The irony: Lakers complain to league about calls

[KyRo23]

Warriors suck but Lakers go to the foul line more against all teams, so come up with a better argument than "your team sucks, that is why the Lakers got almost more FTs."

Yeah Lakers beat a team that sucks by one point, despite being +27 from the FT line.

But don't worry, league will make sure the Lakers make it, probably to the WCF again. Enjoy the free ride, to the FT line that is!

Go back and watch the tape.

I remember when the Scottie Barnes tape came out and people were like ... uh these aren't fouls? And then Raps fans came back like, "but you don't understand, the Lakers get the ticky tack fouls!" And then people were like, okay so where's that tape? And some poor dweeb had to go back to compile that video and it never came out. And it never came out because that person realized there were no unforgivable transgressions that occurred. Then two games later the Lakers went -15 on a free throw differential with the softest calls going for Sexton and Clarkson and nobody in the NBA world made a peep.

This thread is a thread because of confirmation bias, casuals, and toxic internet hive mind. The Lakers leading in one statistical category must be a conspiracy. The team giving up the most 3s and the highest percentage on them doesn't foul a lot. Conspiracy.

Form an original opinion.

It's such confirmation bias. You will see what you want to see.

What are we arguing, because Reaves shot however many FTs this game, the refs just rig it for him to shoot FTs? The guy shoots 3 FTs a game that's all I hear is the Reaves FT issue

Curry shoots more FTs per game than LeBron this season

Like what are we really doing here? Why is LeBron not getting this amazing bias from the refs, but LA as a team is?

Bro the Warriors shot 58 3s tonight That is 31 more than LA did. Do you know how wild that is?

[KyRo23]

Was LeBron's last bucket a travel?

Nah you are allowed a gather step. You will see what he did 50 times a game

[zimpy27]

There is a reason this is a topic and it isn’t because this is an echo chamber.

You're proudly and historically anti-Lakers arguing in an anti-Lakers thread that it's not an echo chamber...

[KyRo23]

Go back and watch the tape.

I remember when the Scottie Barnes tape came out and people were like ... uh these aren't fouls? And then Raps fans came back like, "but you don't understand, the Lakers get the ticky tack fouls!" And then people were like, okay so where's that tape? And some poor dweeb had to go back to compile that video and it never came out. And it never came out because that person realized there were no unforgivable transgressions that occurred. Then two games later the Lakers went -15 on a free throw differential with the softest calls going for Sexton and Clarkson and nobody in the NBA world made a peep.

This thread is a thread because of confirmation bias, casuals, and toxic internet hive mind. The Lakers leading in one statistical category must be a conspiracy. The team giving up the most 3s and the highest percentage on them doesn't foul a lot. Conspiracy.

Form an original opinion.

Calling people casuals when there has been statistics and analysis to back up the allegation it’s comical especially when most Lakers fans excuse is “but Ham instructs them not to foul”.

This thread was created because their FT differential was at an historic high for the last 3 months of the season. Literally the highest we’ve ever seen in NBA history and 2nd wasn’t even close.

Look, they’ve come back down to a more “normal” number now with only a +5.0 FTA differential which is half of what it was for the last 4 months of last season and first 2 months of this season. But they still lead the league by over 1.4 FTA.

They’re still 29th in the league in drives, 20th in paint touches per game and 16th in shots within 9 feet of the basket.

But sure, they just miraculously don’t foul teams and somehow get to the foul line a lot while not attacking the basket as much as other teams.

If you can’t see that run last year was grossly manufactured, then I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

Last year's run was grossly manufactured. Now go to sleep. I don't want to do this dance with you for the 100th time. You're selling slop that you think is gold, and people love to eat up the slop.

You're welcome to track plays on Laker games and note the crimes being committed in broad daylight. Then you and I can compare notes on opposite ends of the bias spectrum and come to a reasonable consensus. Until then, it's all reactionary cherrypicking macro-stats to support an argument that you already believe a priori.

This may be a triple post from me, so sorry if I am

But I literally did this during the playoffs. In the game threads for a few games I would track the missed calls for the other team and the Lakers just to see when someone would call for rigged. I think in the 2nd round I posted 5 or 6 bad calls against LA... and no one said a word. The first bad call that went LA's way, 2 pages of whining happened. I'm sure some people remember when I did it, but to be fair I almost forgot as well

[levon]

Warriors suck but Lakers go to the foul line more against all teams, so come up with a better argument than "your team sucks, that is why the Lakers got almost more FTs."

