2023-2024 Regular Season Game 47: Orlando Magic (24-22) at Dallas Mavericks (25-21) - 8:30pm

[SOUL]

Good perspective to always remember despite the frustration. I swear we take these losses harder than the players especially me these past couple of games (Wendell laughing on the bench still irks me lol).

Well said SOUL.

I figure if Lions fans who are depressed, even after a great season aren't happy, then most fans will never be. It's always chasing that rush of winning a championship or bust at the end of the day. We clearly aren't good enough for that, so at least we have some young stars to look forward to the next 5-6 years.

Still gonna call out/warn trolls though.. and let me reiterate to posters that as long as I notice you're a semi-regular poster who takes part in different kinds of discussions around the forum or in GTs.. you're fine. IDGAF if you're negative on the team, coach, players, as long as you're consistent in your posting... i.e. pepe the past 5 years. We can have a debate and back and forth and it's all good. Many of us change our minds on the daily. However, if you use this place as a place to agenda post, pop up to antagonize or stir the nest whenever we lose but never post any other time besides to belabor a specific point, then that shows me you use this place as your personal echo chamber and nothing else. There's a lot of Magic socials that can foster those opinions, but people just popping in here to say the same stuff and leave for 3-4 games at a time if we're doing well and then pop in again to **** on Suggs, Mose, Paolo, anybody really when they struggle, it's a tiring act.

[thelead]

I keep looking back to the Cavs in the 20-21 season.

They weren't a contender and only went 22-50 that year, but when the opportunity arose they swung a deal and got Jarrett Allen who they then resigned 5 years, 100M that offseason. Then with Allen in place to go with Garland, they draft Mobley and acquire Markkanen that offseason via trade. Then that following trade deadline they get LeVert. Then the following offseason they flip Markkanen and Sexton and picks for Mitchell.

Every opportunity the Cavs had to upgrade their roster, in-season in 20-21, the summer of 2021, in-season 21-22 and the summer of 2022, they jumped at them all and built a team around their high lotto picks Garland and Mobley (and Okoro).

There isn't a trade that the Magic can make right now with the players who are rumored to be available that will dramatically alter the Magic's fortunes THIS season (although the right trade could solidify them as the 7 seed which would mean two chances at home to win one game), but that isn't the point.

The point is acquiring someone either under contract for the next few years, or someone you're absolutely willing to resign this summer if they're heading into free agency that will positively impact your situation next year and beyond.

Free agency is pretty dead. If the Magic want to improve the talent level of the team for next season and beyond, it's going to very likely going to come via trades and right now they're loaded with easy to move contracts, several of which they won't have six months from now.

We need to stop torturing ourselves. Fultz was the biggest 'buying' trade Weltman has made for us in his 7 year tenure.

Dude even sells 2nd rd picks like candy.

[ibraheim718]

What if Donovan Mitchell leaves in two years? Are you still going to call Cavs player movement a success?

You have to call it a success because of the opportunities.. they're making the playoffs year in and year out so far with Mitchell.

And not winning it all?

Making the playoffs is a success.. especially in Cleveland. Mitchell is also still there.. the season also isn't over yet and he's got another year left.. W W W.

[MasterGMer]

What if Donovan Mitchell leaves in two years? Are you still going to call Cavs player movement a success?

Of course it will be a success because they'll have had Mitchell for at least three years which means three playoff runs. If the alternative was not making the playoffs at all, or barely getting into the play in, then of course it was worth doing.

People get too lost in the sauce of having a core group of guys locked up for 5-7 years and that basically never happens with any team. Players are too empowered and player movement is too fluid to be concerned with keeping a group together for more than half a decade.

If Mitchell is willing to ride it out all the way to free agency and then walk to the Knicks or Nets or Heat, more power to him.

In the meantime the Cavs are going to keep winning lots of games while he's there and one of their younger guys like Garland and Mobley might be better positioned to take over and be the man if Mitchell walks anyway if they've gotten to experience several years of the playoffs.

Is that right? Maybe we shouldn't trade Vuc and AG and have some playoff success with them while not winning it all?

It is about winning a Championship, isn't it? Isn't that what 76ers are built and going to be built to do? Isn't that Bucks hired Doc Rivers?

Isn't Celtics are not done improving the roster? Isn't it that the Lakers wanted Dejounte Murray? And Suns got Bradley Beal?

If Cleveland didn't win it and is not going to win it with Donovan Mitchell, that is NOT success. And it is never going to be

[ibraheim718]

Can someone tell me about WCJ flagrant foul when the team was up 1? I was following the gamecast.

[SOUL]

They were only running out of gas because of winning so many in a row.. it would've leveled out a little.

Playing that line up was a better investment for the future.

