2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start

[Puff]

I watched that game last night and was concerned about how many extra shots the Pacers were getting based on rebounding and hustle. I felt like we were also having trouble on the offensive side of the ball but 17 freaking points in the 4th quarter with the big 3 healthy, well Beale was messed up, is unacceptable.

What is the problem. Roster or Coaching?

I think both are to blame. This type of performance has been an ongoing problem all season. We are still the worst scoring team in the entire NBA at 24.7 points per game. If we do not fix this issue we have no chance in the playoffs, if we make the playoffs.

This is what needs to be fixed whether it be coaching or roster.

Last night the Big 3 did not get in done in the 4th quarter.

LMAO

Of COURSE you show up after the 1st loss in weeks. Of course you do. I didn't see a single post from you during the 7 game win streak, but the second we lose, you can find time to be here gloating and happy about our loss.

:clown:

Honk, honk.

I am happy that they won 7 in a row but am not all that impressed.

I have been watching that coach you wanted us to hire "Quin the Great Snyder". His great coaching has done nothing for that Atlanta franchise. Utah says thank you.

I doubt that our record would be any worse with Monty and quite possibly better than with "Over Rated".

You and everyone else blamed Monty for not making adjustments. Vogel has struggled making those all season long. Hopefully he figures that out sooner than later. I don't get a boner every time the Suns win a game. I think we added Beal and Durrant to dominate the 4th quarter. That is not what has happened thus far this season. Open your eyes.

We should not have lost that game last night. You can pin our loss last night on the "Big Three" They all crapped the bed in the 4th quarter. How can than happen?

Foff

[schnakenpopanz]

watching the bos/lac game right now. if the clippers will play like this, which they are doing last 20+ games, they might give them the trophy right now.

[schnakenpopanz]

21-4 since start of december... and really quality wins.
suns will not meet them until end of schedule. they have added a very valuable piece in theis. have a quality bench and play defense.

[Slim Charless]

I watched that game last night and was concerned about how many extra shots the Pacers were getting based on rebounding and hustle. I felt like we were also having trouble on the offensive side of the ball but 17 freaking points in the 4th quarter with the big 3 healthy, well Beale was messed up, is unacceptable.

What is the problem. Roster or Coaching?

I think both are to blame. This type of performance has been an ongoing problem all season. We are still the worst scoring team in the entire NBA at 24.7 points per game. If we do not fix this issue we have no chance in the playoffs, if we make the playoffs.

This is what needs to be fixed whether it be coaching or roster.

Last night the Big 3 did not get in done in the 4th quarter.

LMAO

Of COURSE you show up after the 1st loss in weeks. Of course you do. I didn't see a single post from you during the 7 game win streak, but the second we lose, you can find time to be here gloating and happy about our loss.



Honk, honk.

I am happy that they won 7 in a row but am not all that impressed.

I have been watching that coach you wanted us to hire "Quin the Great Snyder". His great coaching has done nothing for that Atlanta franchise. Utah says thank you.

I doubt that our record would be any worse with Monty and quite possibly better than with "Over Rated".

You and everyone else blamed Monty for not making adjustments. Vogel has struggled making those all season long. Hopefully he figures that out sooner than later. I don't get a boner every time the Suns win a game. I think we added Beal and Durrant to dominate the 4th quarter. That is not what has happened thus far this season. Open your eyes.

We should not have lost that game last night. You can pin our loss last night on the "Big Three" They all crapped the bed in the 4th quarter. How can than happen?

Foff

Honk, honk.

[Ghost of Kleine]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10106728-kyle-lowry-rumors-76ers-viewed-as-possible-landing-spot-if-hornets-cant-find-trade

Kyle Lowry Rumors: 76ers Viewed as Possible Landing Spot If Hornets Can't Find Trade
TYLER CONWAY X.com
JANUARY 26, 2024

The Philadelphia 76ers are reportedly viewed as a potential landing spot for Kyle Lowry if the Charlotte Hornets are unable to secure a trade.