Yeah Lakers beat a team that sucks by one point, despite being +27 from the FT line.

But don't worry, league will make sure the Lakers make it, probably to the WCF again. Enjoy the free ride, to the FT line that is!

Go back and watch the tape.

I remember when the Scottie Barnes tape came out and people were like ... uh these aren't fouls? And then Raps fans came back like, "but you don't understand, the Lakers get the ticky tack fouls!" And then people were like, okay so where's that tape? And some poor dweeb had to go back to compile that video and it never came out. And it never came out because that person realized there were no unforgivable transgressions that occurred. Then two games later the Lakers went -15 on a free throw differential with the softest calls going for Sexton and Clarkson and nobody in the NBA world made a peep.

This thread is a thread because of confirmation bias, casuals, and toxic internet hive mind. The Lakers leading in one statistical category must be a conspiracy. The team giving up the most 3s and the highest percentage on them doesn't foul a lot. Conspiracy.

Form an original opinion.

It's such confirmation bias. You will see what you want to see.

What are we arguing, because Reaves shot however many FTs this game, the refs just rig it for him to shoot FTs? The guy shoots 3 FTs a game that's all I hear is the Reaves FT issue

Curry shoots more FTs per game than LeBron this season

Like what are we really doing here? Why is LeBron not getting this amazing bias from the refs, but LA as a team is?

Bro the Warriors shot 58 3s tonight That is 31 more than LA did. Do you know how wild that is?

I wasn't gonna bring up the 58 3's and was hoping wco could figure it out themselves.

10 intentional foul free throws. 2 illegal defense free throws. That means LA got 31 free throws trying to get field goals.

15 free throw attempts for the Dubs if you subtract the technical foul.

So we're disputing 8 possessions here. In a game with a 58 to 27 3pt attempt disparity. Mind-numbingly stupid. As someone else said in this thread earlier, the Lakers deserved more calls than they were getting.

The only non-foul was Curry on Russell's jumper, but they made it up with the marginal AD foul on Wiggins after he released the layup. Meanwhile the Warriors employ a man that is scraping faces and taunting after doing it. Like have some goddamn self awareness as a fan.

[levon]

This may be a triple post from me, so sorry if I am

But I literally did this during the playoffs. In the game threads for a few games I would track the missed calls for the other team and the Lakers just to see when someone would call for rigged. I think in the 2nd round I posted 5 or 6 bad calls against LA... and no one said a word. The first bad call that went LA's way, 2 pages of whining happened. I'm sure some people remember when I did it, but to be fair I almost forgot as well

The game threads were a **** nightmare last season. The Denver series in particular was like bot farm level. Posters that I'd never seen before crawled out of the woodwork. It was like a ballstreamz chatroom.

[JRoy]

There is a reason this is a topic and it isn’t because this is an echo chamber.

You're proudly and historically anti-Lakers arguing in an anti-Lakers thread that it's not an echo chamber...

It is the truth.

Pretending it is not the truth does not make it not the truth.

[levon]

There is a reason this is a topic and it isn’t because this is an echo chamber.

You're proudly and historically anti-Lakers arguing in an anti-Lakers thread that it's not an echo chamber...

It is the truth.

Pretending it is not the truth does not make it not the truth.

The truth is they're dead last in 3pa per game, 2nd/3rd in shots within 5 feet of the rim depending on if you measure per possession or per game, and consequently second in the league in 2pt FGA frequency, only 0.1 behind the Pistons.

They don't just attempt 2s more than anyone, but teams also disproportionately pack the paint against them because their two best players are a 4 and a 5, and they can't/won't shoot 3s. Tell me what other team that's true for. Hint: There's no other team that's true for.

Also true is the fact that their 5 is a top 3 defender that holds that title because he defends without fouling, and they give up the most wide open 3s in the league (at an infuriatingly high percentage) because that's the scheme.

This is the truth. Pretending it's not the truth doesn't make it not the truth.

The reason last year's differential was such an outlier was Dennis Schroder being an overwhelming foul merchant along with Reaves. Foul trouble creates a kind of compounding effect which makes the numbers more exaggerated than they are. I literally called it that when they lose Schroder, this exaggerated effect would go away.