I think the issue is that people want us to play younger guys but aren't going to be happy with the results of that. If we can play Jett/AB/Goga etc a bunch of 20-23 year olds a lot of minutes and win, it's good, but it's a hard ask. It seems appealing right now because we're kind of forced to do that a lot because half of our roster is injured all of the time. We're very young even without playing Jett.

Another issue is that our veterans that can impact the game more are not reliable at all, so there's differing philosophies on how competitive we actually want to be versus focusing on more development.

I think it starts with just trading the unreliable players. Guys like Gary, Fultz, WCJ if he nets a good return. Isaac is tough because he impacts the game unlike any other but is so damn injury prone.

[thelead]

What if Donovan Mitchell leaves in two years? Are you still going to call Cavs player movement a success?

Of course it will be a success because they'll have had Mitchell for at least three years which means three playoff runs. If the alternative was not making the playoffs at all, or barely getting into the play in, then of course it was worth doing.

People get too lost in the sauce of having a core group of guys locked up for 5-7 years and that basically never happens with any team. Players are too empowered and player movement is too fluid to be concerned with keeping a group together for more than half a decade.

If Mitchell is willing to ride it out all the way to free agency and then walk to the Knicks or Nets or Heat, more power to him.

In the meantime the Cavs are going to keep winning lots of games while he's there and one of their younger guys like Garland and Mobley might be better positioned to take over and be the man if Mitchell walks anyway if they've gotten to experience several years of the playoffs.

Is that right? Maybe we shouldn't trade Vuc and AG and have some playoff success with them while not winning it all?

It is about winning a Championship, isn't it? Isn't that what 76ers are built and going to be built to do? Isn't that Bucks hired Doc Rivers?

Isn't Celtics are not done improving the roster? Isn't it that the Lakers wanted Dejounte Murray? And Suns got Bradley Beal?

If Cleveland didn't win it and is not going to win it with Donovan Mitchell, that is NOT success. And it is never going to be

I think putting yourself in the best position to win a championship is success. There are so many things you can't control, building a championship contender is something they have tried to do and look to be close to it. Injuries happen. Bad calls happen. Championships are never guaranteed, regardless of roster.

We were barely a playoff team with Vuc. That doesn't compare.

They took a shot on a legit all-star and it's working out well for them and they still have time to get better.

[Knightro]

Is that right? Maybe we shouldn't trade Vuc and AG and have some playoff success with them while not winning it all?

It is about winning a Championship, isn't it? Isn't that what 76ers are built and going to be built to do? Isn't that Bucks hired Doc Rivers?

Isn't Celtics are not done improving the roster? Isn't it that the Lakers wanted Dejounte Murray? And Suns got Bradley Beal?

If Cleveland didn't win it and is not going to win it with Donovan Mitchell, that is NOT success. And it is never going to be

Only one team wins a championship every year, but that doesn't mean the other 29 teams failed. There's different degrees to this stuff.

Like the Vucevic/Gordon led Magic made the 7th seed once and the 8th seed once. They maxed out at 42 wins.

The Cavs won 51 games last year and were a 4 seed. They're on pace to win more than 51 this year and they're only 1 game back of being the 2 seed currently. Is this season a failure for them if they go to the 2nd round and lose a competitive series in 7 to Boston? Certainly not.

[Knightro]

Can someone tell me about WCJ flagrant foul when the team was up 1? I was following the gamecast.

Lively got the ball right under the basket and Cole karate chopped him on the arm. Carter, who was on the ground and got up, jumped up and smashed Lively right in the face with his elbow. Unintentional, but he blasted Lively really good and drew blood.

So two shots for the Cole foul because Dallas was in the bonus. Another two shots and the ball for the Carter flagrant on top of it.

[Black and Blue]

You have to call it a success because of the opportunities.. they're making the playoffs year in and year out so far with Mitchell.

And not winning it all?

Making the playoffs is a success.. especially in Cleveland. Mitchell is also still there.. the season also isn't over yet and he's got another year left.. W W W.

And I’ll add in another thing that is lost on Magic fans because it’s been a bit. By making these moves the Cavs broadcast themselves as a team willing to make big swings to upgrade their team. That matters a whole lot. Stars don’t want to go to teams where they are forced to play with the Chuma Okekes of the world because the team inexplicably refuses to cut or deal them for actual NBA level talent. They want to know they will be supported and the front office will make their tenure as competitive as possible.

I think people underplay Orlando’s reputation in the league right now as a place where they need Jonathan Isaac’s contract to meet the salary floor. Winning definitely cures a heck of a lot, but eventually organizations also need to act like they feel some urgency to take a leap.

[MasterGMer]

Is that right? Maybe we shouldn't trade Vuc and AG and have some playoff success with them while not winning it all?

It is about winning a Championship, isn't it? Isn't that what 76ers are built and going to be built to do? Isn't that Bucks hired Doc Rivers?