Jake Fischer of Yahoo Sports reported the Sixers are in a prime position to land Lowry because they're one of only a few contenders below the first luxury tax apron, allowing them to sign Lowry on the buyout market. Lowry is also a Philadelphia native who played college basketball at nearby Villanova.

The Heat traded Lowry to the Hornets earlier this week as part of a deal that sent Terry Rozier to Miami. Lowry is not expected to play for Charlotte as the team embarks on a retooling with little use for a declining 37-year-old. While it's unlikely the Hornets will find a taker for Lowry's $29.7 million salary, they remain active on the trade market and hopeful a buyer will emerge before next month's deadline. If the likeliest scenario plays out, Lowry and the Hornets will almost certainly engage in buyout discussions, with the veteran giving back a little of his remaining salary to join a contender.

The Sixers need a primary ball-handler coming off the bench. That role has been largely handed over to Patrick Beverley this season, and it's not a strong suit. Beverley is a defensive pest and solid shooter from distance, but he's not a particularly skilled creator in the halfcourt.

Lowry is clearly well past his prime, averaging just 8.2 points and 4.0 assists per game in Miami, but he can fit in a limited role. He's also a playoff-tested veteran who could add a calming effect for a team that is still attempting to get past the conference semifinals. Nothing is certain, but Lowry coming to Philly is about as logical of an outcome that exists in this market.

Again, Philly is currently at the roster max with a full roster, and would need to cut a player to create an open roster spot to sign Lowry. We already know that we could likely get KJ Martin jr for only a 2nd. But additionally, the assets (2nds) and or additional cap space created from us using our 5 million exception for Pat Bev and Oubre or Pat Bev and KJ Martin jr would help them acquire more room to sign Lowry to a better deal and/or create another open spot or two for them to more aggressively target other buyout candidates. However, IF they'd prefer a player for player swap instead, we could happily send them Watanabe/ Bates Diop for a salary swap along with a 2nd or two maybe?

But I really like the idea (if possible) of adding some combination of KJ Martin Jr/ Pat Bev/ Oubre to our bench. Then use our other two remaining 2nds and our 6.5 million exception for Richards:

Pat Bev / Gordon / Oubre/ Bol/ Richards?
OR maybe
Gordon / K Mart Jr/ Oubre/ Bol/ Richards?

[SunsRback4Good]

watching the bos/lac game right now. if the clippers will play like this, which they are doing last 20+ games, they might give them the trophy right now.

I had no idea championship are won in January. Pretty cool if that’s the case. Bottom line is Harden and Westbrook normally choke in the playoffs and then your left to rely on PG & Kawhi. Well, good luck with that.

[Bogyo]

watching the bos/lac game right now. if the clippers will play like this, which they are doing last 20+ games, they might give them the trophy right now.

I had no idea championship are won in January. Pretty cool if that’s the case. Bottom line is Harden and Westbrook normally choke in the playoffs and then your left to rely on PG & Kawhi. Well, good luck with that.

Couple of points here:
I also feel like the Clippers are peaking too early, and will get injured when it matters. Happened like clockwork since they got together. Nevertheless they are playing awsome right now, good to watch, high level NBA with all 3 of their stars putting up good numbers and even better advanced stats. Good for them. On the other hand we might have caught the injury bug early and got it out of the way hopefully.

Boston was without Porzingis - they are not all that great without him. It just shows you that even the best team is (close to) medicore when their most important peg falls out - even though Porzingis is not one of their top 2 (3?) players. So when you are judging our performance with one of the big3 missing (or Nurk if/when) that happens, take this into consideration.

+1edit: Re-Clippers / I don't really want PJ after what's happening there. He is at a stage of his career when he can not get off a bench for that team, and Daniel Theiss is ahead of him in the rotation. If we need a "toughguy" to sit on the end of the bench fine, I like(d) him plenty in the previous parts of his career, but he aint gonna move the needle - or not much more than KDB/Eubanks.