[AussieCeltic]

Go back and watch the tape.

I remember when the Scottie Barnes tape came out and people were like ... uh these aren't fouls? And then Raps fans came back like, "but you don't understand, the Lakers get the ticky tack fouls!" And then people were like, okay so where's that tape? And some poor dweeb had to go back to compile that video and it never came out. And it never came out because that person realized there were no unforgivable transgressions that occurred. Then two games later the Lakers went -15 on a free throw differential with the softest calls going for Sexton and Clarkson and nobody in the NBA world made a peep.

This thread is a thread because of confirmation bias, casuals, and toxic internet hive mind. The Lakers leading in one statistical category must be a conspiracy. The team giving up the most 3s and the highest percentage on them doesn't foul a lot. Conspiracy.

Form an original opinion.

Calling people casuals when there has been statistics and analysis to back up the allegation it’s comical especially when most Lakers fans excuse is “but Ham instructs them not to foul”.

This thread was created because their FT differential was at an historic high for the last 3 months of the season. Literally the highest we’ve ever seen in NBA history and 2nd wasn’t even close.

Look, they’ve come back down to a more “normal” number now with only a +5.0 FTA differential which is half of what it was for the last 4 months of last season and first 2 months of this season. But they still lead the league by over 1.4 FTA.

They’re still 29th in the league in drives, 20th in paint touches per game and 16th in shots within 9 feet of the basket.

But sure, they just miraculously don’t foul teams and somehow get to the foul line a lot while not attacking the basket as much as other teams.

If you can’t see that run last year was grossly manufactured, then I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

Last year's run was grossly manufactured. Now go to sleep. I don't want to do this dance with you for the 100th time. You're selling slop that you think is gold, and people love to eat up the slop.

You're welcome to track plays on Laker games and note the crimes being committed in broad daylight. Then you and I can compare notes on opposite ends of the bias spectrum and come to a reasonable consensus. Until then, it's all reactionary cherrypicking macro-stats to support an argument that you already believe a priori.

You want me to personally track each and every Lakers game and break down the calls which seem unjust? Haha good one.

I’ve already spent plenty of time looking at the numbers and data. I talk in the game threads. I’ll openly say if a team benefits a call or not (even against my own team unlike most here).

At the end of the day, last season post Celtics game in Boston and Laker meltdown, the Lakers had the highest free throw differential in NBA history by a long way even though there was no logical statistic to back it up (like high paint touches, drives, shots in the paint etc).

It was not normal. I’m a numbers guy and there just wasn’t any justifiable causes to correlate what we were witnessing. They literally had an 11 FTA before starting every single game for 3 months last year and first 2 months this year.

They currently lead the league at +5.0 (which is 1.4 higher than second) yet you think we should be ok with +11?

If it was any other team other than the Lakers, you’d be upset to.

[JRoy]

You're proudly and historically anti-Lakers arguing in an anti-Lakers thread that it's not an echo chamber...

It is the truth.

Pretending it is not the truth does not make it not the truth.

The truth is they're dead last in 3pa per game, 2nd/3rd in shots within 5 feet of the rim depending on if you measure per possession or per game, and consequently second in the league in 2pt FGA frequency, only 0.1 behind the Pistons.

They don't just attempt 2s more than anyone, but teams also disproportionately pack the paint against them because their two best players are a 4 and a 5, and they can't/won't shoot 3s. Tell me what other team that's true for. Also true is the fact that their 5 is a top 3 defender that holds that title because he defends without fouling, and they give up the most wide open 3s in the league (at an infuriatingly high percentage) because that's the scheme.

This is the truth. Pretending it's not the truth doesn't make it not the truth.

The reason last year's differential was such an outlier was Dennis Schroder being an overwhelming foul merchant along with Reaves. Foul trouble creates a kind of compounding effect which makes the numbers more exaggerated than they are. I literally called it that when they lose Schroder, this exaggerated effect would go away.

Why shoot threes when you can count on a huge FTA every game?

[levon]

It is the truth.

Pretending it is not the truth does not make it not the truth.

The truth is they're dead last in 3pa per game, 2nd/3rd in shots within 5 feet of the rim depending on if you measure per possession or per game, and consequently second in the league in 2pt FGA frequency, only 0.1 behind the Pistons.