Isn't Celtics are not done improving the roster? Isn't it that the Lakers wanted Dejounte Murray? And Suns got Bradley Beal?

If Cleveland didn't win it and is not going to win it with Donovan Mitchell, that is NOT success. And it is never going to be

Only one team wins a championship every year, but that doesn't mean the other 29 teams failed. There's different degrees to this stuff.

Like the Vucevic/Gordon led Magic made the 7th seed once and the 8th seed once. They maxed out at 42 wins.

The Cavs won 51 games last year and were a 4 seed. They're on pace to win more than 51 this year and they're only 1 game back of being the 2 seed currently. Is this season a failure for them if they go to the 2nd round and lose a competitive series in 7 to Boston? Certainly not.

Isn't that exactly what mediocre means in the NBA? I know to a different degree when compared to the 8th seed Magic team.

If they are in contention, yes, keep it up. But what if they lost in the playoffs 1st round and 2nd round year in year out? I also think if that is what Embiid ends up with 76ers, he is out in Philly. Isn't that the same logic why LeBron left Cleveland and had the decision on TV? Even Cleveland made it to the Conference Finals several times? Isn't that Miami Heat wanted to trade Herro bad and get Lillard because they are just not satisfied being in the NBA Finals?

Every teams' whole master plan is to build a team in contention and win a NBA Championship eventually. Anything less than that is called mediocrity and stars plus superstars are not going to be content with mediocrity, especially players like Lebron and Steph Curry. That is the whole reason LeBron went to Miami the first place. That is also the reason KD joined 73 win Warriors team, because he wanted to win a title.

Let me end with this. just going to the playoff in this league is not 100% a success (maybe depending on the building process, like for Magic this season, going to the playoff is going to be a success, but the whole ultimate goal of this rebuild and build is to win it all, agree?)

Teams like Cleveland, traded so much for Donovan Mitchell, its ultimate goal is to win the title eventually. They certainly can do that. But I am going back to my original question, what if they do not and Donovan Mitchell becomes an UFA?

[Knightro]

Teams like Cleveland, traded so much for Donovan Mitchell, its ultimate goal is to win the title eventually. They certainly can do that. But I am going back to my original question, what if they do not and Donovan Mitchell becomes an UFA?

Literally nothing changes?

If Mitchell takes it all the way to free agency and leaves, the Cavs will still have a very good core of Garland, Allen, Mobley + all the ancillary pieces like Okoro and Strus under contract and all of those guys will have gotten valuable playoff experience thanks to three years and three playoff runs with Mitchell that they otherwise likely wouldn't have gotten without him.

[thelead]

Teams like Cleveland, traded so much for Donovan Mitchell, its ultimate goal is to win the title eventually. They certainly can do that. But I am going back to my original question, what if they do not and Donovan Mitchell becomes an UFA?

Literally nothing changes?

If Mitchell takes it all the way to free agency and leaves, the Cavs will still have a very good core of Garland, Allen, Mobley + all the ancillary pieces like Okoro and Strus under contract and all of those guys will have gotten valuable playoff experience thanks to three years and three playoff runs with Mitchell that they otherwise likely wouldn't have gotten without him.

Not to mention the assets (however minor they may be) they’d likely get back in the S&T to move Mitchell along.

[eyriq]

If we get above 50 wins with a sustainable build that's really all I can ask for. I'll then enjoy nitpicking about all the details that put champions over the edge, all the while appreciating the build and the fact that we are in contention.

[DiplomaticMagic]

Very predictable game, disgusting 3rd qtr.

I really dont understand what the **** we are doing with Isaac.

[cedric76]

JI is a beast, that starting lineup was awesome

Franz at SG is such a mismatch

Go Magic

[paperboymafia]

Why did JI only play 8 minutes after starting? Is it serious?

[pepe1991]

Pretty much same game as yesterday just in reverse. Instad of being down and winning, we were winning and lost.

Doncic aslo tied another record, if anybody still counts, as it's only done 5th time that player has 45 points and 15 asists.

I really don't find much enjoyment in watching mindless run&gun like it'a allstar game.
Dallas shot 61% FG, 48% for 3.

[KillMonger]

The thing that sucks the most is that the commissioner of the whole damn league basically said that the science behind load management isn't conclusive.....but here we are....damn near half the season is over and you got mose after the game saying playing JI 8 minutes was "precautionary"......FML

[drsd]

Friggin Allstar game boxscore here.

Box score thoughts:

Orlando lost the FG% battle (badly) and lost the game (barely).

The Magic won the TO differential battle.
The Magic dominated the offensive rebounding battle.

Those, combined with the ridiculous FT stat line for Dallas, led the the Magic taking 19 more FGs.

Not sure what to say on this loss, except: foul less.