[Frank Lee]

There are no needle movers available for the bucket of swill we have to offer. You could see this coming opening day back when the Three Stooges were putting their final touches on this roster. They were banking on mediocre players to take a giant leap….and no one has. Wishbia cleaned out the already depleted cupboards he inherited

[Calvin Klein]

watching the bos/lac game right now. if the clippers will play like this, which they are doing last 20+ games, they might give them the trophy right now.

I had no idea championship are won in January. Pretty cool if that’s the case. Bottom line is Harden and Westbrook normally choke in the playoffs and then your left to rely on PG & Kawhi. Well, good luck with that.

That’s why he used a conditional…

[Bogyo]

There are no needle movers available for the bucket of swill we have to offer. You could see this coming opening day back when the Three Stooges were putting their final touches on this roster. They were banking on mediocre players to take a giant leap….and no one has. Wishbia cleaned out the already depleted cupboards he inherited

True - so we have to get lucky a bit. We just might, as Bridges pretty much has can be only traded where he wants to go, so the Hornets might have to get content with an idea of recieving some form of turd from us rather than actual stuff from Washington or whoever else is in that race. And/or some other team might get dumb concerning another player. For example I have no idea why brooklyn would trade Royce here (or anywhere) as he is an actual player, and they have no pick this year...but rumors out there... Kinda the same with the Charlotte center - I have no clue why Hornets would want to trade a young C who is doing good, but rumours out there... some buyout guy might not be totally useless - for example I could see Biz helping this team, at least in ways of preserving Nurks health in the regular season, and 6 fouls to give in 10 minutes playing time against Jokic, or match up with Gobert in the playoffs for similar amount of time. Or the Drummond+Craig for Little+second could be OK as well for similar reasons, plus Craig is a more useful player than Okogie or KDB or Yuta (or Little for that matter). Two little tweaks, sprinkle in a bit of luck and we are in the hunt for real.

[SunsRback4Good]

watching the bos/lac game right now. if the clippers will play like this, which they are doing last 20+ games, they might give them the trophy right now.

I had no idea championship are won in January. Pretty cool if that’s the case. Bottom line is Harden and Westbrook normally choke in the playoffs and then your left to rely on PG & Kawhi. Well, good luck with that.

That’s why he used a conditional…

Air conditioner

[Hitachi77]

I watched that game last night and was concerned about how many extra shots the Pacers were getting based on rebounding and hustle. I felt like we were also having trouble on the offensive side of the ball but 17 freaking points in the 4th quarter with the big 3 healthy, well Beale was messed up, is unacceptable.

What is the problem. Roster or Coaching?

I think both are to blame. This type of performance has been an ongoing problem all season. We are still the worst scoring team in the entire NBA at 24.7 points per game. If we do not fix this issue we have no chance in the playoffs, if we make the playoffs.

This is what needs to be fixed whether it be coaching or roster.

Last night the Big 3 did not get in done in the 4th quarter.

LMAO

Of COURSE you show up after the 1st loss in weeks. Of course you do. I didn't see a single post from you during the 7 game win streak, but the second we lose, you can find time to be here gloating and happy about our loss.



Honk, honk.

I am happy that they won 7 in a row but am not all that impressed.

I have been watching that coach you wanted us to hire "Quin the Great Snyder". His great coaching has done nothing for that Atlanta franchise. Utah says thank you.

I doubt that our record would be any worse with Monty and quite possibly better than with "Over Rated".

You and everyone else blamed Monty for not making adjustments. Vogel has struggled making those all season long. Hopefully he figures that out sooner than later. I don't get a boner every time the Suns win a game. I think we added Beal and Durrant to dominate the 4th quarter. That is not what has happened thus far this season. Open your eyes.

We should not have lost that game last night. You can pin our loss last night on the "Big Three" They all crapped the bed in the 4th quarter. How can than happen?