They don't just attempt 2s more than anyone, but teams also disproportionately pack the paint against them because their two best players are a 4 and a 5, and they can't/won't shoot 3s. Tell me what other team that's true for. Also true is the fact that their 5 is a top 3 defender that holds that title because he defends without fouling, and they give up the most wide open 3s in the league (at an infuriatingly high percentage) because that's the scheme.

This is the truth. Pretending it's not the truth doesn't make it not the truth.

The reason last year's differential was such an outlier was Dennis Schroder being an overwhelming foul merchant along with Reaves. Foul trouble creates a kind of compounding effect which makes the numbers more exaggerated than they are. I literally called it that when they lose Schroder, this exaggerated effect would go away.

Why shoot threes when you can count on a huge FTA every game?

Why add anything of value when snarky one liners get a rise out of internet strangers? Let's each ponder that.

[levon]

Calling people casuals when there has been statistics and analysis to back up the allegation it’s comical especially when most Lakers fans excuse is “but Ham instructs them not to foul”.

This thread was created because their FT differential was at an historic high for the last 3 months of the season. Literally the highest we’ve ever seen in NBA history and 2nd wasn’t even close.

Look, they’ve come back down to a more “normal” number now with only a +5.0 FTA differential which is half of what it was for the last 4 months of last season and first 2 months of this season. But they still lead the league by over 1.4 FTA.

They’re still 29th in the league in drives, 20th in paint touches per game and 16th in shots within 9 feet of the basket.

But sure, they just miraculously don’t foul teams and somehow get to the foul line a lot while not attacking the basket as much as other teams.

If you can’t see that run last year was grossly manufactured, then I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

Last year's run was grossly manufactured. Now go to sleep. I don't want to do this dance with you for the 100th time. You're selling slop that you think is gold, and people love to eat up the slop.

You're welcome to track plays on Laker games and note the crimes being committed in broad daylight. Then you and I can compare notes on opposite ends of the bias spectrum and come to a reasonable consensus. Until then, it's all reactionary cherrypicking macro-stats to support an argument that you already believe a priori.

You want me to personally track each and every Lakers game and break down the calls which seem unjust? Haha good one.

I’ve already spent plenty of time looking at the numbers and data. I talk in the game threads. I’ll openly say if a team benefits a call or not (even against my own team unlike most here).

At the end of the day, last season post Celtics game in Boston and Laker meltdown, the Lakers had the highest free throw differential in NBA history by a long way even though there was no logical statistic to back it up (like high paint touches, drives, shots in the paint etc).

It was not normal. I’m a numbers guy and there just wasn’t any justifiable causes to correlate what we were witnessing. They literally had an 11 FTA before starting every single game for 3 months last year and first 2 months this year.

They currently lead the league at +5.0 (which is 1.4 higher than second) yet you think we should be ok with +11?

If it was any other team other than the Lakers, you’d be upset to.

I watch all the Lakers games. I can't comment on what the Celtics get away with because I don't watch the Celtics. I don't want you to do anything. What I'm saying is you're not correlating the free throw differential to any qualitative aspect of the game. You're throwing out drives per game. Last year, LA was 3rd in the league in FGA <5ft, 2nd in 3PA given up per game, and 26th in 3pt attempts themselves. They're the only team whose two highest usage guys are at the 4 and 5 and have an offense from 2008. Teams pack the paint against them like they do no one else, because they'd rather live with Laker 3s than LeBron/AD scores. DPOY-level defender in the paint. And to top it all off, they had two foul merchants on an absolute tear (Reaves' foul game has been scouted, Schroder has left).

I've never heard you once address any of the basketball-related things that make this team's build and schemes unique. It's all about cherrypicking drives/game for you. Until we actually talk about, you know, the phenomenon we're actually trying to model, I have a hard time taking this exercise seriously. There's no rigor, it's just us throwing numerical poop at each other. Which is a lot more than what others do, so I respect you as a poster for sure. I just think there's a level of disingenuousness to the way you're going about this exercise.

[JN61]

Was LeBron's last bucket a travel?

