Paolo/Franz/Suggs development years. We have cap space already.

Fultz is cooked. He isn’t resigning here for “cheap”.

If you and Weltman had your way Orlando would be a treadmill saving money every season using injuries as an excuse to stay in office.

We would still be watching AG/Vuc/Fournier if the players didn’t have enough and tell Weltman they were done settling.