Foff

That is one loss I wouldn’t put on coaching. Basically the Pacers gambled on defense and overplayed everyone, hoping it would lead to a turnover or bad decision instead of a wide open shot. It can work in spurts, or for a regular season game like this, but not a long term winning strategy. The players gotta react properly, that’s all, and the more they play together the more that defensive scheme will fail.

[Slim Charless]

If Suns somehow acquired Caruso and Craig for Grayson Allen, Little, 2nd rounder would most here be satisfied?

If Eric Gordon wasn't such an insignificant slob I might consider it.

Caruso is an elite defender. This trade is good, though it'd be great if we could somehow sneak Ayo into it as well instead of Craig. I think we have to see what they do with Lavine as you'd have to assume he's gone. Once the smoke clears, we could see if that trade flies.

I know everyone loves what Greyson has done, but it IS a contract year for him and it's not unheard of to see guys play their best ball in a contract year. Caruso is proven year after year. I'd do this trade all day.

[Stix]

Does everyone think having Beal with his contract is worth not having cap flexability and trade assets?

[Ghost of Kleine]

If Suns somehow acquired Caruso and Craig for Grayson Allen, Little, 2nd rounder would most here be satisfied?

If Eric Gordon wasn't such an insignificant slob I might consider it.

Caruso is an elite defender. This trade is good, though it'd be great if we could somehow sneak Ayo into it as well instead of Craig. I think we have to see what they do with Lavine as you'd have to assume he's gone. Once the smoke clears, we could see if that trade flies.

I know everyone loves what Greyson has done, but it IS a contract year for him and it's not unheard of to see guys play their best ball in a contract year. Caruso is proven year after year. I'd do this trade all day.

Anyone have an idea of what Pat Williams pricetag might be if the Bulls end up having a fire sale? I know that they are looking for two 1sts in return for Caruso due to all the recent interest. I'd love to have Caruso, but not at the expense of Allen if any way possible for that not to be the case.


But isn't PWill still a really good young defender with upside? If he can be had for maybe Little/ Watanabe/ Eubanks and maybe 2 2nds or something, wouldn't he be a reasonable pivot from Bridges who isn't really coming here anyways ( which I'm fine with) because he's better off resigning with the Hornets and can then be traded with his bird rights to some other team that'll give up better assets than we have anyways.

I I just don't see it happening honestly. But do think there's other options out there to still be considered. Maybe like..................... Orlando (Little is from Florida) and played ball there too!
Could we maybe do something like Little/ Bates/ Diop/ Metu or Eubanks/ 2 2nds for Okeke/ Bidatze/ Houston type of deal?? We can switch out Metu for Watanabe to give them another ( theoretical) shooter if necessary.

[Slim Charless]

Does everyone think having Durant with his contract is worth not having cap flexability and trade assets?

Fixed that for you. This is the ACTUAL problem, not the nonsense that you and Puff talk about with Beal. We got him for second round picks and Shamet LMAO.

KD's brutal overpay is what hurts this team going forward. Also, I noticed you didn't make any of these posts during our 7 game win streak. Interesting timing here for this post.

Either way, you're wrong. VERY wrong.

[Calvin Klein]

Does everyone think having Beal with his contract is worth not having cap flexability and trade assets?

It’s not. You could get valuable depth and defense with the money he gets.
It’s probably not as simple though but then again…I didn’t like any of the moves they made, expect the Ayton trade.

[sunskerr]

Anyone have an idea of what Pat Williams pricetag might be if the Bulls end up having a fire sale? I know that they are looking for two 1sts in return for Caruso due to all the recent interest. I'd love to have Caruso, but not at the expense of Allen if any way possible for that not to be the case.


But isn't PWill still a really good young defender with upside? If he can be had for maybe Little/ Watanabe/ Eubanks and maybe 2 2nds or something, wouldn't he be a reasonable pivot from Bridges who isn't really coming here anyways ( which I'm fine with) because he's better off resigning with the Hornets and can then be traded with his bird rights to some other team that'll give up better assets than we have anyways.