Nah you are allowed a gather step. You will see what he did 50 times a game

Nah you are allowed to travel in NBA. You will see what he did his entire career.*

[levon]

Like, objectively as a fan of no particular team when I watch non-Laker games, I think the Warriors play a very physical brand of defense that they don't get called for as much as other teams would. I think Sabonis sets some nasty screens. I think JJJ gets away with a lot and could be in more foul trouble than he is. I think the Knicks bludgeon people and rely on the refs not being able to call everything, and refs will play into the "brands" of these teams and officiate them differently.

When I watch the Lakers defense, there's almost never been a game from 2021 to 2024 where I've thought, wow these guys are getting away with so much. The 2019-2021 teams sure. But this iteration is the most calculated, least imposing, and conservative style defense I've seen. In a lot of ways they take what the offense gives them and it's a bad quality that's making them a mediocre team, and reinforcing this idea that they're a mediocre team that the league keeps afloat by not calling them for fouls, when in reality these are two sides of the same phenomenon.

[DonaldSanders]

There is a reason this is a topic and it isn’t because this is an echo chamber.

You're proudly and historically anti-Lakers arguing in an anti-Lakers thread that it's not an echo chamber...

And you are the WarriorGM of Laker fans. Be careful casting stones.

[AussieCeltic]

Like, objectively as a fan of no particular team when I watch non-Laker games, I think the Warriors play a very physical brand of defense that they don't get called for as much as other teams would. I think Sabonis sets some nasty screens. I think JJJ gets away with a lot and could be in more foul trouble than he is. I think the Knicks bludgeon people and rely on the refs not being able to call everything, and refs will play into the "brands" of these teams and officiate them differently.

When I watch the Lakers defense, there's almost never been a game from 2021 to 2024 where I've thought, wow these guys are getting away with so much. The 2019-2021 teams sure. But this iteration is the most calculated, least imposing, and conservative style defense I've seen. In a lot of ways they take what the offense gives them and it's a bad quality that's making them a mediocre team, and reinforcing this idea that they're a mediocre team that the league keeps afloat by not calling them for fouls, when in reality these are two sides of the same phenomenon.

Wow. Guy thinks his team with highest free throw differential in NBA history, doesn’t get away with things but others do.

You can’t make it up

[zimpy27]

There is a reason this is a topic and it isn’t because this is an echo chamber.

You're proudly and historically anti-Lakers arguing in an anti-Lakers thread that it's not an echo chamber...

And you are the WarriorGM of Laker fans. Be careful casting stones.

I'm not even really a Lakers fan, I'm a LeBron fan.
Or is that what you mean? Is warriorGM just a Curry fan?

And what stone was cast exactly? JRoy is a self-described Lakers hater, he wears it as a badge of honor.

Seems like you're the only one throwing stones Donald

[zimpy27]

Like, objectively as a fan of no particular team when I watch non-Laker games, I think the Warriors play a very physical brand of defense that they don't get called for as much as other teams would. I think Sabonis sets some nasty screens. I think JJJ gets away with a lot and could be in more foul trouble than he is. I think the Knicks bludgeon people and rely on the refs not being able to call everything, and refs will play into the "brands" of these teams and officiate them differently.

When I watch the Lakers defense, there's almost never been a game from 2021 to 2024 where I've thought, wow these guys are getting away with so much. The 2019-2021 teams sure. But this iteration is the most calculated, least imposing, and conservative style defense I've seen. In a lot of ways they take what the offense gives them and it's a bad quality that's making them a mediocre team, and reinforcing this idea that they're a mediocre team that the league keeps afloat by not calling them for fouls, when in reality these are two sides of the same phenomenon.

You're right and this is actually worthy of decent discussion. Instead we get this reductionist thread from the boxies.

[KembaWalker]

lol I saw a double ot 140 game and knew before looking the Lakers must have had at least a 20 ft discrepancy to keep up in a game like that. Wasn't disappointed when I checked, of course. Mission accomplished

[Johnny Bball]

38 made free throws for the Lakers on 43 attempts.

11 made free throws for the Warriors out of 16 attempts.

Curry, 3-3 from the FT line.

Austin Reaves, 8-9 from the FT line.

DLo, 7-7 from the FT line.

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401585278


I know, Curry doesn't drive at all, while AR and DLo are taking it to the rack all the time.

Warriors outshot the Lakers not just from 3 but FG overall. FT more than makes up for it.

"Rivals week". Look at the ESPN article and headline, for a 10th place spot. Its an embarassing amount of hype for this type of game. And 43 FTAs to 16 is sick.