I I just don't see it happening honestly. But do think there's other options out there to still be considered. Maybe like..................... Orlando (Little is from Florida) and played ball there too!
Could we maybe do something like Little/ Bates/ Diop/ Metu or Eubanks/ 2 2nds for Okeke/ Bidatze/ Houston type of deal?? We can switch out Metu for Watanabe to give them another ( theoretical) shooter if necessary.

Don't know about the front office but Bulls fans are encouraged by Williams growth this year. They don't have any delusions about his potential anymore so now as a role player they're content if he can just be solid. His value probably is not close to Caruso, probably not even a first rounder but given his age (like 22 I think) there isnt much reason for them to trade him.

Bitadze would be a sneaky get. He is actually better than two of the guys in the rotation ahead of him (Mo Wagner and WCJ) but the Magic, or at least the coaching staff, have not realized that yet .

[Bogyo]

Does everyone think having Beal with his contract is worth not having cap flexability and trade assets?

It’s not. You could get valuable depth and defense with the money he gets.
It’s probably not as simple though but then again…I didn’t like any of the moves they made, expect the Ayton trade.

The original sin was the price of the KD trade. They really painted themselves in the corner with that - I'm not fully sure they weren't reeeeaaaallllyyyy close to it beforehand with that awful CP3 contract (originaloriginal sin?) and fornicAyton situation (worst ever original sin?).
So in a way the Beal trade was a no-brainer win in my book - that also came with a price. Basically we got a queen for a cornered in useless bishop and a pawn. We HAD to trade CP3 otherwise we'd be in hell right now, PLUS we got rid of Shamet. We had no other suitors for CP3, and damn sure noone lined up to get Shamet. If I look at all the available info there and fully realize the situation I'm already in, I make that trade 100 times out of 100. Even in hindsight. It made sense, and it worked out - and the "risk" of no flexibility was true beforhand as well, only in a worse situation with GrandPauls corpse on a 40 mill contract and Shamet taking up valuable oxygen on the bench, while also stealing 10 million dollars in broad daylight.

Now the price and the timing of the KD trade was a debacle, no matter how you slice it. Brooklyn had no leverage, we only would have had to wait for a couple of days to lower the price most likely - or up until the offseason in a worst case scenario. A true fckup of epic proportions.

[Bogyo]

Anyone have an idea of what Pat Williams pricetag might be if the Bulls end up having a fire sale? I know that they are looking for two 1sts in return for Caruso due to all the recent interest. I'd love to have Caruso, but not at the expense of Allen if any way possible for that not to be the case.


But isn't PWill still a really good young defender with upside? If he can be had for maybe Little/ Watanabe/ Eubanks and maybe 2 2nds or something, wouldn't he be a reasonable pivot from Bridges who isn't really coming here anyways ( which I'm fine with) because he's better off resigning with the Hornets and can then be traded with his bird rights to some other team that'll give up better assets than we have anyways.

I I just don't see it happening honestly. But do think there's other options out there to still be considered. Maybe like..................... Orlando (Little is from Florida) and played ball there too!
Could we maybe do something like Little/ Bates/ Diop/ Metu or Eubanks/ 2 2nds for Okeke/ Bidatze/ Houston type of deal?? We can switch out Metu for Watanabe to give them another ( theoretical) shooter if necessary.

Don't know about the front office but Bulls fans are encouraged by Williams growth this year. They don't have any delusions about his potential anymore so now as a role player they're content if he can just be solid. His value probably is not close to Caruso, probably not even a first rounder but given his age (like 22 I think) there isnt much reason for them to trade him.

Bitadze would be a sneaky get. He is actually better than two of the guys in the rotation ahead of him (Mo Wagner and WCJ) but the Magic, or at least the coaching staff, have not realized that yet .

Bitazde was not half bad in Indy prior to the Magic - when he got proper playing time. I also think he would be a very nice get from the Magic. Not sure what we have to offer that is valuable to them to be honest... But maybe they give him away as their frontcourt is so loaded (especially at 4/5).